Ignition Upgrade '78-'90 Jeep, TeamRush Upgrade... - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #46 of 62 Old 05-05-2013, 05:53 PM
Pacfanweb
Go Wolfpack
 
Pacfanweb's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by BantamTJ View Post
True, I DO need vacuum given the type of driving I do, and my engine is mostly stock with an RV cam.



Not looking so much for a plug-n-play quick fix but rather an overall ignition upgrade. Read up on Team Rush 304-360 ignition upgrade and you'll see why I decided this route would be best for me.

Thanks
I know all about it. The Large Cap upgrade isn't an "upgrade" over an HEI. That was my point. The BEST you could ever hope for with the Large Cap upgrade (team rush, although it was around long before it was called this) is to get even with an HEI. It basically makes the Duraspark system into what the HEI already is. Larger cap, so you can increase your plug gap, better spark plug wire connections, etc. And if you take the "upgrade" all the way, it has you replacing the Duraspark module and wiring in an HEI module.
And if you already had a Duraspark system, this might make sense, but since you need the whole mess replaced anyway, it doesn't. The HEI is of similar cost, and MUCH easier to do, and easier to tune once it's in there. Plus the whole parts available anywhere is a nice benefit.
But to each his own.


I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em. -
Jimmy V
Pacfanweb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #47 of 62 Old 05-05-2013, 08:53 PM
BantamTJ
Registered User
1979 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Battlefield
Posts: 6
Thank you for your input. My dilemma is my current dizzy is a Unilite with it's own module after I yard it out I'll still need an ignition module (as you know), I could have gone the HEI route but I already have a stock dizzy so I figured I'd utilize it then get the spark where it needs to go with the Team Rush thing. I'm kinda green on all of this so I've been muddling my way through hoards of info and thought it'd be a good alternative.

Thanks,
BantamTJ is offline  
post #48 of 62 Old 05-08-2013, 06:40 AM
BantamTJ
Registered User
1979 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Battlefield
Posts: 6
Just completed the "Team Rush" upgrade on my '79 J10, went full MSD including 6A CDI control module, what a difference, runs great. I was a bit surprised after pulling the plugs to clean & re-gap & discovered they were already @ .050 (one was .053 another @ .032) NOT cool!
Many thanks JH!!!
Attached Thumbnails
100_4379.jpg   100_4382.jpg  

Last edited by BantamTJ; 05-08-2013 at 11:45 AM.
BantamTJ is offline  
 
post #49 of 62 Old 02-25-2014, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 11,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
JHammer - I noticed in the first post, concerning the 258 inline 6, that you didn't address the coil like you did in the v8 post. Is this because you feel there is no improvement for that component or was it just an oversite? Either way, I replaced my factory coil (not that it was bad) with a Jacob's back in the late 80's I believe it was. I think it's called a CompuCoil, it's a chrome cannister coil just like the stock one but claimed a higher voltage (40k I think). It still works but has some rust on it and is 20+ years old and since I'm doing a rebuild I was going to replace it. What do you recommend for a replacement? The wires, cap, and rotor have all been upgraded and a Weber32 will be going on it, but other than that it's pretty well stock. It's an 82 so no underdash computer, only the duraspark ignition module, and the idle control module which I think will become pretty much useless once the BBD gets replaced.
This is REALLY late answering, but here goes...

It depends on what MODULE you are using...
The GM style HEI (Clone) module will work best with the E-core coil.
Doesn't matter if it's the Ford style E-core, or the GM style E-cores.
The module was designed to work best with an E-core.

The factory Jeep/Motorcraft DuraSpark module will work best with a CANISTER COIL,
You get slightly more spark energy with the canister coil,
And on an I-6 you are never going to rev the engine where the canister coil breaks down and causes problems.

With an MSD or other CDI module,
It doesn't matter what coil you use, you are still going to get 600% to 1,000% more spark energy to the plugs that you will with the factory modules, and the CDI modules will work with both coils just fine.

