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Unread 02-21-2011, 06:07 AM   #61
BioTex
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Been doing some thinking about the Wheel Base dilema.

My CJ has something like a 91" W.B.

The CJ10 has an 86". If I swap the rear springs around and flip them, I gain 1".

So, how bad would it be to wheel an 87" WB.? It would sure make the build easier to not have to extend the frame. Besides, just think of the tight turning radius. A lot of times when I'm out exploring new areas, I get in a narrow canyon and have to turn around to get out. What drwabacks are there to such a short wheel base? Only at higher speeds correct?

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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
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Unread 02-21-2011, 06:08 AM   #62
DeViOuS_CJ5
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this should be a swee build...and thats a clean tub you got ...nothing in that shape around me...you guys down in the south got it made with good clean steel
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Unread 02-21-2011, 09:03 AM   #63
h2ojeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
Been doing some thinking about the Wheel Base dilema.

My CJ has something like a 91" W.B.

The CJ10 has an 86". If I swap the rear springs around and flip them, I gain 1".

So, how bad would it be to wheel an 87" WB.? It would sure make the build easier to not have to extend the frame. Besides, just think of the tight turning radius. A lot of times when I'm out exploring new areas, I get in a narrow canyon and have to turn around to get out. What drwabacks are there to such a short wheel base? Only at higher speeds correct?
Jeep cj5s had a 81 and 84 in wheel base so with 86 in, you are already longer than the 5s.

Couple of things to consider:
As it will also be a DD, (as you note) a longer wheel base will be more stable at higher speeds (above 50mph).

The CJ10a, with the longer configuration that you have with the TM&TFcase resulting in the short 12-14(??) inch drive shaft, I would think any length in the frame and DS will be welcome. Especially when you consider the lift from the 35in tires, the lift that may be in the waggy springs, and articulation that you will experience with off road use.

To complete the comparison, say to the CJ5, even though it has a shorter wheel base than the CJ10a, it still has a longer Drive shaft.

How exactly long is the CJ10as Drive shaft?
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Unread 02-21-2011, 07:02 PM   #64
BioTex
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Today I took the tub off the waggoneer, so I can compare the frames easier.
Seems that at both the front and the rear, the axle doesnt sit dead center of the arch in the prings. One side is 4" longer at the rear springs, and 2" at the front.

I see no reaso why I cant swap and reverse the springs to gain 6".
The rear will be easy, but the front means I have to relocate the shock towers. Don't know about the rest of the steering linkage yet, but hopefully it will work out. At least I can gain 4" at the rear, so I will end up with a 4' long bed.

In the picture, the waggy frame is the front one:
frames-comparison-001.jpg  
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
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Unread 02-22-2011, 05:25 AM   #65
BioTex
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Anyone know which T-case would be better:

The NP208 or the NP229? What are the differences?
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 02-25-2011, 10:02 AM   #66
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hey Tex, this just popped up here today, so I thought I would share and perhaps provide a bit of inspiration (not that you need any)

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2233280475.html

and FWIW, the 208 is a great t-case...



Hoss
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Unread 02-25-2011, 10:11 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
Anyone know which T-case would be better:

The NP208 or the NP229? What are the differences?
I like the NP208. The NP229 (Selec Trac) in 4WD high is more like an AWD as it allows use on dry pavement. It locks the front and rear together only in 4Low.

The NP208 is a true part-time 4WD tcase that locks the front and rear together in 4high and 4low.

No goofy vacuum hookups with the NP208 either.
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Unread 02-25-2011, 10:35 AM   #68
John N
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I was going to use a 208 in mine before I decided I had too many projects and sold it.
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Unread 02-25-2011, 10:39 AM   #69
Jim1611
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Eric I'd go with the 208.
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Unread 02-25-2011, 11:02 AM   #70
BioTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoonHoss View Post
hey Tex, this just popped up here today, so I thought I would share and perhaps provide a bit of inspiration (not that you need any)

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2233280475.html

and FWIW, the 208 is a great t-case...



