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Unread 12-28-2010, 08:22 PM   #46
MoC
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I also found the 2nd set of metal thrust washers off of the other tranny and they are all identical and dont fit either case. So I guess I have a couple of paths to take.

1) Leave it the way it fits and have one that does not face the main shaft. It looks to me the reason the flats should face the main shaft is for clearance on the cluster shaft. It further looks like only the middle of the case thrust washer actually has to have the flat face the shaft for clearance. Like I said I did stick the cluster shaft in and nothing hit.

2) Take a file and remove a little bit of metal from the thrust washer locating tab so that it fits in the locating slot on the case.


Think I will just do option #2 unless anyone else knows... I cant imagine that shaving the tab to fit the way the instructions say could hurt anything. The tab just rides in the case slot to keep it from spinning.

I am going to rebuilt LSUTigers 176 this weekend so at that time I can pay more attention to the orientation of thrust washers when I remove the reverse idler shaft.

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Unread 12-29-2010, 04:50 AM   #47
John Strenk
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Looks like I used new thrust washers on the reverse gears and the original on the counter shaft.
I measured the wear on my original thrust washers and they were withing 0.001" of the new ones so I just reused the old ones. Did you use a feller gauge to measure the clearance in the cluster? You should check to make sure you have enough clearance and nothing is going to jam participially if you are goint to mix and match parts from one tranny to another.

I have some pictures on my other computer, I'll go see if i can find some.
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Unread 12-29-2010, 05:05 AM   #48
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OK here is what I did, I looked at the bosses the thrust washers sat on and the one against the case was completely round so I mounted the thrust washer flipped around.



The boss on the other side was cut away for clearance so I mounted the thrust washer the proper way.


Then to make sure I checked the clearance of the rev gear.


As far As I can tell, the original did look like Eaglekeepers setup, but when you are the factory you can do things like that.


I think they found out there is no problem using the same design front and rear.
Besides, the durn reverse gear is larger than the thrust washer and you would have more problems with the gear if there was any clearance issues. The other end of the revers counter shaft is different so clearance there could be an issue.

The ones for the counter shaft were plastic and I used the original thrust washers in that position.


Check the clearance on your cluster also when mixing parts.


I was wondering about the marks. Were you suppose to make the marks on the parts before you pulled them apart?
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Unread 12-29-2010, 06:50 AM   #49
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That is what I was trying to explain in words since AI could not find a good picture; orient the thrust washers so the tab fits in the slot and you are good.
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Unread 12-29-2010, 09:28 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
OK here is what I did, I looked at the bosses the thrust washers sat on and the one against the case was completely round so I mounted the thrust washer flipped around.



The boss on the other side was cut away for clearance so I mounted the thrust washer the proper way.


As far As I can tell, the original did look like Eaglekeepers setup, but when you are the factory you can do things like that.

I think they found out there is no problem using the same design front and rear.
Besides, the durn reverse gear is larger than the thrust washer and you would have more problems with the gear if there was any clearance issues. The other end of the revers counter shaft is different so clearance there could be an issue.

The ones for the counter shaft were plastic and I used the original thrust washers in that position.

I was wondering about the marks. Were you suppose to make the marks on the parts before you pulled them apart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
That is what I was trying to explain in words since AI could not find a good picture; orient the thrust washers so the tab fits in the slot and you are good.
Thanks guys answered what I though. I just new that there was not a way to do it the way the rebuilt instructions said, now I feel much better.

@ John - I did check my end play as I went and all was well.
@ John - After doing this for the first time adding your own alignment marks on the syncros is a great idea. The instructions only say that the front one has to match up with the alignment marks. The spare set did have visible marks.
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Unread 12-29-2010, 09:50 PM   #51
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Today was a tough day tranny rebuilting.

Got the last syncro hub assembled and installed on the main cluster. Snap ring went on as well.


Next droped the thrust washers and the countershaft gear in the case.


After that installed the front bearing partially on the front shaft, needle bearings in front shaft, and bearing lockring on the bearing. From that point the real fun began and I was getting a little ticked off and stoped taking pictured. Dropped the main cluster in to the case. Pushed the front shaft and bearing through the front of the case and connected to main cluster. Partially tapped the front bearing in to the case. Installed the front bearing cap with finger tight bolts. Pushed the rear main bearing partaily in to the case. Lifted up the counter shaft gear and installed the counter shaft.




I have to say that the dropping in of the main cluster and then installing the counter shaft gear was a PITA. I spend some time getting that little part done.

Next I have to get the bearings in the rest of the way and install snap rings on the front and rear shafts on the exterior of the case. My snap ring plyers broke so I had to stop. I am having a little trouble getting the bearings to set in properly. Any tips or advice on how you guys got the bearings in properly? I ran through the 4 gears and reverse and it seems to shift fine. Only other problem that I ran in to it that it binds when the front bearing / shaft pushes in and the rear pushes out. I am 99% sure that this just has to do with the bearing on the front and rear not being seated completely and the snap rings not on. I played with it for a while and it unbinds when the rear is pushed in a bid. Once I get everything seated. fingers crossed, it should work. Also, any tips on installing the new oil seals?
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Unread 12-29-2010, 11:20 PM   #52
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lube the seals with either Vaseline or tranny fluid and slide them in place. Use the flat end of the appropriate sized socket and tap them home. keep them even all the way around. On the big seal on the rear (if it's the same as the T150) I cut a disk out of a 2x6 and drilled a hole a little bigger than the shaft. I used that to tap it in place. again keep it even all the way around. If you're looking for a good snap ring pliers, go to Sears they have a variety of them. The one you need is pretty good sized for the big snap rings you need to put on. I don't know the number off the top of my head. it was about $14 and has little flat paddles on the ends.
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Unread 12-30-2010, 04:20 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoC;10699829
Next I have to get the bearings in the rest of the way and install snap rings on the front and rear shafts on the exterior of the case. My snap ring plyers broke so I had to stop. I am having a little trouble getting the bearings to set in properly. [B
Any tips or advice on how you guys got the bearings in properly?[/B] I ran through the 4 gears and reverse and it seems to shift fine. Only other problem that I ran in to it that it binds when the front bearing / shaft pushes in and the rear pushes out. I am 99% sure that this just has to do with the bearing on the front and rear not being seated completely and the snap rings not on. I played with it for a while and it unbinds when the rear is pushed in a bid. Once I get everything seated. fingers crossed, it should work. Also, any tips on installing the new oil seals?
This is the time you stop and think, "is there just some varnish buildup on the clutch shaft or did one of the needle bearings fall down when I inserted the clutch shaft and that is why the new bearing isn't seating...???".