REMEMBER,
'Free' internet information is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!
LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JeepHammer is offline  
post #50 of 62 Old 02-25-2014, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 11,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacfanweb View Post
I know all about it. The Large Cap upgrade isn't an "upgrade" over an HEI. That was my point. The BEST you could ever hope for with the Large Cap upgrade (team rush, although it was around long before it was called this) is to get even with an HEI.
This would be patently FALSE.

The difference and limitations in the GM HEI, and the HEI style clones will limit the spark energy the unit can handle long before the HEI can catch up with an upgraded Jeep/Motorcraft distributor.

The Jeep/Motorcraft distributor is more tuneable from the factory,
The upgraded cap/rotor design allows the cap/rotor to handle spark energies well in excess of what would destroy or ground out in an HEI,
Not to mention the RPM limitations of the HEI and it's clones.

There simply isn't enough air gap between rotor and 'Ground' since the rotor sits right on top of the distributor shaft in an HEI, so the rotor can't handle the spark energy even close to what the upgraded Jeep/Motorcraft distributor will handle.

There is a reason places like MSD uses a 'Blow Proof' rotor and a Ford style cap instead of the HEI design rotor and cap, and that is because it simply can't handle the spark energies produced by the MSD modules, or any other well tuned maximum output electronic ignition system.

Quote:
It basically makes the Duraspark system into what the HEI already is.
Again, not correct at all.
This allows you to SURPASS the HEI capabilities quite easily, And don't forget,
The Jeep/Motorcraft distributor is more tuneable from the factory, no special or replacement parts to buy to tune it,
And it is more durable and longer lasting because of it's design than the HEI and clones...


Quote:
Larger cap, so you can increase your plug gap, better spark plug wire connections, etc. And if you take the "upgrade" all the way, it has you replacing the Duraspark module and wiring in an HEI module.
Again, misunderstood... and mis-informing people...
The larger cap is to space terminals apart for higher spark energies.
Ford did this with it's basic electronic ignition,
While Jeep decided to stay with the smaller cap used on breaker point ignitions.
This was a short coming from AMC/Jeep, not the Motorcraft distributor, which came with the taller/larger cap when introduced in 'Ford' vehicles...

Now, you simply apply basic common sense here...
The larger the gap between rotor and 'Ground' of the distributor shaft/base, the more spark energy you can pump through the rotor to the plugs...

HEI rotor sits right on top of the distributor shaft, so it blows through or goes around the rotor to the 'Ground' the shaft and advance weights present well before the spark energy will jump from the rotor to the 'Ground' inside the Jeep/Motorcraft with proper rotor/cap upgrade.

If you follow the 'Upgrade' all the way out, and understand WHY you are doing it,
You simply upgrade the cap, rotor & plug wires so they will handle the 600% to 1,000% more spark energy an MSD CDI module will produce!
You don't use a GM HEI module.

The GM HEI module replacement is a 'Scab In' for people that can't find a reliable 'DuraSpark' replacement anymore since 'Ford' (Motorcraft) doesn't make the DuraSpark module and you can't find one that doesn't come from 'China' or someplace like...

*IF*...
You could find a reasonable copy/replacement of the DuraSpark module, it would, like it always has, produce more spark energy than the HEI module does...

The HEI module replacement is simply a $25 replacement for a no longer available DuraSpark module that will live.
It's not an 'Upgrade' other than it's reasonably reliable, it's a move sideways for reliability,
But if you did the proper 'TeamRush Upgrade' all the way to the end, you would have an MSD CDI module making 600% to 1,000% more spark energy than the HEI or HEI clones...

Quote:
And if you already had a Duraspark system, this might make sense, but since you need the whole mess replaced anyway, it doesn't.
This too is a misleading statment...
*IF*...
You want to MAXIMIZE the spark energy you can get to your spark plugs,
Then get with the program and use the distributor cap, rotor, plug wires, ect. that will produce and transmit that spark energy.

A GM HEI or HEI Clone simply WILL NOT do that because of the rotor on the shaft limitation alone.
Around 50,000 volts, the air around the rotor is going to ionize, and the spark is going to bypass or blast through the rotor to 'Ground' at the shaft, and there is NOTHING you can do about it...

