[Oily]

, I have the dash out for speaker replacement and am also doing a heater motor upgrade. While spending money, , I decided to do Team Rush. As per a link in this forum to this thread.
First off, I do not understand how/why this upgrade benefits performance. Unless it is because of the newer coil which I suspect will not work with the old distributor cap. I am reading that a newer non-oil filled coil is an additional upgrade. That the old coil being used would still be considered a Team Rush upgrade.
Which leads me to my main questions. As per the link above...

from link
Depending on your situation, you may need to install a resistor,
in the form of a ballast resistor or a resistor wire. Total resistance
should be 1.4 ohms = 9 volts into the coil.

...how do I determine what kind of a resistor I would need ?
I am also unable to find these distributor advance springs. Without them is my effort worth the while ?

[SuB8HaVeN]

You shouldn't need a resistor.

Basically this mod gives you stronger and more reliable spark. The newer Ford distributor cap is a better design. I used the distributor cap, spacer/adapter, rotor, and plugs off a 1981 Ford F-150 with the 300 I6. I also upgraded to a new Accel ignition coil. You can use the stock ignition coil, but a good aftermarket one is going to give you stronger spark. Just make sure to gap the plugs out a bit.

[EtownCJ5]

Not trying to hijack, but this is related. Anyone use this for their Team Rush? Reviews? Cost compared? They are selling the kits for $90.

[SuB8HaVeN]

I probably paid less for the premium parts with Napa. At least when you buy from Napa you know the cap will have brass terminals. Much easier to return if you need to as well. You can also use the Ford Motorcraft TFI ignition module in the system just as easily as plugging it in.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by Oily

, I have the dash out for speaker replacement and am also doing a heater motor upgrade. While spending money, , I decided to do Team Rush. As per a link in this forum to this thread.
First off, I do not understand how/why this upgrade benefits performance. Unless it is because of the newer coil which I suspect will not work with the old distributor cap. I am reading that a newer non-oil filled coil is an additional upgrade. That the old coil being used would still be considered a Team Rush upgrade.
Which leads me to my main questions. As per the link above...

...how do I determine what kind of a resistor I would need ?
I am also unable to find these distributor advance springs. Without them is my effort worth the while ?

Since I am 'TeamRush' (the name of my racing team since the early 80's), you might want to take my word for it...

First off, you DO NOT need a resistor since your ignition already has one ('83 CJ-7 has a factory resistor).
It's under the hood in the engine wiring harness, and it's a resistor wire that goes to the ignition coil.

Secondly,
The large Ford cap & rotor are the largest part of the upgrade.
By spreading terminals apart, you won't have as many crossfires (firing the wrong spark plug) and multi-fires (spark energy firing more than one plug at the same time).

The rotor for the larger/taller cap will lift up the spark energy out of the distributor housing, so you won't have the spark energy jumping to 'Ground' (the entire metal distributor body, and all the metal distributor parts are 'Ground') and instead, going to the spark plug terminals where it is intended to be and will do you some good.

Getting away from the factory cap, that is black, will help too.
To make those caps black, they use 'Carbon Black', a carbon soot product from burning fossil fuels.
Carbon is conductive, and will help the spark energy go places it shouldn't.
It's called 'Carbon Tracking', and once the cap has a 'Carbon Track' in it, it's ruined.

By using a true, premium dielectric (non-conductive) distributor cap with brass terminals, the spark energies will have a much better chance of reaching the intended spark plug at the correct time...

The vented distributor cap also vents out the build up of Ionized Air.
For a spark to jump, the voltage must ionize the air in the gap first, and since the spark energy has to ionize the air gaps between rotor and plug wire terminal on every cylinder, every time, there is often a build up of excess ionized air in the distributor cap.

That excess Ionized air allows the spark energy to jump anywhere there is an ion trail, which is anywhere and everywhere if the cap/distributor body if full of excess ionized air...

By venting the cap and the excess ionized air, ground fires, multi-fires and cross fires are substantially reduced!
This means for the first time since your vehicle rolled off the production line in '83, the spark energy is going to have a fighting chance of getting to the correct plug wire terminal at the correct time...

Now, if you use a good set of plug wires, it will get to the spark plug with out loosing a bunch of it's power...
------------------

The ignition coil (The E-core coil) is an easy way to bump up the USABLE spark energy a little bit!
Now that you have a cap, rotor and plug wires to deliver the spark energy, why not add some to the mix for cheap!

The E-core coil isn't a huge improvement, but will saturate much faster than the canister coil, and it can be mounted/run at any angle since it's not oil filled.

The E-core coil also has the advantage of working with about any factory style ignition module, and even breaker points if you use enough resistor...
--------------------

Now that you have the vehicle starting and running much better, you may want to add a little more power...

