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Jim's new hybrid Scrambler build- tons of questions coming!

436K views 2K replies 124 participants last post by  Jim1611 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi guys,

I've sold off my YJ with the LT1 engine and megasquirted TPI on top to help finance my Scrambler build.I'll start off to answer you first question- "Why TJ Tech Forum?" <edit>Moved now to CJ Forum</edit> Well, the hybrid Scrambler frame I had throttledowncustoms.com build for me is a hybrid with 4 corner coils and control arms- TJ style.

<edit>June 16th/2011- thread moved to CJ forum where the real round headlights live:p</edit>

I have a Aqualu Scrambler tub being delivered to my home tomorrow for it. With the rolling CJ7 I have my eye on I'll turn it into a CJ7/8 one-off.
Then

Now


I've had the replacement frame setup to take a 20 gal poly YJ tank just rear of the rear axle (CJ7 style) rather than use a deeper Scrambler poly tank between the last two members.

The 8 control arm mounts match TJs. I'll be using ironman4x4fab solid arms. [EDIT] Now Currie double Johnny Jointed [/EDIT]

OK- First really big question. Axles? I want to use Dana 60s front and rear. I have an NP205 Chevy pass drop tcase. I'll look for a Chevy style D60 for the pass side pumpkin.

What are the drawbacks if I just use full width axles? Any thoughts appreciated. [EDIT]Used full width with H2 rims. They have 5.5 inches backspacing)[/EDIT]

Edited Dec 2010 For new readers. The first 10 to 15 pages are me asking lots of questions... and getting very great answers
  1. Went with 1 Tons- Ford '95 Dana 60 front and Sterling 1 Ton rear. It took months of deliberation to settle on what axles to use. After months of searching I found these two trucks and bought them both. Both 1 tons. : Donor truck and new daily driver
  2. Picked up a sweet 5.0: Engine- Explorer 5.0 It wasn't this engine- bait and switch but got everything in the end. Good poser pic though, eh?
  3. Then the carnage began: Let's strip that baby down!
  4. Had the axles and knew where I was going with tires- BIG!:thumbsup:So off to eBay I went for rims. I took another month or more figuring out if 17s or super cheap 16.5s were the way to go: I went with H2s that would need to get machined out for the larger Ford hubs- mine took a fair bit of work to do compared to others... I bought 17's so I could go with more back-spacing.H2 rims:
  5. Then the rest was just good old hard work for a while: Axle work Those axles got sandblasted 3 times. Man that was plenty of work!
  6. I bought Currie brackets. They took some grinding but were easier to use than building my own. I did have to do something different though with the front driver-side myself that turned out nicely.A bit of custom brackets work.
  7. Then a certified welder and tons and tons of pre-heating then a final third sandblasting: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/jims-new-hybrid-scrambler-build-tons-questions-coming-976744/index29.html#post9960583
  8. And more axle work: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/jims-new-hybrid-scrambler-build-tons-questions-coming-976744/index30.html#post9982530
  9. I basically spent 3 months through the summer on and off working on the geometry.
  10. Finally tires!! Woohoo!! 40" Goodyear MTRs with Kevlar
  11. Then brakes: Jim's brake setup Finally able to see how things fit in the rim.
  12. Then finally building a vehicle begins: Real building work!! And I get to see if all of my measuring an eye-ball engineering really allowed things to fit without rubbing. NO RUBBING!!
  13. Poser shots! poser
  14. Then brake bracket design and mock-up: Brake mock-up still happening.





  15. Want to use long monotubes in as close to zero lift as possible. Built my own bar-pin mounts and located them outward of the mounting plate on the frame and axle to effectively stretch the possible shock stroke: Shock bar pins.


