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mvigo's '85 CJ7 resto/build saga

57K views 420 replies 34 participants last post by  mvigo 
#1 ·
Very slowly, and I mean S-L-O-W-L-Y, am I starting to document upgrades/repairs and, eventually, maybe 1 day, a full frame off. All of the upgrades/repairs will be done with the idea that if/when I get to the frame off, the upgrades/repairs make the frame off restoration more efficient.

My hope is that you the reader might help ME correct any mistakes I might make as I discuss any upgrades/repairs and/or my thought process helps YOU with a decision or thought process that you are having a tough time with.

JeepForum has been a fantastic resource for me since I joined and I have many of you to thank; whether you know it or not (Jim1611, Ken4444, 243, Coiz, JeepHammer, Exposed, MoC, ASteve, Skerr, SonicR1, Keith460, boomvader, Mike Romain, John Strenk, cshutchinson, FatMan to name a few). A couple of you I have met, a handful of you I converse with via phone/email, a few I have bought/sold/traded parts from/to/with and a whole bunch of you I admire from afar for the skills you have. As creepy as this sounds I may not have met or talked to you but I feel like I know you. The internet will be big one day, trust me!

A quick history. In 1997, I bought a 1985 CJ7 from the 2nd owner...bone stock, a hardtop that had never been off, a few goodies (winch, CB radio, tow bar) and only 32k original miles. She was originally sold off the lot in Billings, MT and I bought her from my Uncle's hunting pal in Truckee, CA. I searched for 3 years before I found her and it was worth the wait. She came with the I-6, T-5, Dana 300, AMC 20, Dana 30, 3.08 gears with 31" Bridgestone Mud Duellers. I drove it that way for 6 years until I had finally made up my mind what exactly I wanted out of her. Here is a picture after I first brought her home:
 

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#2 ·
In 2003, I began the transformation to a more dependable, daily driver that could also get me to the trail or hunting spot and back. MOPAR fuel injection, Rubicon Express Extreme Duty 2.5" lift, 1" body lift, 3.73 gears, Detroit Truetrac front and rear, 1 piece axles in rear, 32" Cooper STT's, Crabtree shackle hangers, Teraflex 4:1 low gear set, CV rear drive shaft, Tuffy console and rear cargo trunk, Max-Bilt fuel skid plate (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-installed-max-bilt-fuel-tank-skid-20-gal-tank-1067793/), on board air (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/viair-oba-system-install-w-pics-1071181/), dual battery setup, Superwinch EPi 9.0 w/synthetic rope, Warn bumpers and rock sliders, Hurst shifter, Line-X'd inside of tub, headlight relay upgrade, upgraded winch and starter motor wiring, Blazer motor heater upgrade, waterproofed axles/hubs, Corbeau Moab seats. Some of these mods I did myself with the help of all of you and others I outsourced to a mechanic friend who shares a love of Jeeps. Here is how she sits now:
 

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#3 ·
All of the upgrades/repairs I have done thus far have met my expectations. I truly have a very capable CJ that has yielded loads of fun with my family. I can get to and from work, to and from any hunting spot, I have run the Fordyce Trail at the 2010 Sierra Trek and each summer I go into the Rubicon via Lake Tahoe for a picnic with my kids and a few other families. I take care of her but I don't baby her, she does get used. My oldest daughter is about to get her license and loves to drive her, so I plan on installing a roll cage, upgrading the braking since the M/C is crapping out, modifying my Warn rear tire carrier to accomodate a Hi-Lift jack, taking care of minor, cosmetic rust spots and rattle can painting the hood. As I go through this initial list of upgrades/repairs please feel free to comment as you see fit and especially if you think there is a better way. I hope I can take pictures and document like some of you. Here are 2 threads I started awhile back documenting a few upgrades/add ons:

Viair OBA system:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/viair-oba-system-install-w-pics-1071181/

Max-Bilt 20 gal fuel tank skid plate:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-installed-max-bilt-fuel-tank-skid-20-gal-tank-1067793/

Thanks for looking...
 
