[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by whittlecj

Any part number would be helpful so I could find the others.

Do you mean that I could buy a terminal for 1 guage (or larger) and then put in 2 4 guage wires? (one to starter, one to alternator) or something?

I do it all the time.
I often do 4 Ga. welding cable to the starter, and also add a 6 Ga. wire in the connector to a grounding lug or to the block or something like that.
I often add a 10 Ga. wire in there to the alternator so I don't have to add in another one or two connections.

A 2/0 (00) Ga. terminal will hold one 4 Gauge, one 6 Gauge and one 10 Ga. wire very easily.
-----------------------------------

Don't get locked into Fastenal, lots of places will have the battery terminals, including anyplace that handles big truck parts or heavy equipment parts.
(Probably cheaper there anyway!)

Get a catalog from Fastenal, and places like it, and take your time, order what you need and let them get it in for you.

Welding shops will have the 'Eye' or 'Ring' terminal ends for cables and the cable it's self, and welding shops often sell cable below the regular market value as a 'Loss Leader' to get people in their stores.

Don't forget to get a catalog!

------------------------------------------------

FASTENAL PART NUMBERS BELOW...
Heavy Lugs
These are heavy duty, Cast Copper, Lead Cadmium Plated Lugs.
These are the most heavy duty terminals I've ever used.
They REQUIRE a heavy crimper, and if you are smart, you will scuff the inside with sandpaper and use silver bearing solder in the electrical connection after crimping.

3/8" hole only.
0715713 4ga. $3.89
0715714 2ga. $3.97
0715715 1ga. $3.99
0715716 1/0 $4.02
0715717 2/0 $4.07
0715718 3/0 $4.16
0715719 4/0 $4.25

0715713, Left



0717041 Right,

3/8" hole only.
0717041 4ga. $4.41
0717042 1ga. $4.75
------------------------------------------------

These are less expensive 'Tubing Type' lugs made from extruded copper tubing.
They work fine and can be crimped with about any kind of crimping tool since they are soft copper.
I would still solder the connection points after crimping.



5/16" hole, 10 to a bag, prices are EACH, minimum order is usually 10.
0717056 8ga. 49¢
0717061 6ga. 68¢
0717065 4ga. 72¢
0717069 2ga. 97¢
0717073 1ga.$1.04
0717076 1/0 $1.19
0717079 2/0 $1.42



3/8" hole, 10 to a bag, minimum order of 10 each. prices are EACH...
0717057 8ga .70
0717062 6ga .72
0717066 4ga .87
0717070 2ga .97
0717074 1ga $1.08
0717077 1/0 $1.23
0717080 2/0 $1.46
0717082 3/0 $1.84
0717084 4/0 $2.35

-----------------------------------------------------

Straight Battery Terminals...

Proprietary, Straight, Solid Cast Copper, Lead Cadmium Plated, With Proper Stainless Steel Battery Bolt And Nut, HEAVY CRIMP TYPE.
THESE ARE HEAVY DUTY UNITS!

Negative Terminals,
0715659 8ga. $4.61
0715661 6ga. $4.61
0715663 4ga. $4.61
0715665 2ga. $4.65
0715667 1ga. $4.65
0715669 1/0 $4.74
0715671 2/0 $4.74
0715673 3/0 $4.75
0715675 4/0 $5.68



Positive Terminals,
0715660 8ga. $4.61
0715662 6ga. $4.61
0715664 4ga. $4.61
0715666 2ga. $4.65
0715668 1ga. $4.65
0715670 1/0 $4.74
0715672 2/0 $4.74
0715674 3/0 $4.75
0715676 4/0 $5.68
--------------------------------------------------

[whittlecj]

Thanks! while you were writing that I did go by my local Fastenal and got a catalog. So far I have learned 2 more things -
1) Quickcable Makes the cool connectors fastenal carries. I have yet to find an alternate source. The website is really neat because it has tons of teaching videos including some which go over what JeepHammer has posted here.
2) JeepHammer mentions above that welding cable is cheaper at welding stores - that seems for certain. Airgas' cable is nearly half the price as Fastenal's welding cable and battery cable of the same length.

One clarifying question - a #4 Welding cable = a 4 guage cable, right?

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by whittlecj

One clarifying question - a #4 Welding cable = a 4 guage cable, right?

Probably so.
The conductor size will be printed right on the side of the cable when you get there, so it's easy to tell what the wire gauge size is of any given cable.

[vertdog]

Great write up Jhammer! I was thinking of starting a thread on cleaning up rusty tools!! I think it would benefit you!