Don't use the front cover for forcing in the bearing as it will probably crack if there is a problem.

Also I found that when pushing in the front and rear bearings, it tends to bind up the syncros. Nothing to worry about, you just need to apply a little force to free it up again. Don't bend the syncro though.
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Unread 12-30-2010, 08:11 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereussailor View Post
lube the seals with either Vaseline or tranny fluid and slide them in place. Use the flat end of the appropriate sized socket and tap them home. keep them even all the way around. On the big seal on the rear (if it's the same as the T150) I cut a disk out of a 2x6 and drilled a hole a little bigger than the shaft. I used that to tap it in place. again keep it even all the way around. If you're looking for a good snap ring pliers, go to Sears they have a variety of them. The one you need is pretty good sized for the big snap rings you need to put on. I don't know the number off the top of my head. it was about $14 and has little flat paddles on the ends.
Thanks on the seal advise. My snap ring pliers came from sears so I will be returning for a new set.
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Unread 12-30-2010, 08:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
This is the time you stop and think, "is there just some varnish buildup on the clutch shaft or did one of the needle bearings fall down when I inserted the clutch shaft and that is why the new bearing isn't seating...???".

Don't use the front cover for forcing in the bearing as it will probably crack if there is a problem.

Also I found that when pushing in the front and rear bearings, it tends to bind up the syncros. Nothing to worry about, you just need to apply a little force to free it up again. Don't bend the syncro though.

Did not think about the possibality of a needle bearing faling out the clutch shaft... Guess just for "fun" I can pull it apart and double check.
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Unread 12-30-2010, 08:39 AM   #56
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I pulled mine out 3 times thinking I dropped something inside the case. The last time, I said "Screw it. Nothing fell out". So far so good with about 400 miles on it.
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Unread 12-30-2010, 02:17 PM   #57
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Really good timing on this post. I have another post on my T5 transmission under Engines and Drivetrains that I am repairing. You have some really helpful stuff in here. Thanks for posting!
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Unread 12-30-2010, 05:08 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
This is the time you stop and think, "is there just some varnish buildup on the clutch shaft or did one of the needle bearings fall down when I inserted the clutch shaft and that is why the new bearing isn't seating...???".
John after thinking about this all day and really not wanting the "fun" of pulling it apart I though of something. I rattled the case around pretty good and did not find any clutch needle bearings. The only other place they could have gone if one fell out would to be in the "pocket" inside the front of the clutch shaft where the spline shaft rest. If they did come loose and rest in there the gap between the 4th gear synco and the gear on the clutch shaft would visiblly be off in the boxed area on the attached picture. Mine is not. Does that sound like good logic to you?
100_1005a.jpg  
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Unread 12-31-2010, 04:46 PM   #59
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Well ran in to a wall this afternoon while finishing. Got my new snap ring plier's yesterday and installed the snap rings and got the bearings to seat properly. Everything spun and shifted fine. Today I installed and tightened down the front bearing cap and the tcase adapter. I did not install the oil seals or the gaskets, wanted to do a dry run first. Once everything is tightened down, again w/o gaskets and oil seals, the fourth gear syncro binds / pinches. It is like it is pinching between the clutch shaft and the clutch assembly. I can actually put a turn on each bearing cap bolt and see it pinch up. So my first thoughts were maybe the small and large gear plates were reversed. I checked them without pulling the tranny back apart and they are correct. Small sets in the front and the large sets in the back. My next was maybe a bearing was not seated all the way but the do appear to be fine. I double checked through my pictures and the snap rings all appear to be in place...

Any ideas? Is it possible that without the gaskets and oil seals it would bind up??

So I guess tomorrow I am going to pull it back apart again and double check the main cluster... I am a little worried about pulling the bearings and causing damage to them. I think the front can slide out and I can just tap it down the shaft a little when it comes time to reinstall. The back though I have to get off. Will the rear bearing be damaged if I pull it out?

I did read on another thread somewhere that some times the syncros bind and you can use a small screw driver to free them but not the case here. It is pinched more than it is binded. When I first put together 2nd binded and I was able to free it but not the case here.
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Unread 12-31-2010, 10:58 PM   #60
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So hear are some pictures. The first picture is without the bearing cap on and you can see how the 4th gear syncro has good spacing. In the second picture the bearing cap it tightened up and you can see how the spacing closed up and the syncro is pinched and pressed up agains the syncro hub. I tried several times to free it like many have said but does not seem like the problem.
100_3089.jpg   100_3090.jpg  
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