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Unread 04-18-2013, 05:11 PM   #166
hmantractors
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Nissan calipers

HI BILLY, THE 300ZX CALIPERS ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE MAXIMA CALIPERS. IF THE MOUNTING HOLES AN THE CALIPER MOUNTING BRACKET TO THE AXLE IS NOT REDRILLED AND LOWERED ABOUT 7/16", THE BRAKE PADS ARE NOT CENTERED TO THE ROTOR. THIS CAUSES REDUCED STOPPING POWER AND I CAN SEE WHERE THE PADS WILL WEAR UNEVEN AND AS SOME HAVE EXPERIENCED AT SOME POINT THE PADS ARE KICKED OUT OF THE MAXIMA CALIPER. THE E-BRAKE CABLE IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE TWO DIFFEERENT MODELS OF CALIPERS. THE 300ZX LOOKS TO BE THE EASIER. I ONLY HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THE MAXIMA PIECES. IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER I THINK I WOULD GO THE 300ZX ROUTE.

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Unread 04-18-2013, 05:26 PM   #167
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmantractors View Post
TITAN, I GOT THE POWER ONE.
For what it's worth, typing in all caps is considered yelling on the internet, and is poor form. I know you said you do it because you are lazy, which may be true, but it makes your posts rather difficult to read.

Anyway, thanks for the update. I still question whether this mod is truly an "upgrade" over properly operating drum brakes. The funky e-brake routing, and the under-sized nature of the GEO discs concern me, but I'm glad it's all working for you.

Matt
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Unread 04-18-2013, 07:45 PM   #168
CJ7ROB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post

I still question whether this mod is truly an "upgrade" over properly operating drum brakes. The funky e-brake routing, and the under-sized nature of the GEO discs concern me, but I'm glad it's all working for you.

Matt
Go buy the SSBC kit then if your skeptical about the "dinky" rotors & calipers. It'll be like 3 times the price for what look like the same rotors & calipers.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 08:41 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by CJ7ROB View Post
Go buy the SSBC kit then if your skeptical about the "dinky" rotors & calipers. It'll be like 3 times the price for what look like the same rotors & calipers.
I don't know anything about the "SSBC kit". My comments and concerns are based purely on the information in front of me.

We all know disc breaks are designed for specific loads. Generally speaking, the larger the diameter of the disc the more stopping power it has. The thickness of the disc dictates how quickly it heats up, or cools down.

The disc you boys are using is designed for a vehicle that is 30-50% lighter than most of the CJs out there. I'm no engineer, but those numbers don't sound too good to me.

IMO, a more appropriate "upgrade" would be a disc and caliper that was designed for a 1/2-3/4 ton pickup, not a 2-door midget SUV.


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Unread 04-18-2013, 09:04 PM   #170
CJ7ROB
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I thought SSBC was pretty well known for these kits, but if you check it out in the link below, aside from the rotors being the vented style, I don't see them being much bigger and the calipers look practically the same. I know my 3/4 ton pickup rotors/calipers look a lot bigger.

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/rear-dr...bc-a130bk.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
I don't know anything about the "SSBC kit". My comments and concerns are based purely on the information in front of me.

We all know disc breaks are designed for specific loads. Generally speaking, the larger the diameter of the disc the more stopping power it has. The thickness of the disc dictates how quickly it heats up, or cools down.

The disc you boys are using is designed for a vehicle that is 30-50% lighter than most of the CJs out there. I'm no engineer, but those numbers don't sound too good to me.

IMO, a more appropriate "upgrade" would be a disc and caliper that was designed for a 3/4-1 ton pickup, not a 2-door midget SUV.


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Unread 04-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck633
On sale for 24 bucks at HF

Will try it out tomorrow and report!!!
A work of warning on the vacuum bleeders. This applys to newer rebuilt calipers. The last 3 calipers I bought had been tapped with metric threads, this isn't a big deal. What is a big deal is the fact of the bleeders they put in them. These bleeders do not seal as good around the threads as the OEM bleeders.
What happens is the vacuum hose gets put on, the bleeder gets backed off a little to allow fluid to pass. And you pump up a vacuum. The problem is, air escapes past the threads, and up thru the vacuum pump. The end result is a lot of air, and very little if any brake fluid.

I imagine there are 2 reasons a person buys a new caliper.
1.) the bleeder broke off in the caliper.
2.) the piston in the caliper is either leaking of bound up.

#1 is the reason for the problem with tapping and metric bleeders. And a distinct difference can be seen with the # of TPI vs the OEM and metric.