  16. Finished the rear brakes- GM 3/4 ton 4x4 front calipers on the rear with E350 Frod cargo van disks: Rear brakes done.
  17. Finished the front brakes- stock Ford 1 ton calipers and disks: Front brakes done.
  18. 1 ton power brake capabilities for 40" rubber. Did a ton of shopping and looking around then found some smoking hot deals: Settled on dual diaphram booster and Vette master cylinder using YJ mounting bracket.
  19. Assembled those hot deals to see what fit: Parts assembled.
  20. De-greased, bead blasted old bracket, primed and painted everything: Parts together- waiting for chrome MC cover....

    Here's where I'm at now- June 16th, 2011:
    Building crossmembers and setting the driveline in place: Crossmembers


 
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#484 ·
Score!! :)

Ok. Went back to a wrecker today to grab some bump-stop cups and poked around for a complete matching-to-the-new-fronts middle row Durango folding/split grey on grey leather seats...

Found an exact set in great shape... $100.00 with the bumps and seat belts thrown in. Woohoo!

So $152 for the front pair and $100 for the rear and a pile of hardware. Awesome!:2thumbsup:




So now I can get down to building the trackbars and re-aligning the axles I've moved around. Also I won't be dwelling any longer about "it would sure be nice to find matching rear seats!".

I'll put in the rear set of seats full-width after carving back some space from the interior wheel wells. All of that plate aluminum is just begging to give back that wasted space where my full width axles have vacated.:highfive:
 
#485 ·
Wrong Rear Coils... Shopping time again :(

Happily picked up the new rear coils- MOOG5375 and popped them in. This is what I get...

I should have noticed that they were shorter than expected... They are supposed to be 18.4 inches free height and 9 at ride height. The measure 15.75 free height (that's what I should have noticed right off) and loaded lightly they come down a whopping .5 inches. Not what they should be.

Here is my expected ride height in the rear:


Maybe I should try again for these. Another option is to buy stock rear coils as I only need 1 inch more height than stock and stick in a one inch spacer...
 
#486 ·
I should have noticed that they were shorter than expected... They are supposed to be 18.4 inches free height and 9 at ride height. The measure 15.75 free height (that's what I should have noticed right off) and loaded lightly they come down a whopping .5 inches. Not what they should be.

Maybe I should try again for these. Another option is to buy stock rear coils as I only need 1 inch more height than stock and stick in a one inch spacer...
I just went into the spreadsheet of moog coil characteristics and found out I was wrong. These are supposed to be 15.82 free height. They are...

I wonder what sort of loading will be be required for them to get to 9 inches? The spreadsheet does state 9 inches loaded height but there is no way the Jeep will ever weigh enough to get the coils another 5 inches lower...
 
#487 ·
Just bought me one of these:

A FORD complete NP205 tcase rebuild kit. This will finally be the beginning of my drive-train build up. I'll order up an NP435 tranny master rebuild kit right away. It is a little more pricey.

I'll finally see if my trig and eye-ball got the rear pinion angle where it was expected. So this whole drive-train build will determine motor mount position fore/aft, vertically and lateraly, t-case /tranny cross member build and positioning and of course the final engine placement. I have been considering pulling the firewall back rearward to get the entire engine behind the upper Dana 60 control arm mounts. It looks like buzzing out the recessed aluminum tub firewall section about 3 inches ought to do it.

Also the impact of this on the room behind the dash for everything from an after market A/C and heating system to the final dash placement may be more than I expect.

Lots to think about. Still looking for a CJ hood. Anyone have one near me?? Gota get the tub bolted in place.
 
#488 ·
Also, I picked up a set of used TJ rear coils from a wrecker for $29. They sit right now with 11.5 inches between my coil upper and lower rear coil buckets. I'm shooting for 9 inches so these may come out pretty close when the Scrambler gets loaded down more. Right now they are holding up frame, tub, seats and 1/2 of the CA weight. Not too much yet. Need to add rear end plumbing, fuel tank, tail gate, bumper and spare 40 tire and soft or hard top weight.
 