[jatepper]

Nice, simple write-up hammer. Thanks.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by vertdog

Great write up Jhammer! I was thinking of starting a thread on cleaning up rusty tools!! I think it would benefit you!

Smart Azz!

Yup, they got rusty, that's what happens when they live their lives in hard service!
I have them lubed up now, and they don't look like that anymore...

I had all that stuff in the back of the FSJ in a tub to keep it together, and the back window got rolled down about 2" without me knowing it...
EVERYTHING RUSTED!
Rust, a sign of good carbon steel in the tools!

[whittlecj]

Any comments on how to do the positive battery cable? I wanted to run 4guage to the starter, 10 guage to the PDC and Fuse Box, and something (discussed below) to the alternator. From above, it seems like if I go the direction of making the cbales I can squish the 3 wires together in an 00 terminal. Is there another readily aparent option if I don't want to make cables and just use premade?

I am also struggling with how to do the fusible link between battery and alternator positive cable. I'm looking for guage recommendations for the wire and fuse, and the type and size of fuse. I'm running an 02 4.0L in my CJ, for this application the SAE rated amperage is up to 124. The factory wiring diagram shows 6 guage cable with a 10 guage fuse link. I don't have the original so I am starting from scratch, but if all else fails will go with what the factory did - I just don't readily know the best way to get the fuse inline.


** I found this online and it sounds too easy - thoughts?
A fusable link is exactly like the old fashioned household fuse. You make a fusabling link by cutting the wire and inserting a small length of wire 2 wire sizes smaller (I believe its two, don't quote me.) So if the wire is 12 gauge, put in a small length of 14 gauge. (A 14 gauge wire is small than 12 gauge) Make sure you use stranded insulated wire that is meant for cars and that you use the mechanical connectors with insulation built onto them (usually blue) that you attach to the wire by using a crimping tool. I think the length of the fuse should be about 1 inch to about 1.5 inches. Wrap it with plenty of black electrician's tape. If the fuse does burn out (which you want it to if there is too much current going through the wire) the black tape will protect the wire from shorting out to the body of the car, which cause you real problems.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by whittlecj

Any comments on how to do the positive battery cable? I wanted to run 4guage to the starter, 10 guage to the PDC and Fuse Box, and something (discussed below) to the alternator. From above, it seems like if I go the direction of making the cbales I can squish the 3 wires together in an 00 terminal. Is there another readily aparent option if I don't want to make cables and just use premade?

Use pre-made if you like, just make sure the crimped terminals are secure, and If I were you, I'd apply silver bearing solder to the connections,
And I'd use heavy walled heat shrink tubing with glue added to make sure the connections were sealed up so corrosives can't enter the terminal or wire bundle.

I am also struggling with how to do the fusible link between battery and alternator positive cable.

I'm stopping you right there!

The fusible link or fuse should NEVER be next to the battery!
Batteries produce explosive gasses, and fuses, breakers, relays, ect. should NEVER be right around the battery because of those gasses!

The fusible link for the fuse block and the fusible link for the alternator and the fusible link for the head lights should NEVER be attached to a battery terminal!

Always attach those accessory power links to the starter solenoid for safety!
----------------------------------------

** I found this online and it sounds to easy - thoughts?
A fusable link is exactly like the old fashioned household fuse. You make a fusabling link by cutting the wire and inserting a small length of wire 2 wire sizes smaller (I believe its two, don't quote me.) So if the wire is 12 gauge, put in a small length of 14 gauge.

This is all DEAD WRONG, so I'm not going to quote it all.

First of all, a fusible link should be 4 AWG Sizes Smaller than the primary wire it's protecting.
(AWG= American Wire Gauge, 10 Ga. Primary wire should have a 14 Ga. fusible link)

Fuse Wire, or Fusible Links, are made of a VERY SPECIFIC mix of metals like lead, silver, tin, antimony, ect,
They ARE NOT just pieces of smaller wire.

The mix of the fusible link lets it decompose quickly and throughly when the melting temprature is reached, so the connection fails completely,
Saving the rest of the wiring and attached accessory from catastrophic failure.

The insulation on a Fusible Link will feel like 'Rubber' instead of the vinyl insulation you are used to on regular 'Primary' copper conductor wire.
The insulation if specifically constructed and formulated to contain the Fuse Wire burn if the worst happens...
That's why you have to check the Fusible Link with a Multi-Meter or Tug On the fusible link to see if the wire is burned or not... Because the insulation will NOT burn through alerting you to a failure.