#9 ·
she gets her license next month...the 1st car I drove was a '68 VW Bug. Drove the heck out of that for 10 years...

Subscribed, but forget the resto, I just want the list of what you have already done so I can mimic. :) looks great.
The list is in my sig, my profile and I did my best to list it in the 2nd post. If you want the full details, ping me, and I will be happy to send them to you. Unless you or others think it is worth listing on a post here.
 
#5 ·
You have a tremendous start! I'm staring at rust and leaks in the garage right now. I'm in, and looking forward to LOTS of pictures! :thumbsup:
 
#8 ·
Great question. I have searched for the paint code on the firewall and can't find it. In the coming weeks when I upgrade my brakes I hope to have an easier time finding that tag. The hood has oxidized to the point where I don't want it to degrade any further to bare metal so one of the 1st things I plan on doing for now is to rattle can the hood to match the rest of the body as best I can. If there are suggestions out there on how to do it, I am all ears.
 
#11 ·
This may help if it's an original paint color. It could be ice blue metallic 4C or adriatic blue pearl metallic 4L.
http://www.paintscratch.com/touch_up_paint/Jeep/1985-Jeep-Other-Models.html

It's close to slate blue. What I like about slate blue is that it's hue changes based on the light available and it even looks good when dirty. Here's an old pic but it shows some different hues from front to side.
 
#12 ·
This may help if it's an original paint color. It could be ice blue metallic 4C or adriatic blue pearl metallic 4L.
It is the original color...I will get this question of the paint code answered shortly! At some point, when I do go through the full resto and repaint, I will definately be keeping the same, original color. Locally, I am the only blue CJ in the area and that is how people recognize me...
 
#14 ·
Man hows a guy supposed to be first on a build thread when you stay up half the night!!:D

I'll be subscribing and watching. We want action shots of the wheeling trips too buddy, something those of us with ours tore in pieces dream of :laugh:. I love that picture of when you first bought it too Mike! Just think of all the great memories you've got and those yet to be made.
 
#15 ·
Looks better in person!!! Especially when trying to keep up with it!!! Glad you started a thread! Let me know when you start working on it, maybe I'll zip over for a couple hours!

 
#17 ·
OK, first order of business is to finally address a place to permanently store my Hi-Lift jack. I have the Warn Rockcrawler bumpers front and rear with the Warn tire carrier. Looks and function were exactly as advertised until I realized that I couldn't use the tire carrier for any storage as Warn didn't offer any accessories to accomplish that feat. When I called them and asked why they said their tire carriers were only engineered to carry the weight of a spare tire up to 150 lbs. and no more. So, for all these years I have stored the jack on the floor between the front and back seats and anyone sitting back there would have to maneuver around it. Awake in bed one night brainstorming about how to utilize the tire carrier without putting anymore weight on it a solution finally occured to me! :idea: Why not weld in a couple of vertical braces to a horizontal brace and have the Hi-Lift sit on top of the horizontal brace. First the tire carrier:



My solution:



I am even able to secure a shovel to the extra vertical bars via Quick Fist clamps and since the weight of the Hi-Lift jack will be sitting on top of the horizontal bar and not hanging from it I figure the extra weight shouldn't put too much undue pressure on the hinge pin. I am not an engineer but that is how I am thinking. If anyone disagrees, let's hear it.



The shovel would be positioned on the other side between the tire carrier and the back window.

Today I cut out the pieces, grinded away the paint on the carrier and welded in the "T" into the horizontal bar:





So, the "T" acts as a sleeve and slips into the center tire carrier post. I will then weld that piece to the post as well as drill some 1/2" holes and weld some rossette welds into the sleeve and post itself like this:



Thanks to Jim1611 for that little tidbit. I truly believe this solution will solve my problem of storing my jack in a very secure, stable way.