I returned a GM 10 bolt caliper 3 times trying to find a good one, with no luck. I've had the same thing happen on a YJ Dana 30 caliper. At the begining I said to myself WTF is going on here.

Bill
Edit, it's not so much a warning, just a FYI about what could happen.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmantractors View Post
HI TITANJEEP, DID YOU GET YOUR BRAKES WORKING PROPERLY? AS I STATED IN A PREVIOUS POST I WAS NOT COMPLETELY HAPPY WITH THEM. THIS PAST WEEKEND IN INSTALLED A VACUUM BOOSTER FROM AN 80 CJ7. ALSO INSTALLED A 1968 CORVETTE MASTER CYLINDER WITH THE DISC-DISC OPTION. I FINALLY HAVE BRAKES I CAN LIVE WITH. THE MORE I DRIVE IT THE PADS ARE BEDDING AND THE BETTER IT STOPS. FEELS LIKE BRAKES WE ARE ALL USED TO. ISN'T JUST A HARD PEDAL. SINCE I HAD TO MAKE THE BRAKE LINES FROM THE MASTER TO THE PROP VALVE LONGER, I BLEW OUT THE LINES TO TAKE THEM TO THE PARTS STORE. THE FRONT BRAKE LINE BLEW OUT JUST FINE. THE 1/4' REAR BRAKE LINE WAS INTERESTING. IT SEEMED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF A RESTRICTION IN IT. WHATEVER BLEW OUT I COULD NOT FIND. REALLY WANTED TO FIND IT. THE REAR BRAKES HAD FLUID. OH WELL. HOPE YOU GET YOURS WORKING.
Maybe... I am not sure yet. I was able to get the system bled to the point where the pedal resistance is consistent with my Liberty. But, I have not finished the installation of the parking break cable or conducted a road test yet. I am hoping to finish the installation, take her for a drive (for the first time in three years) and have full report for everyone before I go to bed Sunday evening. We shall see if I am successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Billy, sounds like you have a good handle on the details.

Someone needs to put together an all-inclusive parts list (including part #s), and a clear set of instructions, for this upgrade.

Matt
I agree Billy... your input has been extremely helpful (even if you did cheat and put in a hydro-boost system ).

I am pulling together a summary and record of my experiences with this conversion on my build thread. It is obviously not finished yet, but the goal is to gather as much information in one place as possible for other people attempting this swap. I welcome any suggestions you might have about pertinent information that should be included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
I don't know anything about the "SSBC kit". My comments and concerns are based purely on the information in front of me.

We all know disc breaks are designed for specific loads. Generally speaking, the larger the diameter of the disc the more stopping power it has. The thickness of the disc dictates how quickly it heats up, or cools down.

The disc you boys are using is designed for a vehicle that is 30-50% lighter than most of the CJs out there. I'm no engineer, but those numbers don't sound too good to me.

IMO, a more appropriate "upgrade" would be a disc and caliper that was designed for a 1/2-3/4 ton pickup, not a 2-door midget SUV.


Devil's Advocate
All engineering projects need an good Devil's Advocate... it prevents the designer from overlooking potential flaws and helps them refine their solution. And your comments got me thinking, so I did a little research on the original applications of the parts being used in this conversion. The curb weights for the vehicles involved in my swap are as follows:

- 1981 CJ-5: 2880 lbs
- 1988 300ZX: 2,888–3,027 lbs
- 1996 Geo Tracker 4dr: 2434 lbs

They are all pretty close. Add to that the fact that the GEO rotors are the same diameter as the CJ drums, and I am comfortable that the components are appropriately sized for this application... especially in my case where I am not adding over-sized tires or a lot of heavy armor.* So then the challenge is getting all the parts in the system to work together appropriately. This appears to be the problem most of us in this thread have been struggling with. Some have been able to make it work with the stock components. Others have upgraded valves and/or MCs. The biggest problems that we CJ owners face is AMC's configuration control struggles which make it hard to find a single solution that will work for all of us. (Even the kits made by SSBC note in there directions that some vehicles will require component upgrades that others will not). Each of us will have to work through our own process to get our vehicles dialed in to meet our expectations.