#489 ·
Man I dont know why I'm not getting a topic reply to this thread anymore:rolleyes:

Looking good, I cant wate to see it in the rock's:D

Jason.
 
#493 ·
Here is what I've been thinking about doing with my trackbar. I wrote about it on another thread here as a way to lengthen the trackbar and thereby reduce the lateral axle deflection. As I am using full width 1 ton axles the drag link is going to be a bit longer so this makes the longer trackbar a geometrically smarter thing to do, too.

I can set the mount outside the frame as above and also have it clear the driver side coil- I think...

This image is from the GenRight website.
 
#494 ·
Notice not only does he have the bracket welded to the outside of the frame with gusset's, he has a chunk of 1.5" tube coming down and what looks like is welded to the other frame rail.
Its hard to tell from the Pic but thats what my eye's see. Very smart idea, a well built track arm will give years of service.

Jason.
 
#495 ·
Yeah- that thing is really built. I know it will be close to my coils. I'll cycle my front suspension tonight to see how much room I have forward of the coil. I don't have a steering box yet so I'm shopping for one of those too. The trackbar mount has to fit between the coil and the pitman/drag link...

Anyone know if a YJ steering box can be used in a mid 80's CJ frame?
 
#497 ·
Suspension at full stuff

I finally had some time to get out to the garage to clean up the wrecker bumpstop cups and place them in the front end. Man-oh-man those Daystar extended stops took every bit of strength I had to force them into the cups.

I re-set the front Dana 60 back to on-center (I had pulled it laterally to the passenger-side about 1.5 inches to see how much axle movement I got per 1/16th of lower CA lengthening/shortening) and while the coils were out dropped the frame so the bumpstops sat on the lower coil pads.

Looks like all of my worrying wasn't neccessary. The pinion clears the frame by 3/16" and this is without a trackbar being mounted. When I get my trackbar built the axle will be forced another 1/4 to 3/8 or so farther to the passenger side giving the front pinion even more clearance. In front driver-side full stuff and passenger side full droop with a trackbar in place... dunno yet. I may need a limiting strap or two.



On another note. I slathered the seats with neatsfoot oil. The rear leather trio of seats had been rained on and were a bit messy and dry after cleaning. The oil soaked in and made a nice chage. A real improvement to how they feel. The leather didn't darken either. Did the fronts, too.
 
#498 ·
I finally settled on my trackbar build.
I traded a few emails with an ebay steel seller and bought two lengths of DOM tubing:
lot of 2-pcs DOM TUBING 1-1/4" x 1/4" x 1@40" 1@34" - eBay (item 260677685573 end time Oct-13-10 12:03:26 PDT)
1 40" length of 1 1/4 x 1/4 for the front trackbar
1 34" length of 1 1/4 x 1/4 for the rear trackbar
I'll use the Currie 1.6 inch wide JJ with the 1" threaded shank on one end with a weld on JJ barrel on the other end.
About the same deal for the rear. Ought to be strong enough to jack on.
Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts
Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts
The shipping for the tubing came to $23.40 but I can't get the stuff anywhere locally anyways.
 
#499 ·
Picked up 4 rebuildable RE 701/702 monotube shocks from a fellow here on jeepforum for $70 per pair. So, My suspension is mostly done now once I finsh building the trackbars and installing the shocks.:2thumbsup::2thumbsup:
 
#500 ·
More changes to the plan

I didn't like the jam nut so close to the lower axle-side trackbar mount (maybe surrounded by the Currie coil mount bracketry) using the narrow male Johnny Joint like this one:

So I changed my trackbar design to use a narrow bushed end from JKS. The cost including bushings is about $55.00 and is half of what Currie wanted for the same part. These longer shanks and bushed ends are the sweet gold anodized ends on these JKS and Currie trackbars. JKS makes and supplies these to Currie.

So parts A,D and E are going into my front and rear trackbars.

