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Unread 02-25-2010, 02:05 PM   #91
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Just bought a running 1981 Wagoneer- 360 74000 miles. $500 Looks good. Been sitting in a barn- dry- for the last 3 years. Pigeon pooh everywhere. Typical rust and what not. Saggy driver door. Back gate doesn't work.

OK for a daily driver until I ever figure out what's going on with the "new-in-box-Dana 60" front end. If it isn't complete I can always tear into the Waggy for 44s I suppose. 44,60?

What's the best thing for a 360? Use it or loose it. Now I have another engine. Anyone ever put TBI on one of these babies?

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Unread 02-25-2010, 08:22 PM   #92
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To the Op slow down your kinda all over the place

First question is the chevy front that you have a SRW ( Single rear wheel ) or does it have DRW ( duel rear wheels ) on it, and yes I'm talking about the front.
Second all chevys are King pin. Ford swapped to balljoints in 91.5. Certon year fords are harder to install if you plan on using leaf springs. I know your looking at long arms so that rules that out.

Now to shorten a axle shaft, it cost me localy 110.00 dollars to have one cut and re-splined, but that is just the shaft. To do the tube work I do that myself, but charge local peaple 250.00 for a cut and re-weld of the outer C.
So save your money there and just run deeper offset rims, like H2's or H1's.

Peaple dont weld on any ford parts to Chevy outers. What the other guy is posting about is using Chevy outers on a Ford axle. Why, well guys used to run the dana 70 stubs witch are 35 spline 1.5" ( outers ). So in order to run those you needed the Chevy knuckle, spindle, brake's and the hub.
Now there are plenty of companys that make the 35 spline stubs to fit the Ford hubs. So you can keep those if needed.

Now for the rear dont waste time on a dana 60 fullfloat axle. Why, well theres only one dana 60 out there with 35 spline shafts factory and that was in a Chevy conversion van from the 70's. Very hard to find and not worth it when a dana 70U is out there and easyer to find. The U models have a very smooth bottom, 35 spline shafts and a huge R&P.

Me I run a shaved 14 bolt, been there for 5 ( hard ) years and no breakage to date. For the front I run a 88 Ford dana 60 with the stock inner and outer axle's. I'm not easy on my Jeep, but I never broke eather axle, T-case parts plenty ( FYI dont run a 231HD with 39's ).

After years of running a 60/14 bolt I would run them even if i had 33" tire's. The fact that I go out play hard and not break axle's or any parts in them is a great feeling.
This is info in a nut shell, I skimmed on a few of the points I saw. If you have more questions fire away, but try to pick a drivtrain direction.

I like the idea of the 205, its stupid proof and later on down the road a duobler can be installed.
Oh a little prodject I'm working on for a friend duel steer axle's, narrowed, tussed and linked






And the rear is done just no Pics.
Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

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Unread 02-25-2010, 08:43 PM   #93
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Jason- Thanks for explaining this for me. I asked Jeremy at throttledowncustoms to install the coil buckets and control arm mounts at the standard locations on the frame. I had planned on using standard length control arms with little lift (2" with maybe 1" for the body). I'll open up the wheel wells on the clip and tub as needed.

I'm not really after hugely articulating suspension.

This new boxed Chevy Dana 60 is supposed to be a SW with brakes included. I spoke about running rims with more offset and was told it was too hard on the hubs- but on a 1 ton axle with this little weight?? I couldn't believe it would be a problem overloading the bearings. The only drawback I could envision would be having more of the locking hubs exposed for snagging logs and stones...

Thanks for letting me know what you think about running big rear-ends with smaller tires. Big deal if I don't have or want giant rubber- I can still get great use out of the big axles being installed.

I should know pretty soon exactly what I have here with the front end and I'll get back to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
To the Op slow down your kinda all over the place

First question is the chevy front that you have a SRW ( Single rear wheel ) or does it have DRW ( duel rear wheels ) on it, and yes I'm talking about the front.
Second all chevys are King pin. Ford swapped to balljoints in 91.5. Certon year fords are harder to install if you plan on using leaf springs. I know your looking at long arms so that rules that out.

Now to shorten a axle shaft, it cost me localy 110.00 dollars to have one cut and re-splined, but that is just the shaft. To do the tube work I do that myself, but charge local peaple 250.00 for a cut and re-weld of the outer C.
So save your money there and just run deeper offset rims, like H2's or H1's.

Peaple dont weld on any ford parts to Chevy outers. What the other guy is posting about is using Chevy outers on a Ford axle. Why, well guys used to run the dana 70 stubs witch are 35 spline 1.5" ( outers ). So in order to run those you needed the Chevy knuckle, spindle, brake's and the hub.
Now there are plenty of companys that make the 35 spline stubs to fit the Ford hubs. So you can keep those if needed.

