jeephammer v8 teamrush 304 to 360 ignition upgrade - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > jeephammer v8 teamrush 304 to 360 ignition upgrade

Savvy Aluminum Gas Tank SkidFS: Jeep Fog Light LED Bulbs! Several Brightness Options! Stainless Steel Door Hinge Pins

Reply
Unread 06-28-2011, 07:39 PM   #1
oxynerd
Registered User
1973 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 96
jeephammer v8 teamrush 304 to 360 ignition upgrade

soo i wasn't sure what to title this as. But it looks like im going to be going from a 74 304 to an 80 360 out of a cherokee. Thanks ahead of time for the info you put in for me

__________________
73 CJ6
Photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/oxynerd
Thread : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-me-73cj6-1171659/
oxynerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-28-2011, 09:28 PM   #2
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
'80 AMC will have the Motorcraft distributor in it...
SO!
If you have the factory distributor, you are good to go.

You are looking for a distributor cap adapter, distributor cap, rotor from an '82 Ford F-150 with 302 V-8 engine.

If you want to get it in a 'Kit'...
Try this, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8414/



This will give you a TALL rotor, Tall rotors mean the spark energy from the coil can't jump to the distributor shaft as easy.

The wider cap spaces the terminals out, so the spark energy doesn't jump to the wrong terminal there either.

The above cap is EXCELLENT! Best I've ever used for these applications.
A little costly, but they keep working when the aluminum terminal caps are barely letting the vehicle run with your foot on the throttle.

---------------------------------

Then you need a reasonable set of plug wires for the new cap.

I would go with MSD 'Cut To Fit' wires that come with the Stripping gauge, crimping tool, good instructions, and EXCELLENT terminals, very good boots, and very good wire for your application.
Anything short of a full out racing application, these are the wires to use.

Link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-3119/

-------------------------------------------

Since you are switching over from a Prestolite ignition, you will have to change the module you have now.
That Prestolite module is NOT compatible with any other factory ignition I know of.

A $20 HEI style module will give you pretty good reliability, fair spark energy, and for $20, what more could you ask?

Local Parts Store, ask for the Ignition Module from '79 Chevy Impala with 305 or 350 V-8 Engine.

Want module mounting instructions?
Wiring diagrams?
Stuff like that too?

Not a problem, but I need to hunt them up, and I don't have that thumb drive handy right now...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2011, 06:24 AM   #3
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
Next thing you need to do is Mount the module...

You will need a piece of aluminum, copper, something to pull the heat out of the module as it operates. It's called a 'Heat Sink'...

I don't use steel because steel rusts too quickly and then won't pull the heat like it's supposed to.



[img]http://www.


HEAT SINK COMPOUND! DO NOT USE DIELECTRIC GREASE UNDER THE MODULE!



Buy some heat sink compound (also goes by 'Heat Transfer Paste').
Radio Shack p/n 276-1372 A (around $3) works very well.
So will any computer CPU compounds that you may have lying around.

This little gadget lets you plug directly into the distributor WITHOUT cutting off the distributor connector...

Link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8869/

Not necessary, but if you want to keep the distributor a 'Plug In' unit, this is the best way I've found to do it...
Other than getting the HARNESS side of the distributor plug out of a junk yard and splicing it onto your harness...



---------------------------------------

Once the module is mounted, this is the wiring changes you need to make.
This makes use of the factory wiring for your Prestolite system...
Or you can wire from scratch, either way it's up to you.
Link To Image: http://www.civilianjeep.info/Ignitio...eReplace01.gif



--------------------------------------------

The last part of this is the ignition coil.

This HEI module is designed to work with the more powerful 'E-Core' type coil.

The most powerful COMMON E-core coil out there is the 'Ford' version, used between '85 and late 90's, so they are everywhere,
And since Ford used a very good quality coil on the stock vehicles, there is no reason you shouldn't get one from a salvage yard and save some money...

Find a late 80s-early 90s Ford, locate the distributor, follow the coil wire back to the coil and take the coil, coil connector with as much wire as you can get, and the mounting bracket.

If you buy new, you are looking at about $50 for the coil, $15 for the coil connector and the brackets are HARD to find...
So the salvage yard saves you a lot of money and running around...

If you INSIST on a new coil, ask the counter guy at the parts store for the igniton coil from an '89 Mustang with V-8 engine.

Coil connector NAPA p/n ICC1, about $15,
and you will have to fabricate your coil mount, I don't know anyplace right off hand to get one.