As I am thinking ahead and before I weld it all up, I have a couple of questions to throw out to you guys. 1) How should I finish the tire carrier once completed? with POR-15, spray paint? something else? and 2) Is my thought process wrong in terms of the engineering side of things?

Thanks...
 
#19 ·
Your swing out add on is looking good Mike. You sure aint wasting any time getting started either, I have to get an idea then languish for at least a week. :)

Looks plenty strong too. You're not adding that much weight to adversely affect things. Finish....what do you have on hand? POR would be good if you have it and then topcoat but I hear great things about the Hammered Rustoleum too.
 
#21 ·
"the Hi-Lift jack will be sitting on top of the horizontal bar and not hanging from it I figure the extra weight shouldn't put too much undue pressure on the hinge pin. I am not an engineer but that is how I am thinking. If anyone disagrees, let's hear it."

I'm not officially an engineer, but I engineer homes for a living. So I understand load transfer pretty well. I do disagree but still don't see a problem doing it as you have done. Whether it's sitting on top of the bar or hanging off the side makes a difference that is negligible. The higher you go the more leverage you add obviously, but any weight above it's support is transferred back to it's support. So the force (vertical or lateral) exerted on the pivot is the same whether it's hanging open 3" or completely open to the rear or passenger side. Only when that carrier is in it's latched position does it share support with the latch side and cut that weight nearly in half at the pivot side. Otherwise all the force, beit from leverage or material weight, is distributed back to it's only means of support.
As for the 150# limit, that's not a make or break point. There's always a safety factor figured in, sometimes as high as 8, when designing limits. So that pivot can probably take at least 300-450#s but they don't want you pushing the limits, for both safety and liability. So that extra 30# jack is not going to break the carrier, as long as it's securely fastened to eliminate any vibration wear.
I have a similar tire carrier from Smittybilt and I plan on making a mount that holds the Hi-Lift base on the bottom horizontal tube and angles towards the top of the center vertical bar. Hopefully it will clear the back of the tire. I haven't tried it with the tire mounted yet.
 
#22 ·
Also not an engineer, and can almost guarantee I don't understand all the forces at work to the level you do.

I was operating on the assumption (and maybe mvigo too) that the only force we need to be concerned about with the spindle is lateral force, not vertical force...maybe this is wrong thinking, but couldn't you set an incredibly hefty weight (say 1000#) directly on top of the spindle without worrying about undue wear or breakage? If the same weight were applied further down the arm of the swing out, toward the latch, I would only be concerned about undue wear or breakage when the swing arm was open (either 3", or all the way, as you said, doesn't matter), because closed there would only be a vertical force on the spindle, whereas opening it introduces a lateral force. Now if the same weight was re-positioned again to hang off the side of the carrier, like the tire does, that would concern me because it causes a constant lateral force on the spindle, whether open or closed. So given a choice of the three of these options, directly above the spindle is best, above the swing arm is second best, and hanging off the side will cause the most wear and tear.

Does this sound right?
 
#23 ·
Yes and to a much lesser degree no. There are 2 things you have to consider. The pivot spindle isn't really receiving much vertical pressure because it's not a solid connection bearing down. It's most likely got ball bearings transferring any force between the carrier itself and the spindle along it's side. If it were just downward pressure from one to the other then it would be a simple gravity transfer straight down. Now some of the weight may be, I don't know the design of that particular spindle. Point is that it's still becoming a lateral load to the spindle. (Unless contact is made on top or bottom but it looks like it wraps around the spindle)
Now that may not make complete sense but you have to also consider this. Imagine the Jeep wasn't there, you just have the horiz. bumper with a vertical spindle. The carrier attaches to the spindle. Now if you spin that carrier anywhere in the 360* circle, it's force transferred to the spindle is the same, a levered lateral load, even when over the bumper. So the leverage your thinking of is always there. Now if we add the latch stop/ support at the other end of the bumper, then when it swings over that point of support, roughly half that weight gets supported now at the far end of the carrier and any leveraged lateral load now becomes a vertical gravity load to that end.

