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Unread 04-13-2014, 07:47 PM   #1681
commadore64
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Its funny... a lot of people think silicone is the "fix-all" for everything.

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Unread 04-13-2014, 08:04 PM   #1682
Ken4444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commadore64 View Post
Its funny... a lot of people think silicone is the "fix-all" for everything.
Yeah, and the stuff is a real pain to remove. A wire wheel doesn't do it very well. A strip disk works OK but that doesn't get into corners.

I posted this in the paint and body forum to get help with how to fix a couple of different areas. Feel free to take a look at the pics there. One of the problems is where I backed the Jeep into my steel BBQ pit several months ago. doh!
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Unread 04-13-2014, 08:53 PM   #1683
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Ken,
On my jeep, that seam is filled with seam sealer. I am guessing that is what it is as it's hard like the seam sealer I removed in the engine bay at the joints. Also, after some investigation, it seems as the factory also put some kind of sealant behind the windshield hinges since they don't look to have been removed when my father in-law had the jeep back in the day. Hope all is well and let me know if you need any help.

Brad

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Well, I have started the ball rolling down the road to fixing the exterior body rust holes. While I'm in the area, can anyone tell me how this seam is supposed to be sealed or constructed? (circled in red, with red arrow pointing to it) The PO ran a bead of silicone along it.
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Unread 04-16-2014, 11:39 AM   #1684
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I would guess it was seam sealer too. Mine has just a small radius cove at that intersection. It's lower than the cowl's top surface. I can't find a pic though.
Heres what I did at my ws./cowl gasket 15 years prior to these pics. Don't underestimate rtv silicone. Let the bead setup/cure before putting the gasket down. That way it's sealed to the bottom and the gasket will compress around it. I did behind my hinges too. Now they were both primed and painted first. I put a circle around all the bolt holes but didn't let it setup before I bolted on the hinges.



I should've done the small mirror mount holes too.
As for the area near there that you started a thread about repairing. I don't know if you seen my thread and the repair to it I did but I posted some pics on it for you.
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Unread 04-16-2014, 11:59 AM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
...Don't underestimate rtv silicone. Let the bead setup/cure before putting the gasket down.
That's a good idea. I wouldn't have thought of that.

After examining the new cowl gasket, I am more and more intrigued about how water gets past it, into the Jeep. It seems that if it's properly installed using tape on the top lip, it would be water resistant. In my Jeep there is rust damage to the bottom of the windshield frame, but the surface under the cowl gasket is pristine. So this leads me to wonder how the water was getting behind the dash panel, inside the Jeep It must have been going from the top side of the cowl gasket to the various holes in the gasket (defroster holes, screw holes). The screws that hold the gasket to the windshield frame are pretty rusty.
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Unread 04-16-2014, 12:23 PM   #1686
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Is the rust on the bottom of the ws frame from the inside or the outside? Because if it can penetrate the ws frame anywhere, ie: light brackets, soft top snaps, bikini track mount holes, or the hinge holes; it's headed downhill once it's in. Same with the pinch weld around the glass seal. I dabbed silicone over any little hole or gap in the frames 2 pc. seam. I'll do it again this time too but I also coated the inside of it with Eastwood's internal frame paint.
If it's not coming from the inside maybe a bead laid on the bottom edge towards the front (of the frame) and let to setup will do the same as the bottom bead and allow the cowl seal to conform around it.
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Unread 04-17-2014, 08:48 AM   #1687
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Get the rest of the wheels yet?
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Unread 04-17-2014, 09:25 AM   #1688
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Get the rest of the wheels yet?
Yes sir! They showed up earlier this week on time. Between work and family life, I have been super busy. I could convey all of the details, but will avoid that as not to bore everyone.

I scrubbed down the other 3 wheels with soap and water to inspect them a bit more closely. All 4 wheels were made on the same day, month, and year so that's neat to have a matching set of 4. My spare wheel is roughly a year newer. One of the wheels had a couple of dings in the outer lip and I was able to improve those a bit. They are 30+ years old, after all.

I called one of the big local wheel repair shops and they have a $90 minimum per wheel so it wasn't really worth having them look at it.

So, I pulled the spare tire/wheel off the CJ and had Discount Tire dismount the tire again. In order to avoid having to do anything again, I figured I should just get all 5 wheels cleaned, blasted, and powder coated. So, I will have 5 matching wheels. I will use the best 4 for road use, and the 5th one for the spare tire.

After working until about 2:30 AM this morning, I got up at 6 AM to start my day, got the family stuff handled, and I hauled all 5 wheels to Precision Powder Coating by about 8:15 AM.

I also brought them the 2 CJ black windshield brackets because the paint on those has never been right due to contamination. They do small parts for a minimum of $4 each, so I figured as long as they're doing 5 wheels, what's another 8 bucks? The turnaround time should be 10 to 14 days, but since I'm in the middle of this body work, I'm not in a hurry.