------------------------------

Don't get me wrong, your factory coil *WILL WORK*, but it's not what the module was designed to work with so you won't get 'Optimum' spark energy out of it.

SO! Questions? Comments?
Anything you don't understand?
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2011, 02:58 PM   #4
oxynerd
Registered User
1973 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 96
awesome thank you so much. I think i will be good. If i end up with any problems or questions ill post here
__________________
73 CJ6
Photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/oxynerd
Thread : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-me-73cj6-1171659/
oxynerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2011, 05:09 PM   #5
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
No problem.
Ask if you have 'Issues'.
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2011, 06:07 PM   #6
mopar408
Registered User
1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: new braunfels, tx
Posts: 1,361
I just finished doing mine and it works like a champ. The only thing I didn't like was my fleaBay " 80 Wagonneer 360 off running motor" distributor has a "16L and 21L " distributor shaft in it which mathematically seems way too much and won't allow any initial but 4 degrees. used it .Next rainyday project will be to pull the shaft, braze the gap up some and refinish back to a lower "L" gap.
This sound familiar to anyone?
__________________
If it's good TO you, it's gotta be good FOR you....
mopar408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2011, 07:47 PM   #7
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
16 degrees of mechanical advance isn't excessive for a stock engine...
Brazing up the slot seems excessive, I usually just wrap a heavy 'Zip' tie around the limiter post to take some out of the mechanical advance if needed...
A metal sleeve over the post will do the same thing.

The question is,
Is the centrifugal advance coming in too soon, causing problems?

If so, use heavier springs and delay the centrifugal in the RPM range where the engien can use the advance...

Most cases of centrifugal advance being 'Too Much' is directly traced to vacuum advance pulling in too soon because the installer connected to manifold vacuum instead of spark ported vacuum and you are getting too much total advance too soon.

Slowing or limiting either one will usually solve any 'Quick' issues.
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2011, 07:03 AM   #8
mopar408
Registered User
1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: new braunfels, tx
Posts: 1,361
'splain me this: everything I read sez the number stamped on the shaft is HALF what it is i.e. 16 is 32 degrees 21 is
42 degrees, etc. Me..WTF mark it like that way?
without a doubt, on a Duraspark II, does- lets say the 16- is that 8, 16, or 32 degrees. ?

This exemplifies what I see:

On Fords each side is stamped with a number, usually 10L and 13L; or some have 15L and 18L. These numbers refer to 1/2 of the total degrees of timing that will be obtained when using that arm. So for example a 15L arm would contribute 15 x 2= 30 degrees of timing when full against the stop.
__________________
If it's good TO you, it's gotta be good FOR you....
mopar408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2011, 08:35 AM   #9
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
Not what I've found out with my test bench.
The slots aren't accurate, +/- 2 degrees or so, but usually right on the money when checked with a timing light.

They are probably talking about CRANKSHAFT degrees.
Remember, there are 720 CRANKSHAFT degrees in an ignition/camshaft circle.
The crank has to turn TWICE to rotate the camshaft/distributor ONCE.
I don't know the article you are quoting from, so I don't know if it's crankshaft or camshaft/ignition 'Degrees' they are talking about.

Most factory stock Centrifugal advances will throw between 8 & 16 crankshaft degrees of advance when viewed with a timing light.
It's easy to test, simply remove vacuum line from distributor, and plug it,
Then view the balancer with a timing light as the RPM goes up...
Should start around 800 RPM and you can map it with a Tach until it reaches centrifugal total to find out EXACTLY what you are working with,
Don't forget to subtract the 'Initial' from the readings!
(I make that mistake quite often!)

Once you know what centrifugal is coming in at what RPM, it will be constant no matter what load or vacuum signal the engine is seeing...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2011, 02:53 PM   #10
oxynerd
Registered User
1973 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 96
Ok ok now i have question.. How do you setup timing? This engine needs a gear set change/replace on the dist.. I want to make sure i do this right. Is there anything else I would have to worry about. I know ill need a rebalanced/new flywheel that matches the 360.
__________________
73 CJ6
Photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/oxynerd
Thread : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-me-73cj6-1171659/
oxynerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2011, 05:57 PM   #11
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
By 'Gear Set' do you mean the timing set, sprockets & chain, or do you mean drive gears, camshaft gear and distributor gear?

If it's timing set, I go with Edelbrock or Cloyes. (
Cloyes makes them for Edlebrock, so they are both Cloyes most times and made in the USA.)