I'm probably not making much sense since I can't use hand gestures and doodles on paper. My intent in my original post was to not worry about adding a slight bit of weight to the top or side because either way it's pretty much all levered lateral load when open and a minuscule amount when closed. I was splitting hairs to explain why he shouldn't be too concerned if it's on top or off the side of his horiz. top bar.

I see your from Bellefonte. Small world. Did you happen to go to that "No Roads" event that EVOR did over at Penn's Cave last November?
 
#25 ·
Ahh, that makes it clearer actually...even without doodles. Sounds like I was over-simplifying the concept of "vertical" pressure on the spindle. Same conclusion either way I suppose, a 30# jack isn't going to change all that much no matter where it is mounted.

Yes, small world. I really wanted to attend the No Roads event but had a work function same weekend so missed out. Couple more events coming up I might try to make it to though...Go Topless at Rausch Creek on 19 May and Spring Thaw at Doe Valley on 19-20 May. Do you get out and wheel much? I think a plan is in the works for some guys to go on a 21 Apr trail ride in Houtzdale, a little far for you but you would be welcome, I need a cj buddy as they all have other models. You can find us here if interested in going out sometime ( http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f352/state-college-penn-state-bellefonte-boalsburg-areas-1323215/ )

Sorry mvigo for straying off topic! Back to your jeep in your thread now, I promise.
 
#24 ·
So what if it breaks you look to have the means to fix it. I personally don't think it will. But anything is possible. Warn builds some pretty stout stuff. Looks great!
As for coatings Por 15, Hammered textured paint, powder coating or some type of bed lining coating all great choices.
Great looking CJ! Something to be proud of.
I'm also interested in the paint code.
 
#26 ·
Renegade82...I understand what you mean and can even picture the "hand talking"...

takirc02...I was thinking what you were thinking in terms of what I thought was the downward pressure.

I finished welding up the tire carrier today and it came out like this:



I am not that strong but can carry it around fairly easy so it, along with the jack, shovel and tire mounted to the carrier shouldn't pose any problems, especially after understanding Renegade82's point(s). Here is a shot with the tire mounted and jack resting on it:



I called Warn to ask them how they finish their products...all powder coated...the person I spoke to thought that if I just primed and rattle can painted with a semi gloss black I should do OK. So I stopped by the auto body supply shop near me and bought the goods to paint the carrier. I also bought some threaded 1/2" rod that I will cut down, thread into and all the way down to the bottom of that bar and then either weld or JB Weld the rod to the bar, both on the inside and outside. The 2 pieces that I will do is what the Hi-Lift jack will rest on, secured by nylon bolts so that don't vibrate off. Again, if you see a better idea out there, holler. I still am not 100% sure that is the way to go..

While I was at the auto body supply shop I looked at some PPG paint code catalogs and, looking at the small 1/2" x 1" paint swatch for a 1985 Jeep I am guessing that my color is Ice Blue Poly, paint code 4C, PPG #3624. They can mix that up for me in a rattle can so that I can spray my hood. $28/can and they think 2-3 cans should cover the hood. Can't put hardeners in the rattle can so I need to buy clearcoat spray paint to go over the color for another $28/can. Seems a little high priced but it should get me by until I eventually do the frame off restoration. I am upgrading my brakes soon (Vanco hydroboost), so when I have the m/c and vacuum booster off I hope to find the paint tag on the firewall to confirm that code. Stay tuned...
 
#34 ·
Grinding the welds flat isn't something you have to do but it sure makes it look more finished.
Jim, besides the finished look I was also interested in how good my welds are in terms of penetration and defects. They looked pretty good...