The Fusible Link Is used at the HEAD or BEGINNING of a circuit to protect the primary wire and accessory hooked up to that primary wire from catastrophic failure if something should ground out the primary wire, or something should go wrong in the accessory and ground out the circuit.

The Fusible Link burns, cutting off the current to the Primary Wire and the Accessory, saving the Primary Wire and Accessory from burning down and catching fire!
Vinyl wiring insulation makes a GREAT FIRE!
So does all the varnish used for insulation on the alternator windings!
If you have an oil leak, or the burning wiring is bundled with other wires... Then the vehicle burns down!

I still use Fusible Links for large circuit protection for a number of reasons.
1. Will take more of a 'Surge' in current without burning like large fuses will.
2. Doesn't have the corrosion problems fuses and fuse sockets have.
3. Since they don't have a 'Socket', they don't collect mud and 'Crud' like Fuses do.
4. Much easier to work with.
5. Much CHEAPER to work with.

Remember,
Keep the Fuse or Fusible Link AWAY FROM THE BATTERY GAS.
Keep the Fuse or Fusible Link, Circuit Breaker as close to the 'Head' or 'Beginning' of the circuit as possible.
Keep a 4 AWG wire sizes smaller for the Fusible Link to Primary Wire size.
If you can keep from it, don't bundle the fusible link tightly with other wires,
Allow it some room to do it's job (Burn) in an emergency.

[Mike Romain]

Originally Posted by whittlecj

I am also struggling with how to do the fusible link between battery and alternator positive cable. I'm looking for guage recommendations for the wire and fuse, and the type and size of fuse. I'm running an 02 4.0L in my CJ, for this application the SAE rated amperage is up to 124. The factory wiring diagram shows 6 guage cable with a 10 guage fuse link.

That is correct, the other quote you had was wrong. You want the fuse link size to be 2 'automotive' gauges smaller or 4 numbers so a 10 ga wire needs a 14 ga fuse link and your 6 ga needs a 10. They are usually about 8" long.

Fuse link wire can be bought bulk at lots of auto store or dealers even. It is kinda expensive, but what is fireproofing worth eh. It is not normal wire, but has a rubber fireproof insulation so it doesn't melt away from th heat it gives off. Plastic insulation may catch on fire over time.

It also needs a mechanical connection or crimp, not solder. Waterproof heatshrink over these crimps is a good idea.

[RED85]

High-Tech Rosin Core Silver-Bearing Solder (1.5 Oz.)
Model: 64-013 | Catalog #: 64-013

This special rosin core solder is ideal for surface-mount devices. 62/36/2% tin/lead/silver formula.

Jeephammer............did you read what the Underwriter Ladoratories stated

as for it intended use ? (Minor Projects) electrions
62% tin 36% lead 2% silver

i wonder why it's has a Product Diameter 0.022 inches and you have to double it?

maybe..........i think because it's not rated for 500 amps and will "blow out"

in all my years working in the trade i have never seen ANY solder used on anything but lightning protection and if i remember correct it was 95% silver and 5%tin

Tool & Equipment Rental
http://rpleasing.com/products.shtml
Hypress for cable Lugs $35

[Cjwho]

How many feet of welding cable should i get for this upgrade? I have a 81 cj7 laredo with 304. Thanks

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by Mike Romain

When doing a long hard haul like pulling a dead truck hulk out of a ravine to the trail on an area clean up, I managed to get the ends of my winch cable hot enough to blow the heat shrink off them. This would have melted solder I bet, it was just smoking hot.

In that case, you can use actual SILVER SOLDER which takes a Oxy torch to melt...
Once these are together, you are very near the melting point of the copper it's self, so they should stay together for you.

You can always start with larger heat shrink, slip it over the smaller end of the terminals, and replace what burned...

----------------------------------------

Jeephammer............did you read what the Underwriter Ladoratories stated

as for it intended use ? (Minor Projects) electrions
62% tin 36% lead 2% silver

i wonder why it's has a Product Diameter 0.022 inches and you have to double it?

maybe..........i think because it's not rated for 500 amps and will "blow out"

in all my years working in the trade i have never seen ANY solder used on anything but lightning protection and if i remember correct it was 95% silver and 5%tin

Well, maybe you should take into consideration the CRIMP I'm using, and the terminals I recommend...
(and actually READ the posts before commenting on something you missed!)