The only 'Big Deal' is to get the correct lower sprocket on the crankshaft in the correct slot, there are usually 3 keyway slots in the lower sprocket, and you have to get the 'Correct' one...

It's pretty easy,
Find TDC of Compression Stroke before you take the front cover off, then just find the lower sprocket key way slot that puts the two sprocket marks directly facing each other. (Top mark directly at 6 o'clock, lower mark at 12 o'clock) and lined up with the center lines of the crank and cam shafts.

If you CAN'T roll the engine over to TDC of Compression before you start, like with a broken timing chain,
Take the front cover off, get the broken chain out, Then TEMP placing the timing cover back into place,
Use the timing 'Hash' mark on the balancer to find TDC, while VERIFYING TDC with something in the #1 spark plug hole...
(You want to do it BOTH ways, just in case the balancer is screwed up, they sometimes are)

Once you find TDC on the crank,
Then move to the camshaft, put the top sprocket on TEMP Install, and see if you can locate the correct timing mark on the sprocket.
Turn the timing mark to the 6 oclock position, directly lined up between centerline of the crank and camshaft.

Those 'Timing Marks' on the sprockets are usually a 'Dot' or a Triangle stamped into the metal...

--------------------------------------

If you are talking about Drive Gear sets, that's easy, just unbolt the stuff off the front of the camshaft and bolt the new pieces back on.

Key Ways will keep you straight, just make sure the gear you are going to use has the oil hole drilled into it.
Little bitty hole, you will see it in the old gear, look for it on the new gear.
Some new gears from the 'Internet' places don't have a lubrication hole, and if yours doens't have one... Well, break out the little drills, you are in for some fun...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2011, 06:05 PM   #12
oxynerd
Registered User
1973 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 96
thanks again. i believe its the 2nd one. Thats a pretty common problem isn't it? also thanks for all this info. You should have a book or something
__________________
73 CJ6
Photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/oxynerd
Thread : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-me-73cj6-1171659/
oxynerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2011, 06:34 AM   #13
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
The issue with distributor gears was some unscrupulous dealers here in the US imported some 'Foreign' made gears, they were WAY OFF factory specifications...
And they caused a LOT of problems...

The importers continued to sell the bad gears even after many failures, so we as consumers had real problems with them for about 4 years or so.
The bad gears have pretty much worked their way through the aftermarket pipeline, and consumers are MUCH MORE WARY of getting them...
We've found ways to test for them, ways NOT to use them, ect.

The factory gears are fine, they work great, last 200,000 or 250,000 miles with no issues.
The REMAN (remanufactured parts market, like the auto parts supply stores) didn't have any issues since they used the same type/kind/size/material as the factory gears.

It was the 'Hot Rod' shops, the 'E-bay' sellers of aftermarket distributors, and sometimes just the gears by themselves that were the issue...

Some places that made distributors for AMC engines didn't have issues at all,
MSD & DUI come to mind, they didn't use crap gears to start with, so they didn't have problems...
It was the 'Fly By Night' places that were the issue...

A 'Reman' (rebuilt) distributor is $50 from the parts stores if you need one,
The vacuum advance will cost you that much if you get one for most Jeep engines, so getting an entirely rebuild distributor for that price is a pretty good deal,

And as for the camshaft gear, it's hard to beat the dealership or MSD.
MSD is expensive, but they are top quality and SAFE,
But then again, for a mostly stock engine, the local dealership has them cheaper and work just as good...

Most of the time the factory gear is just fine and I reuse it.
Very seldom do I need to change a gear unless the owner has plugged in one of the bad distributor gears and ruined it...

Now, there will be a 'Fuel Pump Eccentric' on that camshaft nose also...
They are scrapped quite often! If you open the front cover, make sure you inspect/replace that fuel pump eccentric as needed...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2011, 04:27 PM   #14
oxynerd
Registered User
1973 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 96
thanks for all that again! also is there anything off the 304 i should keep? the exaust manifolds from the 304 will match up to the 360 correct?
__________________
73 CJ6
Photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/oxynerd
Thread : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/new-me-73cj6-1171659/
oxynerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2011, 05:13 PM   #15
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,098
I'd keep all the little stuff,
Distributor drive gear, camshaft gear, oil pump eccentric, front timing cover, balancer if it's in good condition, ect.
Those front drive covers and oil pump heads are hard for me to come buy anymore, so if you want to sell it, let me know... My stock is LOW, I'm down to my last cover and I don't have any oil filter heads...

There are a lot of guys looking for 304 engines, I don't know why with the ready supply of 360s out there, but they are.
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.