Mvigo, I think I just get you. :) Pretty sure his idea with the threaded rod is nearly identical to renegade's idea with bolts and washers...he just plans on welding in the rod (on both top and bottom of the mount bar) so it extends vertically rather than using a bolt that could fall out and get lost when the nut is removed. Additional benefit of this plan could be a nice clean look, no bolt head and washer on the bottom side of the mount. My hijack bumper mount uses the same concept, but they are lug studs that were pressed in rather than welded.
EXACTLY! I will still use washers, lock washers, wing nuts etc...I am trying to find a 1/2' 13 course pre fabbed knob that could be used instead of wing nuts but the biggest I have been able to find thus far has been 3/8". And, my jack handle isolator from Daystar works perfectly as a rubber bushing so I plan on buying one more.

mvigo-what is the tab for that is runnig up @ a 45 deg. angle behind the round mounting plate? Did you add it or did Warn?
THX Doug
it came that way from Warn...it is meant to hit the rubber stop on the tailgate...

Didn't get any work done today, too busy with bees. I have the rest of the parts needed to complete this little project and I am hoping to finish up tomorrow.
 
#28 ·
I'm not sure if I follow you with the threaded rod but it may be the same as this thought. What if you got 2 bolts, 4 nuts, 4 flat washers, 2 lock washers, and 2 wingnuts. Drill thru, top to bottom, your top horiz. tube and stick the bolt up thru and put 2 nuts on each bolt (just to create a pillar, which may need 3 nuts to get the needed height). Then a flat washer, the jack, another flat washer, lock washer and wingnut.
That way it's easy to take on and off and theres no welding needed. Just some holes to drill.

If you didn't pick up the primer already I'd suggest a self etching primer for a better hold on the new metal.

takirc02 - I won't hijack his thread, but since I'm posting... No, I didn't make the No Roads event. Sounds like it would have been fun. My Jeep is in pieces right now on shelves (see my build thread) and I'm hoping to have it done prior to Octobers 2nd annual No Roads event, but it may be just wishful thinking. I haven't wheeled much at all in the past few years. Family, work, projects, roads and trails closed, posted, or blocked, and due to my frame I haven't trusted it lately. Hoping to get back into it some once the build is complete. I'm a trail guy and that No Roads event sounds like my kind of fun.
 
#30 ·
Mvigo, I think I just get you. :) Pretty sure his idea with the threaded rod is nearly identical to renegade's idea with bolts and washers...he just plans on welding in the rod (on both top and bottom of the mount bar) so it extends vertically rather than using a bolt that could fall out and get lost when the nut is removed. Additional benefit of this plan could be a nice clean look, no bolt head and washer on the bottom side of the mount. My hijack bumper mount uses the same concept, but they are lug studs that were pressed in rather than welded.
 
#31 ·
"rather than using a bolt that could fall out and get lost when the nut is removed."

No, that's why the first 2 or 3 nuts go on. They serve 2 purposes, to keep the bolt in place with or without the jack mounted; and to put some space between the jack bar and the horiz. tubing so the rubber handle keeper fits. The lockwasher keeps the wingnut tight and the wingnut is so you don't need to dig out a wrench.
 
#35 ·
I was able to finish up the fab part of the tire carrier. I cut down my threaded rod to 4 1/4" length, dropped it in the 1/2" hole I drilled, welded it on the inside of the square tubing as well as the top of the horizontal bar and I believe it is going nowhere. The picture shows the Hi Lift jack mounted to the tire carrier. I also drilled the holes I will need to attach the Quick Fist clamps for the shovel. I roughed the surface up with red scotch brite and applied a coat of primer sealer. I elected not to use an etch primer because I didn't want to ruin any of the powder coat finish with over spray. When I get to a complete frame off down the road, everything will get a new coat of finish anyway. For now, this should suffice. Paint and finish is all brand new to me and I figure this is an easy item to experiment with. I have read plenty of threads and watched videos but nothing compares to just doing it. Feel free to critique away, I have thick skin and that is one facet of why I started this thread to begin with, learning from you all. I also welded in a hook that will be used for my onion sack/trash bag when on the trail.

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Locking hubs Tread
 
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