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Unread 03-06-2012, 05:54 PM   #16
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,689
Depending on your skill level,
I would get the $50 Jeep/Motorcraft distributor since it plugs into, and uses the parts you have.


If you are planning on fuel injection down the road,
You can use either distributor for fuel injection,
I have a similar 'Conversion' for for the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor to GM Fuel Injection module that about everyone uses and/or builds for.

This Particular thread is a direct refute of information posted earler that you COULD NOT use the older breaker point distributors for electronic breaker-less ignitions, or injections.
The facts are, this is a GREAT distributor to use for conversion, since it costs you virtually nothing to convert the distributor,
And with the MSD cap/rotor outperforms all the $300-$500 'HEI Clone' versions,
Plus it fits better, doesn't bang into the power steering pump like the full size HEI clones do.

Since we aren't running 7,000 or 8,000 RPM racing engines,
There really isn't a need for 'Billet' housings, roller bearings, or the $300-$500 cost that goes with that crap...

----------------

This also GRAPHICALLY illustrates the fact you can use the old vacuum advance to set rotor phasing, which several 'Internet Experts' have claimed you simply can't do.

-----------------

If you have money to throw down, and don't want to take a day out to convert the distributor,
(your day is worth more than $300-$500) the buy an already converted distributor or 'Clone'.

If your day is worth 'Less' than $300-$500, then this is a HUGE money savings!
And it fits the engine better than the 'Internet' distributors do.

Personally, I've done this in an office chair between people annoying the crap out of me at work,
I use basic tools,
Screw driver, 1/8" Punch, Hammer, Hack Saw, 4" Angle Grinder, Dremel Tool, Small Clamp On Vice on the desk top, ect.
I didn't want to use ANYTHING the 'Average' guy doesn't have at home.

This takes about an hour or so to fabricate the aluminum block for the heat sink,
If you are making a reasonable size 'HEI' with vacuum advance, you don't even need the aluminum block.

The rest of it takes about 3-4 hours. (not counting cleaning up the parts and painting or whatever you want to do with it before final assembly).

Before this is over, I'll show how to hook up an MSD or other CDI to fuel injection,
Something else many people say can't be done, but it's actually pretty simple....

--------------------------

NOW!
If you consider fuel injection costs,
From very late 80's to about '93, GM vehicles had engine management, but not a lot of drive train sensors or control over the drive train...

I dislike 'Speed/Density' systems, mostly just 'Electronic Carbs' without the adjustability or simplicity of a lot of carbs.

With your Holley, some things like 'Off Road' needle and seats, raising the bowl vents up, making sure the power valve is correctly sized for your engine, and lowering the float level a little will make a HUGE difference in your off road capability.

Having side pivot float bowls instead of the big race car center pivot float bowls will make it MUCH more off road worthy when you tilt or roll the vehicle sideways...

The early speed/density systems (like the basic 'Howell') don't have any of the features I look for in a fuel injection system...

If it doesn't have a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor,
Then that system can't do even what a Holley or MC 2100 can do with a 'Power Valve'.
No vacuum signal to the computer, no vacuum (engine load) based fuel enrichment.
Howell might run at more extreme angles, but it won't tune a finely or run any better than a Holley or MC 2100.

If you get a fuel injection system that has EST (Electronic Spark Timing, no distributor vacuum advance),
That system had better incorporate a KNOCK SENSOR!
If you have something jacking the timing way up, it had better have a way to know it's gone too far, or you stand a VERY good chance of having a lot of detonation!
If there isn't a knock sensor and it has EST, then I start to wonder....???
(There is a reason the factory FI used a knock sensor with EST!)

Anyway, just plugging around wasting time... Hope you found it interesting...

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Unread 03-07-2012, 07:18 AM   #17
Zorty
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1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 105
Thanks for all the continued help Jeephammer, both on this issue and all the other threads I've used to help me with various parts of projects. While I think I have the tools and knowledge to convert the old points distributor I have, my impression/take away is that the newer reman Motorcraft distributor is still a better base package without too much cost involved. I'll plan on plunking down the $50 bucks and then matching my system with the MSD box to your other Teamrush articles on later model engines. Unfortunately I think I'll have to trade in my current distributor as a core cost at the parts store, so keeping it and converting it as a backup/future alternative is sadly probably not an option...
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Unread 03-07-2012, 08:24 AM   #18
jeepdaddy2000
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1971 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Secret Squirrel hideout, afghanistan
Posts: 6,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorty View Post
Thanks for all the continued help Jeephammer, both on this issue and all the other threads I've used to help me with various parts of projects. While I think I have the tools and knowledge to convert the old points distributor I have, my impression/take away is that the newer reman Motorcraft distributor is still a better base package without too much cost involved. I'll plan on plunking down the $50 bucks and then matching my system with the MSD box to your other Teamrush articles on later model engines. Unfortunately I think I'll have to trade in my current distributor as a core cost at the parts store, so keeping it and converting it as a backup/future alternative is sadly probably not an option...
Or you can try this....
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=56246
Dated 2006 BTW....
Binderplanets has an incredible EFI guy with Bill, and since they ran both AMC 6's and 8's, their database rolls over into our engines. They are also a really nice crew over there.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 08:31 AM   #19
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,689
The HEI style trigger for fuel injection works just as well with the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor later on.
It's no loss.

If the gear is good, take it before you core the one you have out, they don't reuse gears, so it's no loss to them.