So when you see the "50,000 VOLTS!" coils advertised, keep that in mind.
There is much more to spark energy than 'Voltage' and ANY FACTORY COIL CAN PRODUCE 50,000 volts with no problems...

The 'Trick' is getting that spark energy to the spark plugs, which GM HEI/HEI Clones simply can't do...


Quote:
The HEI is of similar cost, and MUCH easier to do, and easier to tune once it's in there.
Again, misleading.

Similar cost, but not similar results.
If you want something that is 'EASY', as in you are simple and lazy, then HEI is your way to go.

If you want something that is MODULAR so it's UPGRADEABLE IN THE FUTURE, and you can use better parts as they become available, then the Modular Motorcraft ignition is the way to go.
Remember, there have been NUMEROUS upgrades for the 'Ford/Motorcraft' ignition since it was introduced in 1975,
But you are still stuck with the same parts, now made in 'China', for the GM HEI since 1974... And it still doesn't work particularly well, the only thing you can say for it is... It's better than breaker points, and it's 'Easy' to hook up...

TUNING,
You only tune the ignition ONCE to the tire size, final drive ratio, type of driving you do, ect.
So taking an extra 10 minutes to get the tune right for the next 50,000 or more miles isn't an issue...
Remember, the vacuum advance, centrifugal advance, ect are all tuneable from the factory with Jeep/Motorcraft distributor...

While you have to replace the GM HEI vacuum canister if you want an adjustable one (around $35), and you have to pull the distributor shaft, take it to a machine shop and have the centrifugal advance slots machined out or welded up if you want to change centrifugal advance...

Centrifugal TIMING can be changed the same way on both distributors, they even use the same spring sets, so the RATE can be changed, but only the Jeep/Motorcraft comes from the factory with adjustable centrifugal advance.
(and those advance weights aren't under the rotor acting like a huge 'Ground' attracting your spark energy!)

Quote:
Plus the whole parts available anywhere is a nice benefit.
But to each his own.
Yup, to each his own, just give the correct and truthful information...

If you have a mild I-6 engine and for some reason the ignition is missing,
Or you want to switch from breaker points, Prestolite or some other failing system,
Then by all means, an HEI or HEI Clone is cheap, 'Easy', and you will probably not find the failings in that particular design.
You are never going to rev an I-6 to 5,000 RPM (or above) and hold it there,
So the HEI will not melt down or fail you at 2,500-3,500 RPM in an I-6 engine.

If you are trying for maximum fuel mileage,
Maximum ignition power,
Tune ability,
Or have a V-8 engine that WILL see the 'Up' side of 4,000 RPM,
Then I would suggest an ignition that will support that V-8, or get that fuel lit for mileage, ect.

Like I've said for 40 years, the Motorcraft distributor is the best kept secret in racing!
Since you have one stock in most cases, no sense in NOT taking advantage of it,
And since the upgraded cap, rotor, plug wires don't cost you any more than the factory AMC/Jeep crap parts when you tune up,

The upgrade costs you ZERO DOLLARS over a proper tune up, which most of us need anyway...
While the HEI/Clone will cost you $300 for a 'Safe' version...

REMEMBER,
'Free' internet information is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!
LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JeepHammer is offline  
post #51 of 62 Old 02-25-2014, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 11,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by BantamTJ View Post
Just completed the "Team Rush" upgrade on my '79 J10, went full MSD including 6A CDI control module, what a difference, runs great. I was a bit surprised after pulling the plugs to clean & re-gap & discovered they were already @ .050 (one was .053 another @ .032) NOT cool!
Many thanks JH!!!
Looks like you did a good job!
People can't believe it's the same engine once it gets a good tune up, I see that all the time...

Some guys say "It's Tired and needs rebuilt" or whatever, but when you get the fire lit, and at the correct time, it makes a HUGE difference even in high mileage engines!