Now for the rear dont waste time on a dana 60 fullfloat axle. Why, well theres only one dana 60 out there with 35 spline shafts factory and that was in a Chevy conversion van from the 70's. Very hard to find and not worth it when a dana 70U is out there and easyer to find. The U models have a very smooth bottom, 35 spline shafts and a huge R&P.

Me I run a shaved 14 bolt, been there for 5 ( hard ) years and no breakage to date. For the front I run a 88 Ford dana 60 with the stock inner and outer axle's. I'm not easy on my Jeep, but I never broke eather axle, T-case parts plenty ( FYI dont run a 231HD with 39's ).

After years of running a 60/14 bolt I would run them even if i had 33" tire's. The fact that I go out play hard and not break axle's or any parts in them is a great feeling.
This is info in a nut shell, I skimmed on a few of the points I saw. If you have more questions fire away, but try to pick a drivtrain direction.

I like the idea of the 205, its stupid proof and later on down the road a duobler can be installed.
Oh a little prodject I'm working on for a friend duel steer axle's, narrowed, tussed and linked






And the rear is done just no Pics.
Jason.
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Unread 02-25-2010, 08:56 PM   #94
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The deeper offset will not hurt the KP's or the upper cone's. Alot of guys run H1's witch are 7"s deeper offset and are a heavy rim. Even H2's witch are ALU are at 5"s offset. Having the locking hubs stick out, they may snag a rock or two here and there but who care's its a One Ton axle, you break it.

I have H2's for my buggy and they will see plenty of rocks once I'm done, I could care less about the hub its a one ton..

Back to the offest of the rims and over loading them. Its not going to happen period. Look at a DRW front 60. The wheel mounting surface is what ( dont make me go out in the wet snow and messure one of my axle's ) 8-10"s away from the center line of the KP.
I had a one ton Chevy that I plowed with. I had a 9 foot fisher ( old school fisher ) slung on the front of it for years with a BB 454. I never had a KP or bearing problem.

Proper maintance go's along way. And seeing your TPI motor in your profile and just seeing what your doing here with this build tells me you do proper maintance.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 02-26-2010, 02:37 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
The deeper offset will not hurt the KP's or the upper cone's. Alot of guys run H1's witch are 7"s deeper offset and are a heavy rim. Even H2's witch are ALU are at 5"s offset. Having the locking hubs stick out, they may snag a rock or two here and there but who care's its a One Ton axle, you break it.

I have H2's for my buggy and they will see plenty of rocks once I'm done, I could care less about the hub its a one ton..

Back to the offest of the rims and over loading them. Its not going to happen period. Look at a DRW front 60. The wheel mounting surface is what ( dont make me go out in the wet snow and messure one of my axle's ) 8-10"s away from the center line of the KP.
I had a one ton Chevy that I plowed with. I had a 9 foot fisher ( old school fisher ) slung on the front of it for years with a BB 454. I never had a KP or bearing problem.

Proper maintance go's along way. And seeing your TPI motor in your profile and just seeing what your doing here with this build tells me you do proper maintance.

Jason.
That's nice clean work you're doing there.

Here is a pic of Humvee rubber with what looks to me to be pretty deep backspacing on the rims:



These should help narrow my track somewhat but what will it do to my turning radius I wonder? Is it possible to still have a pretty tight turning radius with these big tires and wider axles? I have nver seen a Jeep CJ/TJ turn with big tires and axles. Sure, narrow axles and big tires blow, but what about with a wider axle I wonder?
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Unread 02-26-2010, 04:12 PM   #96
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H1's were my second choice. Problem for me with them is there only in a 16.5" rim and I wanted to run red lable's witch are 17" tire's.

To run the H1's on a SRW Chevy hub you need to chop off the stock OEM steering arm or the rim will hit. The other option is to run a wheel spacer so it clears the OEM arm on the knuckle, but that kinda defeets the idea of deep offset rims.

So High steer arms are all most a must to run the H1, well you have to. You chopped off OEM arm, LOL.
FYI H1's are 7" of back spaceing so they will really suck the rim in. You will get some hubs stick out but who care's there one ton hubs, they wont break.

For the rear 14 bolt H1's should clear with little effort, only issue some run into is the offset is so deep that they can hit or get in the way of the lower links. So plan the lowers out real well.
A rear SRW 14 bolt is 67"s WMS and a SRW chevy 60 is 69"s WMS so if you have to you can run a 1" wheel spacer on each side for the 14 bolt to help clear or make some room for the lower links.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 02-26-2010, 06:01 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
H1's were my second choice. Problem for me with them is there only in a 16.5" rim and I wanted to run red lable's witch are 17" tire's.