This is mostly for the guys that were familiar with GM format distributors, but didn't want a large HEI interfering with the power steering pump, which is a problem with the Full Size HEI's.
It's a very neat, well fitting package when it's done this way.
And the fact it saves between $300 & $500 for an aftermarket 'Racing' distributor or HEI Clone doesn't hurt anything either!

It also clears up the rotor phasing issues, which PLAGUE Fuel Injection conversions!
That stupid rotor can be 30 degrees off, and very little you can do about it,
The vacuum advance 'Trick' I laid out gets the trigger in EXACTLY the correct position,
And the Phasable Rotor from MSD takes care of Rotor Phasing at the source without a bunch of complications coming along with getting things right for the ignition to be PRECISE.

As little as 4 to 6 degrees off at the trigger (Stator), and some fuel injection systems won't run at all,
This gives you ABSOLUTE CONTROL over trigger, so no guess work, no living with 'Close Enough',
No Fuel System in 'Open Loop' all the time and you can't figure out why...
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Unread 03-07-2012, 08:55 AM   #20
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
Or you can try this....
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=56246
Dated 2006 BTW....
Binderplanets has an incredible EFI guy with Bill, and since they ran both AMC 6's and 8's, their database rolls over into our engines. They are also a really nice crew over there.
I guess if you were working with a Holley Distributor for a binder, that would work...

The Ford trigger isn't quite a precise as the Chrysler or GM HEI style,
but it works for a Quick Conversions, The Ford trigger does have a WONDERFULLY STRONG SIGNAL!
If you want to do the work, the best signal STRENGTH is from the Ford trigger.

If you scroll through Bill's posts, you might also stumble onto the one where he first leans you can PRECISELY align the stator with the reluctor using the old vacuum advance...

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...t=46961&page=3

--------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
Good stuff (though the module wiring diagram seems to be missing an IMG tag at the end). I've seen people do the same distributor conversion with the 4-pin HEI module for non-EFI applications or EFI applications like Howell where the spark isn't controlled by the ECM.

Can you even use the seven or eight pin modules if your EFI does not have spark control? I don't believe you can.
Do you REALLY think the distributor cares what module hangs off that aluminum heat sink plate?
Use the 4 pin, use the 7 pin, use the 9 pin, the heat sink doesn't care.

JUST AT WHAT POINT DID YOU GUYS THINK I HAVEN'T THOUGH THIS THROUGH, TESTED AND RAN THESE DISTRIBUTORS?

I've been doing this since 1975!
I've been posting this since 1999 when I found the forums, my stuff is all over the place.

Experience Talks, nit pickers walk, how is your fuel injection running and what did you pay for it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
The Chevy distributor can't be adapted to the 304 without a ton of modification. You would almost be starting from scratch.
Again, Nit Picking...

Any REAL Jeep guy would know that there are TONS of Delco Remy distributors in AMC Jeeps,
SO THIS DIRECTLY APPLIES,

Not only to fuel injection guys, but anyone wanting a low budget ELECTRONIC TRIGGER DISTRIBUTOR.

These Delco Remy/AMC V-8 Distributor conversions are DIRT CHEAP to do, and fairly easy if you have half a brain, a few basic tools and can mange a dremel tool without hurting yourself...

For an electronic trigger, you mount the module,
You simply DO NOT lock down the centrifugal advance or eliminate the vacuum advance.

They work for EVERYONE for about $15 virtually ANYONE can convert the old breaker point distributors over to electronic trigger, add a module, pick up a $10 Ford E-core coil from the salvage yard and have just as much ignition as anyone running the $300 to $500 HEI Clones.

Reasonable cap, rotor, plug wires and you are simply BETTER than the HEI Clones on the market.

Why do you and Jeepdaddy think this is Voodoo? I just don't get it...

---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------

NOW, MORE OF WHAT WORKS AND HOW TO DO IT...

How about a '99 conversion from Delco to dual Chrysler trigger for precision and small cap diameter so it wasn't overly large...
I wanted to do some module testing, side by side in the same engine,
So I converted to dual triggers and dual ignitions I could switch between for data gathering. Turns out, it's pretty handy for trail redundancy also.

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj502.html

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj503.html

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj503a.html

----------------------------------------------

Or the dual ignition Motorcraft version for rescue vehicles I put together in '02 for Rocky Mountain Rescue's older vehicles, 54 older Ford and Jeep vehicles with dual ignitions for rescue workers...



-----------------------------------------------

Bill is doing VERY good work on Binder Planet, and he's not selling anything, so his information is unbiased.
That's why I tried to help out over there after someone here told me they were having 'Issues' with the large cap HEI distributor conversions...

And I'm trying to get folks here a little ahead of the 'Curve' so they know what to expect, and how to correct the 'Issues' that pop up when they convert these distributors.

Tools, sources and Information are NEVER a bad thing!

-------------------------------

THANKS MAX! I didn't have these pictures anymore!
When I uploaded them to Early Camaro, I didn't save them.
I expected they would live on the internet for ever, I'm glad you had copied the article!

A 2001 article on converting early Camaro distributor over to electronic trigger for fuel injection using the Ford style trigger,











I didn't see anything about a low budget way to taper the Ford reluctor so it doesn't need a set screw to hold it in place...

Or the low budget way to work down the breaker points cam lobes and keep them centered without a lathe...

That was all in the first article on early Camaro conversions about 2001 or 2002.
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