I'll still use the weldable barrel JJ for the rear axle side and perhaps for the front frame-side... Still need to check on interfeerence with the coil and pitman if I lay down the johnny joint for a double sheer bracket..
 
#509 ·
You are realling making some good progress.

Jason.
Hey there, Jason. Question- What length pitman arm do I need to swing the front Dana 60 knuckles stop to stop? Will an OEM Jeep pitman do it? Thanks.
 
#503 ·
The progress seems so slow. At least I'll be saving an absolute bundle on the trackbars. Wow- $300 bucks for $110 worth of goodies- and that is retail on the goodies... I'm saving at least $400 by doing it myself and these trackbar will be sooo strong.:thumbsup:
 
#504 ·
Couldn't get the CJ7 dismantle started today (got the hood off and grill off except for the tranny lines yesterday)... engine drained of fluids and that's about it.

I've got the last parts for the two trackbars ordered up. 2" weldable JJoints with grease-able bolts 1/2" bolts (not even listed on the Currie web site) and 1" x 14 jam nuts for the JKS adjustable ends.

I made two longer grade 8 drilled grease-able bolts for the front top frame CA mounts. The custom frame uses through-frame bolts here instead of the shorter-through-the-bracket-only bolts.

The DOM tubing hasn't arrived yet so its sit and wait for the big brown truck.
 
#505 ·
Finally Got To Work On The CJ7 and The Big Brown Truck Arrived

I beat the weather by one day and managed to not only get the body off of the CJ but also get it to the metal bin at the dump. I saved the dash as a template in case I make my own out of stainless, the hood that is is great shape, the grill that now has me wondering which one to use, the heating system, headlight bezels that are in awesome condition for some reason, and the column to box steering shaft.

I'm still learning about Jeeps. I assumed, wrongly, that I now owned a Dana 300 tcase, but instead discovered that the CJ7 had a BW1339 tcase. Evidently, the Dana 300 didn't get used until 1980... Oh well. I also have another TH400 automatic transmission to get rid of now along with the 304 V8. Two good axles are going have to find a new home, too.



So we then drove down to the UPS drop off point just south of the Canada/US border and picked up more goodies and filled up with your good cheap USA fuel. The monotube shocks are going to go into the Scrambler but the suspendsion will new a bit of tweaking... Once I get the driveline loaded onto the frame I'll know what to add for bump stops or coil spacers.


Also, the JKS narrow adjustable ends are here now as is the DOM 1.25x.25 tubing. The trackbars can finally get made. The steering box from the CJ also can finally get placed onto the Hybrid frame and i can see what to do about repositioning the front frame trackbar mount and clearance with everything up there on the left side...
Man that tubing is heavy.


I'm still waiting for the Currie 2" Johnny Joints to arrive.
 
#508 ·
Hey! Jeepforum member now!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks RebelRacing. The trannys and the tcases are next up in line with the trackbars for rebuild and painting. I'll keep those NP435 parts for you. I also have a really short tranny shifter for you.:p:p

I've also been thinking about just buying these:
Energy Suspension 2-2110R - Energy Suspension Leaf Spring Bushing Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Instead of the autofab bushings. They are even cheaper and I can use the other 4 bushing pairs for my roll bar to frame mounts.

And thank you for all of the help, advice and shopping you've helped me with. Things would have been harder without your contributions.:highfive:
 
#512 ·
Oh yeah:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Got to the lathe today for some reminiscing of lathe work I did 14 years ago when I taught in a metal shop. Haven't used one since even for anything basic.

Took a length of tubing stock to the lathe for drilling. Made some nice cuttings and managed a 58/64ths drilled depth just deep enough to swallow the entire JKS threaded end. So, with a jamb nut (using some thread) everything will work out.

Had to buy a 1x14 tap and it cost 53 bucks up here in Canada land. So I'll drill and thread the tube, then bend it as needed (the rear panhard 1st as it is easier) cut the unthreaded end to length, then weld the JJoint barrel to the unthreaded end.