That would be from adjusting the advance 'curve' (how fast and when the vacuum and centrifugal advance engage in relationship to the engine vacuum levels and RPM range).

By adding some advance at the right time you can gain some power in selected RPM ranges.
This would be from adjusting the spring pressures or weight of the weights for RPM changes,
And adjusting the mechanical limiters and/or spring pressure preload rates of the vacuum system.

All AMC/Motorcraft distributors have a spring preload pressure (vacuum advance rate) adjusters from the factory, so you lucked out there.

(If you would have switched to an HEI distributor, you would have to pay for a new vacuum advance to do this. HEI's are not adjustable from the factory)

A small file or Dremel tool will allow you to change the amount of advance.
------------------------------

Any more questions?

[roundlitefan]

Jeephammer, I have another question for you.

I am about to buy all the parts to do the ignition upgrade, and was going to get a Ford TFI coil at the same time.

Question is this, does it matter if I get a cap that is set up for ECC?

I was going to get parts from an '86 Ford truck 460, and apparently there are 2 versions of distributor cap, one for use with Electronic Combustion Control, and one for use without.

[Oily]

Originally Posted by JeepHammer

Since I am 'TeamRush' (the name of my racing team since the early 80's), you might want to take my word for it...
Any more questions?

Wow, , thanks for the reply. I have seen your posts but did not realize. I have actually looked up Team Rush looking for more than just the upgrade. I must have missed it.
First off, I have to thank you for every Jeeper. I am not sure if you gave this info out or if it got out but I thank you for finding it. I see where some people are charging for your idea by supplying a turn key kit. They should be shot.
I would also like to thank you for your explanation. I like to know what is going on. You never would have come up with this upgrade if you did not.
I have an adequate understanding of automobiles (many decent vehicles past and present and have worked in a shop). Your explanations are still a treasure. I was away chasing a TFI mounting bracket (I live in the boonies) and am also multi-tasking (dash, speakers, heater, Team Rush, Nutter next) along with honey doos. I hope to get 'er back together today.
Once I iron out all the creases I would like some info to correctly set up my advance curve to my normal applications. The force of the forum is great. I know I am gonna benefit from my mods but I am doing more than one at a time and will not be able to credit each mod. Ehh...as long as the seat of the pants is happy, (including the wallet ) who cares.
Thank you JeepHammer.

[NWA_CJ7]

I'm also getting ready to do this upgrade but I have no wire with resistor under the hood and it is an 83. Were exactley does this hook up at?

[SlikRic]

JackHammer, Would this Mod help a 1980 CJ7?
Also thanks for the extremely clear explanation....Great.

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by NWA_CJ7

I'm also getting ready to do this upgrade but I have no wire with resistor under the hood and it is an 83. Were exactley does this hook up at?

Trust me, the resistor wire is in EVERY harness made from '78 to '91 with an AMC engine in it...
Both I-6 and V-8...
Even your '83 has a resistor wire in place in the factory harness...
----------------------------------

Originally Posted by SlikRic

JackHammer, Would this Mod help a 1980 CJ7?
Also thanks for the extremely clear explanation....Great.

The large cap modification, or also known as the 'TeamRush' upgrade will help ALL '78 to '91 Jeeps with the AMC engines.

For some reason, AMC decided to stick with 1940's cap, rotor and plug wires...

You are just updating to late '70's/early '80's main stream tune up parts, it's really no biggie...

[JeepHammer]

Originally Posted by Oily

I am not sure if you gave this info out or if it got out but I thank you for finding it.

The large cap was made by Ford.
Since AMC/Jeep used the Ford Motorcraft/DuraSpark ignition, the updated parts just fell on...

This is an old AMC racers trick, been around for a while, and since I did racing engines for over 30 years,
And specialized in ignitions and fuel systems,
I've tested about every factory and aftermarket part for use in our and on other peoples engines...

Using the Ford E-core coil is Uniquely mine, and I'm the one that organized and published the upgrade, part numbers, ect. for the jeeping community back in '99, and it seems to have caught on!

I just wish they would have plagiarized/reproduced the writings word for word so there weren't so may different versions that don't work well for one reason or another!
--------------------------------

I see where some people are charging for your idea by supplying a turn key kit. They should be shot.

Sure are, and they are using the worst examples of 'China' made junk in the 'Kits' too!

You get what you pay for, and if you buy a 'Kit' off E-bay because it's $10 cheaper than the MSD parts I recommend, then there is NOTHING I can do for you!

Ask an expert then don't listen to the answer you deserve what you get!
---------------------------

I was away chasing a TFI mounting bracket ...