To run the H1's on a SRW Chevy hub you need to chop off the stock OEM steering arm or the rim will hit. The other option is to run a wheel spacer so it clears the OEM arm on the knuckle, but that kinda defeets the idea of deep offset rims.

So High steer arms are all most a must to run the H1, well you have to. You chopped off OEM arm, LOL.
FYI H1's are 7" of back spaceing so they will really suck the rim in. You will get some hubs stick out but who care's there one ton hubs, they wont break.

For the rear 14 bolt H1's should clear with little effort, only issue some run into is the offset is so deep that they can hit or get in the way of the lower links. So plan the lowers out real well.
A rear SRW 14 bolt is 67"s WMS and a SRW chevy 60 is 69"s WMS so if you have to you can run a 1" wheel spacer on each side for the 14 bolt to help clear or make some room for the lower links.

Jason.
Wow. You are a fountain of knowledge here. 16.5s are an odd sort of size I've been told and up here (maybe everywhere) many would choose 17s instead. But- what about these?? What a great price AND free shipping:

MILITARY TIRES 37/12.50-16.5 HUMMER H1 HUMVEE HMMWV 95% : eBay Motors (item 110491980792 end time Mar-10-10 06:33:29 PST)

and these:

5 Military H1 Humvee Double Beadlock Wheels 16.5" : eBay Motors (item 200443934932 end time Mar-27-10 20:16:06 PDT)

Maybe I should just go 16.5 ... Sooooo - too soon to decide. Need the axles first but at least there are currently cheaper possible ways to go big AND not get tossed out of the house by the wifey! ;-)

If I could make these work then I'ld buy them without a second thought.

I may hear about the axle again tonight... waiting on pins and needles here with hope! - Beer time!
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Unread 02-26-2010, 06:35 PM   #98
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i cant wait to see this build, its my dream jeep!! What drivetrain?
didnt you read the title, its is a freaking hybrid man! it will have a prius drivetrain !
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Unread 02-26-2010, 06:38 PM   #99
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Will a 17" with the same H1 7" backspacing allow the OEM arm to be used?
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Unread 02-26-2010, 06:39 PM   #100
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didnt you read the title, its is a freaking hybrid man! it will have a prius drivetrain !
Oh baby! I'm starting to like this tread title afterall.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 07:01 PM   #101
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Oh baby! I'm starting to like this tread title afterall.
Prove it.

Toyota Prius "Hybrid" Fender Emblems (Both) - OEM NEW! : eBay Motors (item 130320364416 end time Mar-19-10 10:10:26 PDT)
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I see you also twizzled your scart lead. Well done! :thumbsup:
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Unread 02-26-2010, 07:04 PM   #102
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Will a 17" with the same H1 7" backspacing allow the OEM arm to be used?
I think you mean a H2 rim, there the 17" rim not the H1 witch is a 16.5. Yes OEM arms can be used with a H2 rim, they have a deeper back spaceing but not as deep as the H1 ( witch is 7" ). The H2 is a 5" ( I'm 99% sure its 5" ) back spaced and a 17" rim along with it being a ALU rim verse a steel ( heavy ) H1.

But the draw back to the H2 is its "NOT" a doubdle bead lock like his older brother the H1. But there a clean looking rim and normally found in the 300-400 range, thats not to bad for a ALU rim.

A inner Air lock witch acts like a inner tube but much stronger can be inserted into the rimm. Now the tire can safely be deflaited to a PSI range of 2-3 pounds without loosing a bead.

Jason.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 07:15 PM   #103
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Oh yeah. That would be cool. I'll wait until Toyota gets roasted a little more. Maybe the price will drop a bit.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 07:16 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
I think you mean a H2 rim, there the 17" rim not the H1 witch is a 16.5. Yes OEM arms can be used with a H2 rim, they have a deeper back spaceing but not as deep as the H1 ( witch is 7" ). The H2 is a 5" ( I'm 99% sure its 5" ) back spaced and a 17" rim along with it being a ALU rim verse a steel ( heavy ) H1.

But the draw back to the H2 is its "NOT" a doubdle bead lock like his older brother the H1. But there a clean looking rim and normally found in the 300-400 range, thats not to bad for a ALU rim.

A inner Air lock witch acts like a inner tube but much stronger can be inserted into the rimm. Now the tire can safely be deflaited to a PSI range of 2-3 pounds without loosing a bead.

Jason.
I was thinking that I may find some other non-hummer rim, maybe still steel in 8 lug 17" with the 7" backspacing.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 07:19 PM   #105
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I was thinking that I may find some other non-hummer rim, maybe still steel in 8 lug 17" with the 7" backspacing.
Probally Dodge. The newer Dodge trucks used a 17" rim with a deeper offset. Not sure what that is but they sound like Dodge to me.

Good rims and nothing a weld on bead lock cant solve

Jason.
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