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Unread 09-06-2009, 06:24 PM   #1
caanzaldua
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Milky Brown Transmission Fluid Drained from T5

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I recently acquired an '81 CJ7 and I will slowly fix her up. I decided to start by taking care of the mechanical parts first before she looks pretty.

I just drained the manual transmission. I believe it's a T5 (5-spd). The fluid that came out was smelly, milky brown and pretty thick. I believe it to be ATF but I'm not too familiar with this type of stuff. I was planning on refilling the tranny with Royal Purple Synchromax but I wasn't sure how it would affect it since the tranny isn't 100% flushed out. Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Btw, JeepForum is awesome. There is a great amount of knowledge here and everyone seems to be very helpful.

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Unread 09-06-2009, 06:45 PM   #2
BESRK
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Maybe fill it with standard (read cheap) lube, run it for a bit, drain that out and then add your expensive stuff.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 07:18 PM   #3
caanzaldua
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Thanks, that's what I was thinking of doing. I talked to my neighbor who's a mechanic and he said that more than likely, I had water (moisture) in the transmission. That was the cause of the thick milky brown stuff that came out.

I will just go buy some less expensive stuff. Thanks for responding.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 08:20 PM   #4
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Hey there.. when I drained the fluid from my T18 on my 76 CJ it came out milky brown. It definitely was from water and mud coming in through the top where the shifter goes in. You can find some CV boots and with zip ties seal off that area so that nothing gets in anymore!
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Unread 09-06-2009, 08:32 PM   #5
JonB-CJ7
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If your tranny fluid came out milky brown, its probably gear oil vs ATF. Plain gear oil will be sort of like dark honey, but if it has been contaminated with water, it will resemble chocolate milk. Gear oil also has a nice sulfery smell to it. I'm not to sure about ATF.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 08:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid Jeep View Post
You can find some CV boots and with zip ties seal off that area so that nothing gets in anymore!
Except the the vent on the t-4/5 is actually lower than the shift tower. When I had my T-5 out I pulled the vent, tapped the hole for (IIRC)3/8 NPT barb and spliced it into the transfer case vent hose.

Milky gear oil = water in lube.

The original AMC fluid (nicknamed Fishoil) was a burnt brownish red color similar to scorched ATF.
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Last edited by 1984CJ; 09-06-2009 at 08:38 PM.. Reason: add quote
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Unread 09-06-2009, 08:38 PM   #7
poppatello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonB-CJ7 View Post
If your tranny fluid came out milky brown, its probably gear oil vs ATF. Plain gear oil will be sort of like dark honey, but if it has been contaminated with water, it will resemble chocolate milk. Gear oil also has a nice sulfery smell to it. I'm not to sure about ATF.


I concur. I did mine in the beginning of summer. My Cj sat for about 10+ years before I get her and started driving her. I drove her for a bout a year then change all the drive line fluids. I used Valvoline Synthetic 75-90 gear oil. When I drained all my fluids, I found the trans and transfer case brown n milky. It sure smelled bad too. I think its cause it sat over the years with the temp change it just collect moister. Now the rears came out green and smelly! I can't understand that mixture. But it seems to run a lot better, cooler and quieter.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 09:19 PM   #8
caanzaldua
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Thanks for all the advice. It was definitely brown, milky, and smelly.
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Unread 09-07-2009, 07:16 AM   #9
Mike Romain
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The T5 is also 'real' picky about gear oil, it needs a GL3 or GL4 gear oil, if you use a GL5 grade, the syncros will fail and it will shift 'bad'. GL4 is hard to find. I tried some supposedly compatible with GL4, GL5 and they lied, it stopped shifting into 1st right away. Got the right grade and have been great for 10 years.