Precision Powder seems like a good place. It's a small, family-run operation in maybe a 7,500 sq. ft. warehouse. They do work for both industrial and individual customers. After dropping off my wheels and brackets, I asked for a quick tour and John Gauthier, the owner, showed me around. They were in the middle of coating what looked like a gigantic press. The thing had to be 8 feet tall and must have weighed thousands of pounds. I also saw the customer pickup area which was full of parts waiting to be picked up. I saw a good variety of stuff: bicycle frames, brake calipers, street signs, fishing rod racks for boats, inner automobile fenders, and much more.

One thing John mentioned thing that was interesting: He said they run many parts through the oven for 6 hours before media blasting them. This helps remove crud and debris that would otherwise end up in the blasting media and I guess shorten its life. The goal is ultimately to completely remove contamination from the final piece before it is coated.

So, we'll see how the final products turn out but I am optimistic. It does feel good to support a local, family-run operation. I am always looking for possible neat work opportunities for my sons when they are in high school or college, so I asked about this. There were no openings at this time, but I have 6 or 8 years anyhow.

Here's the business card for Precision Powder Coating:
prrecision-powder-coating-business-card-800.jpg

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Unread 04-18-2014, 12:48 PM   #1689
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That's a little hike from the west side of town, even with the tollway. Looking forward to seeing how they end up.
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Unread 04-18-2014, 04:08 PM   #1690
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That's a little hike from the west side of town, even with the tollway. Looking forward to seeing how they end up.
I took the Beltway 8 tollway around to 45 north and then to the Louetta exit which I missed and spent another 10 minutes getting back to Louetta. I left the west side of town at 7:20, dropped off the wheels, chatted with the owner, got 10 gallons of gas, and got to work in the west side by about 9:20. I had told my boss I would be in around 10 so the trip was quicker than I expected.

Today I am constructing a spring-powered tennis ball shooter for the coaches competition for the 2014 Odyssey of the Mind world competition in May, so no Jeep work today, just lots of welding and hack fabrication
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Unread 04-19-2014, 08:29 PM   #1691
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It's the little things on an old Jeep that take time. Add all those little things up, and that's why an old Jeep takes so much time.

The screws that hold the hinges into the windshield frame, the side, top screws, have always been cross threaded and I've never been able to get those screws in right. They always go in at an angle. Since the windshield has been on my workbench all week, I thought I'd clean up all of the screw holes and see if I could fix the two where the screws go in crooked.

First I used an awl to scrape out the grime, paint, and white latex caulk from the nut area. Because the nuts are behind the windshield body, there's a crevice where crap accumulates. It took me about 45 minutes to scrap all of the crud out using the awl, a small steel brush, and some alcohol-based electrical cleaner (that's all I had, but it was great at blasting stuff out of the crevices and nut threads). I felt like a dentist working on 30 year old teeth that had never been cleaned.

Then I used some anti seize and a windshield hinge screw and worked that in and out of the 6 holes that weren't boogered up. Amazingly after cleaning things up, those 6 holes were great and the screws went in well, much easier than before the work.

On the final 2 holes (one hole per side), I ended up using a tap to re-thread the nuts. This was pretty quick on one side but the other side took 4 or 5 attempts to get it going. I used some light machine oil to speed things along and grab some of the metal shavings. Finally, the tap grabbed on and started threading into the hole. I would turn it 1/4 or 1/2 a turn, back it out slightly, do another 1/4 turn, back out a bit, etc. After about half of the tap was in, it was clear that the threads were cut all the way in and the remainder went in easily without needing to push on it.

I cleaned the hole out with more electrical contact cleaner (it dries almost instantly) to remove the metal pieces, then ran in a screw with anti seize. The thread had just a slight wobble unless it was in tight, but I think the hole will be just fine to hold the screw when I get things back together.

Also on this second hole I had to bend down the outer lip of the windshield frame outward slightly because the screw head would not clear the frame. I suspect this is a typical AMC Jeep quality problem, but that's pure speculation. I will probably grind off 1/16" of the lip and bend it back to the correct position.

My windshield has the aftermarket Bestop aluminum channel screwed to the top of it. This is the channel that holds the front edge of the full soft top or the bikini top. I removed that a few days and discovered that it was installed over some other screw holes, perhaps where the factory snaps were screwed in. So that's one place water could have been getting into the windshield frame. I mixed up some epoxy glue and glued those shut and hit some other areas where 2 layers of sheet metal were layered on top of each other (top corners).

I remember reading Scott's (skerr's) build thread for Clay and the problems they had repairing that CJ windshield frame. The problem is that the metal is so thin. I now totally understand that yes, this metal is thin. It is thin and the whole thing is poorly constructed. I am an amateur welder and would not weld on the thing unless I had no other choice. It's no surprise these things are notorious for rotting away because if you get surface rust then you're already in hot water. I definitely want to coat the inside of my windshield frame with something to give it some rust resistance for the future.

