Moser One Piece Axles install - remove the thrust block? - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Moser One Piece Axles install - remove the thrust block?

NEW!! HMF 50"-52" light bar mounting brackets!! Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineYear End Clearance Sale! Save 20%

Reply
Unread 09-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #1
CJ7KAHUNA
Member
 
CJ7KAHUNA's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 482
Moser One Piece Axles install - remove the thrust block?

I am getting ready to order Moser one piece axles so I've been doing some research on the installation as I've never done it before. While reading threads on here there seems to be quite a few people that have bearing and seal issues. I recall reading a thread where JEEPHAMMER mentioned an issue with the thrust block in the differential. Beings it was the only post I ran across that mentioned the thrust block I thought maybe it was a situational issue. I was doing a google search last night and ran across this post over on jeepsunlimted forum - posted by a senior moderator that goes by CJSIXER:

"Another tip for installation involves the trust block. The thrust block is a metal block with a hole in the center that is about two inches long and rides on the cross shaft in side of the carrier, basically in the center of all of the spider gears. I personally feel that based on problems that customers have had and called about in the tech dept at 4wd that the block should be removed. Because one piece axles change the way that your bearings are installed you will no longer need this block, it is there for bearing preload in the two peice set up. I feel that even if you can get you axles all of the way in you will still have accelerated bearing and seal wear. We try to get most customers to do this. To remove it all you have to do is pull the cross shaft and it should drop out. Then just put the cross shaft back in. The shims that some one refered to will also be left out. They were also for only the two peice set up."


I would like to hear opinions on this as it is not referenced in any of the Moser instructions that I've seen. If it helps with bearing life and has no adverse effects maybe its a good idea? Thoughts? LG Whatcha got?

__________________
My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets.
When I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really.
CJ7KAHUNA is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 12:46 PM   #2
jeepwhore
Hair puller xtraordinaire
 
jeepwhore's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 3,210
The way most one pc kits are designed you no longer need the t-block. The way the 2 pc set up works, one shaft assembly is mounted tight to the housing flange. The other shaft is inserted and pushes on the thrust block and the end of the first shaft, effectively making a solid shaft from one side to the other. Then shims are added behind the backing plate of the second side to get the specified end play.

Since 1 pc shafts use bearing protrusion to set pre-load neither the t-block or shims are required. I don't see how leaving it in would extend bearing or seal life. The side gears support the inner end of the shaft and the bearing supports the outer end. With a 1 pc set up bearing life is dictated by the retainer ring staying put, the bearing surface in the housing being un-marred and the housing being straight.
__________________
'84 CJ-7: Yota axles (spartan locked front, e-locked rear) 4" BDS, 1" Daystar & 3/8" shackle lifts, 35" X-Terrains on steelies, YJ Tub & family roll bar, heater blower upgrade, 4.2L w/MC2100 & Team Rush, Warn 8274. Rebuilt 4.2/4.0 hybrid, AX15 and twin sticks/clocking ring waiting to go in.

The advertised position for a topless, dirty jeep girl has been filled......by my wife. Thanks to all that applied.
<------------and yes, that is her.
:-D
jeepwhore is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 12:51 PM   #3
WindKnot
Web Wheeler
 
WindKnot's Avatar
1977 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kaibab Plateau, Northern Arizona
Posts: 3,102
Mine has been gone for a long time. I don't miss it.
__________________
I'd rather be lost on the trails than found at home!

Phoenix Rising- A Flame Off Restoration? http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ph...ation-1807257/
WindKnot is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 01:09 PM   #4
CJ7KAHUNA
Member
 
CJ7KAHUNA's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwhore View Post
I don't see how leaving it in would extend bearing or seal life.
The way I understand the post I quoted - leaving the thrust block in may lead to premature bearing failure.

I am guessing the consensus is to remove the thrust block as an installation step?
__________________
My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets.
When I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really.
CJ7KAHUNA is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #5
skizriz
Web Wheeler
 
skizriz's Avatar
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , Pa
Posts: 3,877
The moser instructions say to remove the block.

Sent from my HTC One SV using JeepForum
__________________
78 CJ7 258 TH400/Dana18 SOA/stock YJ springs 35" General Grabbers.
skizriz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 03:06 PM   #6
CJ7KAHUNA
Member
 
CJ7KAHUNA's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by skizriz View Post
The moser instructions say to remove the block.

Sent from my HTC One SV using JeepForum
These are the instructions I have downloaded - am I just missing it?
File Type: pdf jeepinstructions.pdf (303.8 KB, 42 views)
__________________
My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets.
When I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really.
CJ7KAHUNA is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 03:36 PM   #7
jeepwhore
Hair puller xtraordinaire
 
jeepwhore's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 3,210
Could be they slightly altered the length of their shafts (giggle) so that the thrust block could be left on place and no longer needed to be mentioned. best bet is to call them though to be sure.
__________________
'84 CJ-7: Yota axles (spartan locked front, e-locked rear) 4" BDS, 1" Daystar & 3/8" shackle lifts, 35" X-Terrains on steelies, YJ Tub & family roll bar, heater blower upgrade, 4.2L w/MC2100 & Team Rush, Warn 8274. Rebuilt 4.2/4.0 hybrid, AX15 and twin sticks/clocking ring waiting to go in.