* Of course, this all changes when you are trying to improve the stopping performance of heavily modified vehicles. In that case, you either want to increase the surface area the brakes have to grab with bigger rotors, and/or increase the grabbing force with upgraded MCs and/or calipers.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 01:18 AM   #173
82JeepCJ7
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Considering those disc will clamp harder and clean easier than the original drums... I'd rather have disc.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 01:40 AM   #174
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I started here in the forum digging around for a solution, turnkey bolt on have at it.... A "let's add components from two different overseas oem vendors to a bracket that may need rework and lets scour the junkyard for them to ensure all manner of incompatibility issues". Thats part of the fun. I recall grinding my backing plate away not knowing if my junkyard finds plus my new found knowledge was going to work. I remember new stopping power that i was most pleased with and a leaky caliper that i needed to rebuild for $6 seals. I think i almost prefer cobbling it together than writing a check for an off the shelf solution The knowledge is all here on the forum; take the plunge, it'll work. Or you'll make it work!
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Unread 04-19-2013, 07:35 AM   #175
Matt1981CJ7
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Originally Posted by billybooster2 View Post
I started here in the forum digging around for a solution, turnkey bolt on have at it.... A "let's add components from two different overseas oem vendors to a bracket that may need rework and lets scour the junkyard for them to ensure all manner of incompatibility issues". Thats part of the fun. I recall grinding my backing plate away not knowing if my junkyard finds plus my new found knowledge was going to work. I remember new stopping power that i was most pleased with and a leaky caliper that i needed to rebuild for $6 seals. I think i almost prefer cobbling it together than writing a check for an off the shelf solution The knowledge is all here on the forum; take the plunge, it'll work. Or you'll make it work!
That's funny. The cobbled nature of this mod is what bothers me. But, hey, we'd get bored if we all thought alike.

The thing is, most CJ mods involve upgrading to parts that were used on much larger vehicles. The idea is to increase performance, make them stronger, and more reliable than factory. We swap axles, transmissions, and engines, all from bigger rigs.

This mod goes away from that mindset. It uses parts from little foreign cars that our grandmother's drive. It just doesn't seem to fit the MO.

Matt
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Unread 04-19-2013, 07:51 AM   #176
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Well there is a mood the used Caddy front calipers, but does not get you the e-brake set. I'm not so sure the nissan pads are to small. I look at my Suburban rear pad and yes they are twice the size, but it is much heavier and designed to pull and stop 10,000 trailer.
I was always told that the front did most of the stopping power.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 07:53 AM   #177
CJ7ROB
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Since when does grandma drive a Nissan Z or Maxima? You should upgrade from the little 20 axle to a D44 or 9" or 1 ton if you want bigger, better brakes. Or you could fab up another bracket for some dual piston rear calipers. Make sure you do a nice writeup too.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 08:04 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by CJ7ROB View Post
Since when does grandma drive a Nissan Z or Maxima? You should upgrade from the little 20 axle to a D44 or 9" or 1 ton if you want bigger, better brakes. Or you could fab up another bracket for some dual piston rear calipers. Make sure you do a nice writeup too.
My grandmother loved her Maxima. I don't know anyone who drives a GEO Tracker, and I'm not sure I want to. The Nissan Z is a decent ride...for a chick.

Anyway, I hope you guys don't mind me questioning your choices. That's how we all learn and grow.

I look forward to an update from someone who has put 30-40K miles on this mod.

Matt
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Unread 04-19-2013, 08:18 AM   #179
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Matt its good to question. I'm sure with some homework one could find a better set up. Now I know in the past there was an upgrade to caddy calipers but those were front so no parking brake. So I did some digging that may or may not help. I looked up a 1999 caddy seville sts. That has real calipers with parking brake. The pads look larger then the nissian. The rotor spec is 11 mm and the tracker is 10 mm thick so thats not an issue. The brake like fitting is diferent but not a big deal.
Now the curb weight of this caddy 4000 pounds. Closer to a loaded CJ.
So I wonder if these would work? If so the a bracket would need to be made or mod the nissian one.

Now I have no idea if this set uo will work. I was just looking for calipers with the same specs as the nissan but on vehicle that is heavier.
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Unread 04-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by waterdowg View Post
Matt its good to question. I'm sure with some homework one could find a better set up. Now I know in the past there was an upgrade to caddy calipers but those were front so no parking brake. So I did some digging that may or may not help. I looked up a 1999 caddy seville sts. That has real calipers with parking brake. The pads look larger then the nissian. The rotor spec is 11 mm and the tracker is 10 mm thick so thats not an issue. The brake like fitting is diferent but not a big deal.
Now the curb weight of this caddy 4000 pounds. Closer to a loaded CJ.
So I wonder if these would work? If so the a bracket would need to be made or mod the nissian one.

Now I have no idea if this set uo will work. I was just looking for calipers with the same specs as the nissan but on vehicle that is heavier.
Now we're talking, dowg. I like the direction you're heading.

I wonder if caliper size of the Caddy brakes is an issue with standard 15" Jeep wheels. I don't have a clue, just throwing ***** on the wall to see what sticks....

Matt
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