Tomorrow I hope to make the trek to the NE side of town to pick up an original sheet metal body 'triangle' part that looks to be in better condition than mine.

I also hope to cut out more outside body rust tomorrow and get those areas prepped to get new metal. We'll see.

In other news, I have like 1/5 of a can of PPG Shopline epoxy primer left. Something tells me that's not going to be enough and I should buy a new can before I even get ready to spray primer. Heck, I don't have any more mixing cups anyhow so I need those at least. And wax and grease remover. And general paint cleaner/solvent. It never ends. Cha-ching.

So, it's one small thing at a time.
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Unread 04-20-2014, 02:40 PM   #1692
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I drilled out the 2 lower door hinges. The Torx screw heads were long stripped out. The hinges themselves are in great shape. The backing nut plates have some surface rust but nothing bad. You will see the hinge pieces are (I guess) cadmium plated. The inner plates aren't.





The screws on the driver's side are different than the passenger side. The driver's side screws have an non-threaded end which sure comes in handy. I don't know the name for this. The other ones are more standard with the threads going all the way to the end.



I made the trek over to Dayton, Texas which is about 60 miles from my place on the west side of Houston. I met James (Jeepform user 88_yj) who was not only kind enough to send me photos of the parts, but he also gave me the parts. He even gave me a new cutoff wheel after mine was consumed and then he stepped in with a saws-all when the cutoff wheel wasn't deep enough. I paid him for the parts anyhow. It was the least I could do.

James replied to my post on the "Another Houston Get Together" thread which serves as a general purpose means of communicating with folks in the Houston area.

The tub in question was halfway crushed at the scrap yard before they realized he had to title for it, so be brought it home a bit banged up.

James has quite a collection of Jeeps and parts including a couple of old Waggies, 2 CJ tubs, a working YJ with a 4BT in it, and one of his family has a running Scrambler. He even had a set of CJ wagon wheels that were covered in bed liner. If I'd only known about those a few weeks ago.



The triangle body piece is slightly bent and has some surface rust, but it's in far better shape than the one on my tub.





It took some work to get this part out because of all the supporting steel behind it. It was a hack cut out job!



James was kind enough to let me grab this while I was in the area. I don't need it for my tub, but it will make a great piece of art.



I haven't gotten any body work done today other than measuring the 4 rocker panel areas that will get new steel. My plan is to cut the new steel first then use those parts as templates to mark the lines to be cut.

I did manage to bake 2 loaves of bread. Once those are done we're off to the family Easter dinner.
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Unread 04-21-2014, 08:14 PM   #1693
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Outer body sheet metal removal

Tonight I started in on the major outer body work. I have a new found dislike of diamond plate on Jeeps because that's a really evil, evil way to hide a serious problem and probably make it even worse by trapping water.

I cut holes in 4 areas. First, we see the driver's side:



Close up of the same area showing the structural brace eaten away:



Here's the area after the removal of part of the floor and the rotted brace:



Here's the part that came out:



To the rear of that last hole, we have a smaller one:



Wider shot showing both holes on the driver's side:



Now we move to the passenger's side. I hit 2 areas there although they were not as bad as the other side:



Slightly closer shot. You can see a layer of body filler:



Here's the 4th hole, passenger side, in front of the rear wheel. I was originally going to cut it larger but decided to go a bit smaller:



Under the lower door hinges the metal is in good shape:



The aftermath. I can't say enough good things about my Harbor Freight angle grinder. Of course this doesn't make up for some of shoddy crap they sell.



I headed to Turner Hardware at lunch today to pick up a short list of stainless steel screws and bolts. Unfortunately they didn't have everything so I will have to get the windshield hinge screws and at least one other kind of screws online.



As I was cutting out the rust and digging a deeper and deeper hole, I started to get worried about all of the work that will be required to rebuild all of the tub. It's not the outer sides that's difficult... it's the inner parts that will require a lot of time to cut and fit. I will have to have the discipline to work on this every day to get through it.

Next I need to cut out the triangle area on the driver's side. Based on the replacement part I have, I think I have a plan about exactly where I will cut the old stuff out.

If anyone has any tips on rebuilding the areas I'll be tackling, I'd love to hear your input.
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Unread 04-22-2014, 10:47 AM   #1694
Renegade82
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I think you've got it under control, it sounds like a good plan. Just be sure to treat and paint every piece/area before you cover it up or enclose it. For my new metal I used self etching weld-thru primer but the rusted stuff I used prep-n-etch, then either POR or Internal Frame paint. And if I needed to spot or plug weld with that stuff I just used a cutoff tool and ground away the paint in that spot. But don't breath in while welding it.
It's too late now but I found that Tractor Supply carried "contractor packs" in their S.S. drawer for washers and nuts, usually a 10 pk., for much cheaper than buying them individually. And you'll always need more.
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Unread 04-22-2014, 12:05 PM   #1695
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Rust, well, sucks

.

I'm replacing the entire rocker panel on a scrambler.
140421_0004.jpg  
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