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Mostly done, moving on to... body work. Question about sheet metal.

711 views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  Colt44 
#1 ·
Having done pretty much everything there was to do mechanically - which wound up being pretty much everything - and with the interior and top done, it's time to tackle the dreaded rusty spots.

Good news is no structural rust. Bad news is the typical rusted-out spots along the rocker panels aft of the door and ahead of the rear wheel wells.

There are only a couple of small areas on the passenger side, but it's worse on the driver's side.

After doing a lot of research and talking to some old hands locally, I've decided to cut out the rust patches and replace with new sheet metal using the flange and 3M panel adhesive method.

So really the question is, what do I need to use in terms of sheet metal?
Anything special about it, or can I just buy a sheet of the correct gauge at Home Depot and have at it?

Which brings a couple of related bits of info, such as what gauge do I need, and if I need a particular type of sheet metal, where to source it?

Thanks!
 
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#4 ·
I don't need to replace the entire panel, just fix a couple of rust spots. Q-Tec has those panels too, but I that's not what I need - just a patch.

I knew right off the bat people would say "weld." Let me attempt to head off all the "you oughta weld" arguments by saying this:

Aside from the fact that I'm not set up to weld, I am advised that the adhesive alternative is the best solution for my situation.
I have a good friend who is an accomplished professional welder. To establish he's not a shade-tree bubba type I'll say the he routinely welds with plain and stainless steel, aluminum, etc. and runs a pretty complete machine shop where I've seen him do both automotive and aviation projects. He also builds his own firearms from scratch and has done a lot of firearms-related aluminum welding for me (gun guys can probably guess what that is).

I asked him if he'd do the welding for me, but he turned down the job and advised me that the sheet metal is thin enough that there would probably be problems with warping, and that there would be a fair amount of grinding etc. to clean it up after welding. He said that the adhesive is plenty strong and that most body shops these days use this method because it works.
He told me flat-out that I'd be better off taking the flange tool and adhesive approach, which sounds pretty straightforward.
This fellow is the real deal and he's never steered me wrong, so that's the way I'm going to proceed.

Now I know the first reply will probably be somebody telling me I'm a fool for using glue when I could do the manly thing and weld, so fine, go ahead.

But whether or not to weld was not the question - it's what gauge and type of steel to use.
I've done a little research and it seems 18 gauge is most likely. Is that correct, and if so, will plain mild (non-galvanized) steel work?

[ETA] Not trying to pick a fight here, please. I am not set up to weld nor do I know how. In this situation I have some perfectly flat panels to repair so the adhesive method looks like a straightforward no-brainer. This is a CJ, not a vintage Mercedes and most of the patches will be behind the Renegade decals anyway.
Advice and constructive criticism is always appreciated, but I do not want to get into a debate over the issue of welding vs adhesive.
 
#5 ·
I've noticed some of the listed sizes for metal at HD is incorrect (invariably Chinese). I'd be worried the same may hold true with their sheet products. I'd rec you hit up a local metal shop for what you need.
 
#6 ·
OK, heart set on adhesive, you will have to let us know how it works. As far as the patch material goes, I can't give you any definitive answers, but one suggestion: Buy one replacement panel and cut it up into all the patches you need. That would ensure it is the correct alloy and thickness.

That is what I did as a stopgap on my CJ, except I welded (once I got started I found evidence of a previous collision repair that doomed any chance of this being a permanent repair). The flange tool also has a punch on the other side of the head used to punch holes through the patch. This allows the patch to be secured with spot welds instead of a somewhat more complex stitch weld pattern approach. You may want to use that punch tool to make some holes so the adhesive can "bleed through" the panel and make a mechanical lock. It will all be covered by Bondo anyway.
 

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#7 ·
I weld bodies, not because it is the "manly thing", but in my opinion, the right way to permanently join two pieces of metal.
Sure there is some warping and grinding, but it is manageable with the right tools.

You seem stuck on gluing, so be it.

I would not buy steel from Home Depot for any serious purpose.
The steel originally used on CJs was primarily 18 gauge, but some items are 16 too.

You can buy the correct stuff from Speedy Metals and have them send it to you by UPS.
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2684-8244-00478-cold-rolled-steel-sheet.aspx

Perhaps since you are gluing, you could even use the galvanized stuff.
 
#8 ·
I am one who prefers welding, but I am very open to adhesives especially since they work so well. For body panels, I've order sheet metal from on line places, its not cheap but works. For the most part, I will find a body shop who does insurance claims and raid their metal bin once in a while, you'd be amazed at what gets tossed in the dumpsters that has very usable sheet metal and it's already painted and rust protected.
 
#11 ·
I've never even heard of gluing sheet metal repairs. Sounds like one of those "f-ing PO" solutions to me.

Matt
You would be amazed at just how much is being "glued" today., Still amazes me the reflectors on the road are glued down and look how often they get driven over or maybe the tiles on the space shuttle. Body shops today are all about speed, not repairs, so they replace full panels, very little if any bondo stuff. Only the older restoration shops are still cut and weld and they do it because some one is willing to pay for the work not because it has any better benefits.

But who am I to talk, I'm going with a fiberglass body so I never have to deal with rust again or sand for weeks trying to make it look flat. In time, only the purists will keep cutting and welding and a real purist won't drop a 360 in there either :grin2:
 
#10 ·
Okay, some great tips there, thank y'all!

"Stuck on gluing" indeed! There's always one in every crowd. >:)

Good idea about raiding the dumpster at the body shop - I'll have to give my regular guy a call and see if they'll donate some scrap.
I'm in the food service industry; the firm I'm with does facility design so we work with a lot of fabricators. I bet I can hit up my fabricators for a donation of materials, although they use mostly stainless due to NSF. I know that would be an issue if I was welding, but would it matter at all if I'm using adhesive?

Also, very good point and reminder that HD et. al. would have el-cheapo Chinese junk. I'll avoid that and look for some quality 18-gauge steel.

Once again, thanks for all the great input and advice!
 
#14 ·
I'll keep you posted. And I'll also keep an open mind. If I get into this and it looks like welding is the way to go, then I'll go that way.
This Jeep is my toy and my project to learn on, so I can afford the time to try different stuff and even re-do it if necessary.

If you'd seen my posts about the saga of my attempts to fuel-inject my Jeep, you'd know what I'm talking about.
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
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