The advertised position for a topless, dirty jeep girl has been filled......by my wife. Thanks to all that applied.
<------------and yes, that is her.
:-D
jeepwhore is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #8
skizriz
Web Wheeler
 
skizriz's Avatar
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , Pa
Posts: 3,877
I just put Mosers in mine a few months back, and know I saw it somewhere. I put a Lock Right in at the same time, I'm wondering if I didn't see it in those instructions.
I do remember seeing it somewhere though. It's tough getting old.
__________________
78 CJ7 258 TH400/Dana18 SOA/stock YJ springs 35" General Grabbers.
skizriz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #9
CJ7KAHUNA
Member
 
CJ7KAHUNA's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by skizriz View Post
I just put Mosers in mine a few months back, and know I saw it somewhere. I put a Lock Right in at the same time, I'm wondering if I didn't see it in those instructions.
I do remember seeing it somewhere though. It's tough getting old.
Those instructions may be out dated - I forgot what link I got them from. Age is a cruel mistress indeed
__________________
My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets.
When I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really.
CJ7KAHUNA is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 04:35 PM   #10
jetmech1
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by skizriz
The moser instructions say to remove the block.

Sent from my HTC One SV using JeepForum
No they don't, unless they've updated their website within the last few months.
jetmech1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #11
LumpyGrits
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Mojave Desert Palmdale Ca. U.S.A.
Posts: 5,181
The last set I put in, you had to.
LG
__________________
Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
LumpyGrits is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 05:12 PM   #12
skizriz
Web Wheeler
 
skizriz's Avatar
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , Pa
Posts: 3,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7KAHUNA View Post
Those instructions may be out dated - I forgot what link I got them from. Age is a cruel mistress indeed
I went off of the instruction sheet that came with the axles. Possible that it's been updated on the printed instructions....
Until I put the axles in, I had never heard of a thrust block. That's why I am ALMOST positive that I saw it somewhere.
__________________
78 CJ7 258 TH400/Dana18 SOA/stock YJ springs 35" General Grabbers.
skizriz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-08-2013, 09:46 PM   #13
only in a jeep cj
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 4,237
I slid in a set of Mosers the other day into a spare axle. I left the thrush spacer in and both went in with the bearing edges flush with the tube flange. Now maybe I had a really worn spacer as there was about 160K on the axle.
Just in case someone is confused on the bearing orientation, The tapered bearings in the OEM (2 piece design) face out with the race thick section toward the tire. This means when the weight is on the bearing, the axle is pushed inward. The race is held in place by the drum backing plate and the bearing is pressed onto the axle shaft (before the hub is installed) and seats against a built in bearing stop on the axle which is the seal surface for the inner seal. So both axle shafts press in against a 2 inch or so section of round stock called a thrust block. IF the total distance of the right side outer race edge to the left side outer race edge is larger than the axle tube flange edge to edge, shims are used on the drivers side to achieve the correct endplay to allow bearing movement and heat expansion, etc.
The Mosers and Superior units have the bearing facing the other way so the weight on the bearing pushes it outward. Again, the backing plate holds it on the outside and a pressed on ring holds the bearing. The races thick section is toward the inside and what keeps it from going further into the tube is a spacer that is special to these one piece axle swaps. It is trimmed to allow the correct bearing orientation at the tubes end.
That said, AS LONG AS the thrust block isn't contacted by the ends of the two axle shafts, it should be fine. If the thought of the thrust black floating around loose on the cross shaft bothers you, remove it. Now if when installing the second shaft, you find that you can't insert the bearing fulling to achieve the specified measurement, YES, the thrust block will need to be remove. My view is to check first.

As a side note, I have another set of one piece axles that I bought second hand years ago. What I noticed is that the bearings are installed like the two piece axles (race toward backing plate) and have a huge press ring holding it on. Its more like a huge pressed on collar. and Im guessing it uses the thrust block as well. Anyone know of this brand?
__________________
Ed

1975 CJ-6 304 T15 Dana20 30/44 3.73
1983 CJ-8 258 T5 300 30/44 3.31 Looking for full or half hardtop buy or trade
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 4.6 stroker T5 300 30/44 3.31
1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep project in the works
2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon
only in a jeep cj is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #14
CJ7KAHUNA
Member
 
CJ7KAHUNA's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 482
Well I PM'd the guy on JU that is quoted above - he says that if its geared 4.10 or more then the ring gear being bigger it will obstruct the cross pin and that the carrier will have to be removed and the ring gear taken off. I am perfectly comfortable removing the cross bar and thrust block but I have no experience setting up gears so - there's that.
__________________
My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets.
When I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really.
CJ7KAHUNA is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-10-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
LumpyGrits
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Mojave Desert Palmdale Ca. U.S.A.
Posts: 5,181
Pull the axles.
Unbolt the 4 bear'n cap bolts(mark the caps).
Jerk out the carrier, it should be under a preload. Don't loose the shims as they are on the outside of the carrier bearings. IF, you loose or mix up the shim pack, you are SCREWED.........
Witness mark the ring gear on the carrier. Remove r'gear.
Then when you reinstall, make sure you torque everdangthing to spec and use red loc-tite on the r'gear bolts.
It's not brain surgery.
LG
__________________
Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
LumpyGrits is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.