Then, viola- one whicked $299.00 trackbar for under $100!:highfive:
 
#513 ·
Got both 1 1/4 x 1/4 lengths of DOM tubing drilled and tapped for the adjustable 1 x 14 threaded bushing ends. The jamb nuts arrived today with the last trackbar components I've been waiting for- the weldable Johnny Joints.:2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

These are the 2" joints with greasable bolts included... I hate drilling bolts.;)
Here is what I have now.

So, a couple of bends to the tubes, cut the others ends to length then weld on on the JJoints.
 
#514 ·
OK, not too much work done at all on the Scrambler but did get to work on my 1 ton daily driver and my old YJ that I sold a year ago... Thing keeps coming back like I sold it with a warrantee or something! The new owner had it in the bush and tore off a front shackle mount. He bought some supper heavy plate weld-on units and I got to do the welding...:confused: Happy to help though.:D

I have been putting off repairing the 1 ton 460 because of all of the horror stories I have read on internet about this problem. It had a terrible exhaust leak on the rear passenger side exhaust manifold. It was shooting major flame at the firewall and I just couldn't ignore the heat or noise any more. I got all 8 bolts out of the 460 head without breakage (one came out bent so it must have been close to snapping) and planed the manifold mostly flat again. It was warped at least 3/32 if not a bit more... of course it was high all through the middle so a ton of material had to come off.

I finally worked out the motor mount bushing setup.
I have a bunch of these:

So I bought a couple of feet of 1 1/2 x .134 wall DOM tubing to make these:

I'll probably buy another pile of YJ leaf bushings to use for the roll bar-to-frame mounts and use more of the tube that I'll have left over from making the mounts.
$17.00 bucks is pretty cheap for that pile of poly:
Energy Suspension 2-2110R - Energy Suspension Leaf Spring Bushing Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
So now I have a nice-like-new super quiet driving big block crewcab and can get back to work on the Scrambler.
 
#515 ·
#516 ·
So I've got to put some bends in my track bars and I have been thinking about my DIY tube fenders, tcase crossmembers, roll cage and other goodies that will need tube bending. I've been looking at several designs and had been thinking about building one of these:

I wanted to bend tube or pipe with it and also, build it so the tubing is on top of the unit. Looking for dies I called up ProTools and asked some questions about their HMP 200. It is an upside down version of the blindchickedracing bender. Just what I wanted.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

After a few minutes talking to the fellow I settled on 2 inch dies and building the ProTools version myself.
I'll be using HSS tubing of 1.9 OD with 0.125 wall thickness. This is a real clean ERW that some call a pipe. It won't be all scaly and aweful like the common schedule 40 pipe on the steel racks everywhere. I'm having my local machine shop bring in one length for me to play with and sort out how to bend it. I have access to a homemade bender that has some really rough dies...
The 24 foot length will cost me $59. Great price and this includes shipping. T
 
#517 ·
Did more looking around and found this at jdsquared.



Thought about it overnight and made a call this morning. The Model 3 bender is on sale and comes with a degree wheel. Bought it on the phone. I figured that I'd rather build the Scrambler than another tool. I'll buy the dies as I need them. For now I'll build a base and just use the thing.
 
#518 ·
Did more looking around and found this at jdsquared.

Thought about it overnight and made a call this morning. The Model 3 bender is on sale and comes with a degree wheel. Bought it on the phone. I figured that I'd rather build the Scrambler than another tool. I'll buy the dies as I need them. For now I'll build a base and just use the thing.
You'll be pleased with that bender Jim. I got mine in the other day and was very impressed with the quality. Nice people to deal with too.

I am now subscribed, I've seen this thread before and had lost track. Not any more. Keep up the great work and spend plenty of loafing time in that Lazy Boy!! :D
 
#519 ·
:2thumbsup: awesome project and very impressive work, thanks for the build thread, I'll be watching :popCorn:
 
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