Most of the contact (and current) is taken care of by CRIMP of VIRGIN COPPER to COPPER TERMINALS.
That is the whole idea of using a good copper conductor, good copper terminals, and a solid, hard crimp!
(...we do this all the time! don't get scared!)

The solder is there to seal up the connection, and make sure the rest of the surface area isn't going to waste inside the connector or the surface of the wire isn't going to waste and doing SOMETHING instead of corroding.

Besides, I've NEVER seen solder 'BLOW OUT' of a connection.
I've seen it melt, dry out, and evaporate,
but I've NEVER seen it BLOW OUT of anything...

The solder you are referring to is actual 'SILVER SOLDER',
And I use it in connections that get VERY HOT sometimes...

And if you ever have a connection that liquefies,
Concerns about the insulation burning away would be the FIRST of my worries....

You should switch from WELDING CABLE, to something that has a FIRE PROOF rating instead of a Fire Resistant rating like welding cable does.

(another 'Sky Is Falling' type...
Can't be much wrong with this for as many of us that are running it with NO PROBLEMS!)

----------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Cjwho

How many feet of welding cable should i get for this upgrade? I have a 81 cj7 laredo with 304. Thanks

Takes about Two Feet EACH WAY to get to the starter and back,
And another foot to 18" to get from battery to starter relay.

Measure your current cables,
Add about 4" each side for future terminals (the cable will LONG outlast the terminals!) and buy about that amount.

[kpauley]

Anyone on the list making battery cables like this and want to sell them to me? :-)

I'm looking for 3 cables, so not tons, and I don't think I want to invest in a few tools I may need to do it (and have not been lucky finding a welding store to do the ends yet). If someone is setup to do this and wants to make a couple bucks at the same time, please let me know. Or if you know of a place that won't totally rip me off on this (either over the Internet or in the SF Bay Area).

I need a cable that goes from the POS battery to the solenoid, one from the NEG battery to the starter and one from the solenoid to the starter. Longest one would be 42", I have all the measurements.

I figured standard top post connectors, the winch seems to have good cables with ring connectors on the end, I thought I could mount those to the bolts that tighten the lugs on the battery, or if there was a better battery lug with an accessory stud, that would be even better.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by kpauley

Anyone on the list making battery cables like this and want to sell them to me? :-)

I'm looking for 3 cables, so not tons, and I don't think I want to invest in a few tools I may need to do it (and have not been lucky finding a welding store to do the ends yet). If someone is setup to do this and wants to make a couple bucks at the same time, please let me know. Or if you know of a place that won't totally rip me off on this (either over the Internet or in the SF Bay Area).

I need a cable that goes from the POS battery to the solenoid, one from the NEG battery to the starter and one from the solenoid to the starter. Longest one would be 42", I have all the measurements.

I figured standard top post connectors, the winch seems to have good cables with ring connectors on the end, I thought I could mount those to the bolts that tighten the lugs on the battery, or if there was a better battery lug with an accessory stud, that would be even better.

Measure and diagram your current cables, and contact me on PM,
I'm sure we can work something out if you can't find the components on your own...

I have the tools and the 'Know How', all I'm lacking is AMBITION!

I already know the stud sizes on the starter, starter relay, ect.
I need to know what type of battery terminals you need (3/8" stud or standard 'Post' type battery terminal)

And how long the primary (heavy) cables need to be,

And how many 'Accessory' wires you need and how long they need to be.

I 'Almost Always' add extra smaller wires to the arrangment, and I add a few extra inches of wire to the mix to allow for future end terminal replacment.
Once you buy the wire, there is no sense in buying it again once the terminals go south, just crimp on new, heat shrink again and you are 'Good To Go' for another 10 years!

Normally, I crimp in 4 Ga. for the starter connections,
Unless you have cold weather, where 2 Ga. would be better.

I usually add a HEAVY wire to the 'Ground' or negative battery terminal so you can have a dedicated grounding block under the hood that isn't attached directly to the battery (Keeps corrosion down),
Then you can go from a 'Grounding Post' out to accessories with dedicated ground wires,

And I usually have at least 1 extra 10 Ga. wire connected to the positive side of the battery for 'Accessories'...
Secondary fuse block, ect.

With the Ford style starter relay, you are better off taking your accessory power off the battery cable side of the starter relay,
Again, for corrosion resistance and safety issues.

A diagram of what you intend to do would be nice so I can 'tweak' it to your specific application and make things look professional.

[Cjwho]

I would like to be second on this list Hammer. I am in the same boat as kpauley. If you would be up to it i can PM you the info you asked for. Just thought i would ask.......