I also pulled out the button vent and put a chunk of gas line in the hole to make a nipple for a high water vent line to attach to, it has worked well.
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Unread 09-07-2009, 07:40 AM   #10
caanzaldua
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I assume the button vent is where water is coming in from the top? I'm mechanically challenged but I'm slowly learning. I just acquired my CJ about 2 weeks ago.
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Unread 09-08-2009, 06:38 AM   #11
Mike Romain
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Yup, jeep in it's wisdumb only put a stupid button vent on the tranny instead of a high water hose vent like the t-case and diffs have.
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Unread 09-08-2009, 07:05 AM   #12
bleoh
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Here is what it looks like:



I pulled it, tapped the hole and put a barb in. Then tied it into the D300 breather.

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Unread 09-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #13
sanddrag
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My Chilton's manual says the T4 and T5 are to be filled with Dexron II. Is that correct?
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Unread 09-08-2009, 11:09 AM   #14
longboy
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Just thought I'd post this info from another forum member regarding T5 and T4 lubrication:

Quote:
Originally Posted by twmattox View Post
The problem with T-5 is very complex. From what I have read, the T-5 is rated to 265 ft-lb torque, the AX-15 is rated to 285 ft-lb, and the NV3550 is rated (conservatively) at 300 ft-lb. So, if it is nearly as strong as the AX-15, why does it have such a bad reputation?

I hit the website for Medatronics Corporation's 5 Speed Home page! talk about a shop that knows their T-5s...the guy was very very knowledgeable! He indicated the largest problems (that gave T-5s a bad rap) dealt with a recalled third gear (went from 29 spline to 27 spline). That upgrade is supposed to help beef the thing up a good deal. Other problems deal with incorrect or improper fluid levels. These non-world class transmissions operate without needle bearings (instead having deep oil grooves). As such, they should only run gear oil.

I have done a decent bit of research on the "correct" fluid to use. A good friend is the Parts Manager at a local Jeep store and works with many mechanics who worked on these, I have looked over Factory Service Manuals from 1982, 1983, and 1984-1986, searched the Factory Recalls, and Tech Bulletins...

When they first came out, AMC recommended using ATF (1982 FSM). However, there was a recall for this in 1982 (Recall Number: 82V125000) indicating that the “ORIGINAL PRODUCTION TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT USED IN THE INVOLVED VEHICLES MAY NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO PROTECT THE TRANSMISSIONS FIRST GEAR.” FSM supplement for 1982 (Tech Bulletin) and the 1983 FSM both indicate to use 90wt in the T-5. By 1984, AMC started using a proprietary manual transmission lubricant. This was affectionately referred to as "fish oil" by the mechanics or AMC manual transmission fluid (Part Number 8983 000 000). This fluid was discontinued by AMC and currently, Chrysler is recommending the use of GL3 gear oil.

From my limited understanding, GL3 is very different from GL4 or GL5. I emailed Valvoline regarding this (as I haven't seen GL3 or GL4 in a very long time). They indicated that the issue is with the type of sulfate used in the lube. Apparently activated sulfate (used in some GL5 lubes) can eat brass synchros. Valvoline indicated: "The Valvoline High Performance Gear Oil 80-w90 can be used for both GL4 and GL5. The real concern is the type of sulfate used in the gear oil. You can not use an active sulfate for GL-4 applications. Valvoline uses an inactive sulfate that will not harm any yellow metal such as bronze. This allows our products to be used in manual transmissions that have bronze synchronizers."

All of this being said, there is an issue with shifting in colder climates. Apparently, the gear lube is almost too thick to allow smooth shifting on cold days, until the lube warms up a little. Many have reported good luck with synthetics, some have cut the gear lube with a little ATF, and some have reported good luck running 20w50 motor oil. I am not sure what the overall best solution is, but the only “Factory” recommended solution is to run 80-90…

I hope this was not too confusing, I have researched it a lot and written a similar dissertation in a lot of other forums. This is a little more concise...
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Unread 09-08-2009, 11:40 AM   #15
Mike Romain
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I also checked with the Jeep dealer and they stated that it was OK to use ATF in the winter 'if' I had hard shifting, otherwise use a GL3 to be safer.

from Another poster, Fred:
NAPA sells this
SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239
Mfg By Sta-Lube, sibisdary of CRC Industries
Bar Code 72213-24239
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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