Hoss
That is actually a pretty good price for a ready to go rig like that.
If you add up the cost of the individual parts, it would be way more, but that is the way it goes.
Thanks for the post !
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 02-25-2011, 11:13 AM   #71
BioTex
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So it seems the 208 wins! I have the floor shifter from the Waggy, and could modifying it to work with the 208 easy enough. I could bend the handle up to shift like a normal stick shifter.

I don't really want my CJ to shift like a Waggy though. I never did like that look. Too much like an SUV!

The shift lever on a 208 is on the left side of the tunnel, and I'm not sure how hard it would be to fabricate some linkage so I can mount the shifter in the stock location.

Anybody use a D20 shifter and modify it to shift a 208? I'd be interested in some ideas. I'm fairly new to fabricating parts.

Oh Jim.....
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 02-26-2011, 02:28 PM   #72
Jim1611
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Eric I was working on a stand for my bender today and I guess it was guilt that set in. Almost half the day I was thinking about fabbed bender parts. I'll get busy, you'll be needing those soon.

I can't wait to see this rig taking form too!!
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Unread 02-26-2011, 06:15 PM   #73
BioTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1611 View Post
Eric I was working on a stand for my bender today and I guess it was guilt that set in. Almost half the day I was thinking about fabbed bender parts. I'll get busy, you'll be needing those soon.

I can't wait to see this rig taking form too!!
No problems here Jim. I am not in a hurry. Sun. I will be swapping in the new axles ( I hope).
I'll start with the front so I can get the cab mounted sooner.
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 02-27-2011, 04:57 PM   #74
BioTex
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Got some progress made today!

I removed the front axles from my parts waggy and the CJ10-A. I was able to get them reinstalled with no issues. The parts waggy had new springs under it, and I measured them to my surprise they are 2" lifted over stock.

Since the springs were new, and lifted, the shocks and brake lines on it were new also. Those got transfered over as well. There was no dropped pittman arm, so I will most likely have to purchase one later. For now I just went with it.

So now that the fron axle is in, I could see if there were any issues with the front driveshaft hitting anything. It was dangerously close to the tranny cross member, so insted of notching it, I decided to lift the tranny at the mount 1". I can easily do this using the waggy crossmember, since it does it by design. Seems the tug crossmember and tranny mount is slightly different, and it causes the tranny to sit a bit lower.

Just to make sure the 1" lift doesn't cause any problems with the top of the case hitting the crossmember on top of the frame, I notched 1/4" out of it. (see picture). On the waggy, this crossmember sits farther back, but on the shorter WB. tug, it is closer to the TC.

This will give me 1" more cround clearance at the crossmember, and there is no fab work. just 8 bolts.

This is a good reason to purchase a parts waggy for this project. It makes the job much easier and cheaper in the end.

I also pulled the np198 out of the tug, so I can convert it into a shiftable TC.
I have the parts to do this, and it will be a full days job for me, since I have never had one apart before.
The 198 is basically a 208, so not too hard I hope.
front-axle-swap-001.jpg   front-axle-swap-002.jpg   front-axle-swap-003.jpg   front-axle-swap-006.jpg   front-axle-swap-007.jpg  

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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 02-28-2011, 06:27 PM   #75
BioTex
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Took both axles out today! Man that's a lot of work by myself...

I am looking into flipping the rear springs so I gain 5 or 6 inches of wheelbase.
Looks doable. My only concern is that the larger spring eye will be on the rear instead of the front. Not sure just exactly what problems that can cause, but guess I'll find out soon enough. It might have been better to just redrill the center aligning hole, and I thought about it, but I don't think I'd be able to drill such hard metal.
I've never heard of anyone doing that, so it must not be a good idea.

I should have the Waggy rear axle back under the tug frame in another couple hours of work. Then will come the fun part of putting on the cab.
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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