NOT TFI!

The Ford TFI (Thick Film Intergrated) ignition module was a piece of crap!
I dont' use any part of the TFI distributor or module in my upgrades.
This 'TFI' crap is a prime example of how things get twisted around...

TFI refers to the module, and the distributor that it was mounted to. Ford actually got sued stupid over that piece of crap, and I don't use unreliable parts!
If I wanted 'Unreliable', I would put in a Prestolite or HEI!

We use the E-core coil from the TFI years, but the E-core was actually introduced in the last couple of years of the DuraSpark module,
But again, that's the E-core coil, not the 'TFI' coil...

And to be quite frank, the BEST place to get a E-core coil bracket is on the coil...
Along with the connector that will cost you $14 at NAPA...
Just find a junk yard and grab the coil, connector and bracket for the same $5...
Factory coils are excellent quality, and coils on the stock system were rarely damaged or go bad...
---------------------------------

Once I iron out all the creases I would like some info to correctly set up my advance curve to my normal applications.

No problem...
Once you do this once or twice, it's actually VERY easy!
I'll be glad to help if I'm around... and I'm usually around like a donut!
-----------------------------

The force of the forum is great.

Ain't it though!
I learn something every time I come here!
These guys amaze me every day!

I'm so glad I found this forum, I was SO tired of the kids on the pIRATE forum and some of the others I couldn't stand it!

It's good to be with adults that can talk about real world stuff, instead of something made from an theoretical anticipatory metal called 'Un-Obtanium'
OR,
Cussing and screaming over the best way to do something...
When there might be MORE than one way to accomplish something...
OR,
Some idiot recomending a $15,000 crate engine for a hunting vehicle used twice a year,
When all the guy actually needs is a tune up!

Something they don't get over there is 'APPLICATION', 'APPLICATION' and 'APPLICATION'...
Not everyone is going to invest $80,000 in a full on rock buggy when the application is weekend pleasure/trail rides!

Thank you JeepHammer.

No problem! Glad I could help out, and maybe stick a fork in the eye of those guys selling 'China' parts instead of using the best USA parts you can find!

[Fatman]

Originally Posted by JeepHammer

First off, you DO NOT need a resistor since your ignition already has one ('83 CJ-7 has a factory resistor).
It's under the hood in the engine wiring harness, and it's a resistor wire that goes to the ignition coil.
Any more questions?

Actually, looking at the diagrams, the resistor wire runs from the Alternator to the Red + (positive 12ga) wire (13F on the firewall plug) which then runs to the coil and the accessory side of the starter solenoid.
Why not run;
the alternator resistor wire,
the coil + wire,
and the firewall 13F wire
directly to the starter solenoid?
Seems to me Jeep had too many splices in their harnesses.

[Fatman]

Originally Posted by Fatman

Actually, looking at the diagrams, the resistor wire runs from the Alternator to the Red + (positive 10ga *edit*) wire (13F on the firewall plug) which then runs to the coil and the ignition prong *edit* of the starter solenoid.
Why not run;
the alternator resistor wire,
the coil + wire,
and the firewall 13F wire
directly to the starter solenoid?
Seems to me Jeep had too many splices in their harnesses.

Ok,
I see you're actually referring to the resistance wire (13B-Red w/TR - resistance 1.35) that runs from a splice at the ignition module plug (13F-Red w/TR -10) to the splice between the coil wire (13D-Red w/TR - 18) and the starter solenoid wire (13E-Red w/TR - 18)

I had confused the 78 - Brown w/TR - 20 resistance 15.0 ohm wire that comes off the alternator. I guess some call this the "excite" wire.

[Fatman]

Well I thought I understood what "resistance" wire you were talking about and then came across this:

http://jeepforum.com:80/forum/showpost.php?p=5028212&postcount=23

Sheerly you're not calling 13B-Red w/TR - resistance 1.35 and 78 - Brown w/TR - 20 resistance 15.0 ohm the same wire. ???
More confused than ever!

[JeepHammer]

Ignition Resistor Wire and Alternator Resistor wire are two entirely different things...

Alternator resistor wire can be replaced with a Diode on the Delco SI alternators most of us CJ guys have (Jeep factory from '78 to end of CJ production), just like in the diagrams you are linking to.

The ignition resistor wire is about 40" long, and handles MUCH MORE CURRENT than the 'Excite' wire that works at very low voltage for about 2 seconds when you start the vehicle...

The IGNITION RESISTOR is usually "13B" in the harness, and it's clearly marked on the diagrams as 'Resistance 1.35 Ohms'....
It's about 40 inches long, and it's an integral part of any Jeep/Motorcraft/DuraSpark harness from '78 to '90 with AMC engines.