What kills me is they pull a perfectly good distributor, coil, ect. just to put a clone of another STOCK ignition back in, all the while shoveling over about $300 for a 'Safe' one to install with all the problems HEI's have,

While this is basic 'Tune Up' parts you needed to replace anyway,
And by asking for cap, rotor, plug wires from a 'Ford' vehicle instead of 'Jeep' vehicle,
It costs ZERO DOLLARS EXTRA from what you were needing to buy anyway!

It really is FREE performance, and I just have the hardest time getting people to understand that!

It's REALLY a butt kicker with the CDI module installed!
I've tried it myself, you CAN fire a spark plug in a cup of oil using a CDI module, so these overly RICH, or overly lean carb engines really benefit from a CDI module...
redwoodgrown likes this.

REMEMBER,
'Free' internet information is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!
LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LINK:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JeepHammer is offline  
post #52 of 62 Old 02-25-2014, 09:13 PM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 18,650
If.you can deal with the fact that every remaned Motorcrap has a different advance head and spring combo and the parts stores don't distinguish between them, and the shaft leaks oil into the advance housing, and the pickup comes loose causing the timing to jump around, and the V8 version requires a custom made clip to hold the adapter, and changing the advance curve requires disassembling the entire dizzy.....then it's a great setup.

If you don't care to deal with those headaches, then there are certainly better options available, IMO.

Those are just my experiences with the last 3 Motorcraps I've purchased in the last 2 years.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #53 of 62 Old 03-31-2014, 05:18 PM
MountainHound
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Aurora
Posts: 144
I am installing the hesco mpfi kit and I am at the end and wiring the alternator and coil etc... Just wanted to ask JH if there is a diagram for it as it may help others.

Alternator:
Removing the 3A diode p/n 276-1143 and replacing it with the 7.5A one that comes with the kit. Also, I replaced the SI with a CS alternator a while back. I used the conversion pigtail with a resistor and it ohmed out at 150 ohms. Asked Hesco if the resistor is needed haven't heard back yet. Any thoughts?

Ballast resistor:
Removing ballast resistor and splicing the wires together as per the instructions.

Coil:
Splicing the coil + to the Hesco harness.

1979 CJ7
2011 WK2
MountainHound is offline  
post #54 of 62 Old 03-21-2016, 09:39 AM
Y-Not
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 15
Another GREAT thread--all the things I didn't know about automotive electrical and was afraid to ask--LOL.

Subsribed!!!
Y-Not is offline  
post #55 of 62 Old 09-30-2016, 01:15 AM
Sambone1973
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: simpsonville
Posts: 57
Garage
just the parts list

i have a 79 cj with a 304 and i wanted to do the ignition upgrade you are talking about in this thread. Can I have just the parts list you used for the the upgrade. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
Sambone1973 is offline  
post #56 of 62 Old 09-30-2016, 01:35 AM
Sambone1973
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: simpsonville
Posts: 57
Garage
i want to do this upgrade on my 79 cj with a 304 can you please give me just the parts list using the CID, distributor,rotor button, coil and wire upgrade you are speaking of in this post. thanks so much for your help in advance.
Sambone1973 is offline  
post #57 of 62 Old 09-30-2016, 01:47 AM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 18,650
Re-read post #2. All the info is there.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #58 of 62 Old 09-30-2016, 03:01 AM
Sambone1973
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: simpsonville
Posts: 57
Garage
found a past list for everyone

The Jeep 304 & 360 CID AMC V-8 from 1978 to 1990 are eligible for this upgrade. The 304 & 360 CID Engines from '78 to '90 used the same Motorcraft distributor for all variations.
(*If you have a 304 or 360 CID V-8, 1977 or older, I urge you to see below*)

There are three upgrades listed below,
1. BASIC UPGRADE. No modification required to any 'Hard' parts. No cutting of any wiring harness. Does not increase spark energy, just makes sure it gets where it's supposed to go and helps smooth out idle. No options and has to be done all at once.
2. MILD PERFORMANCE UPGRADE. A small amount of modification required. This upgrade builds on the BASIC UPGRADE for faster response times, better starting, and much higher spark energies.
3. EXTREME PERFORMANCE UPGRADE. A fair amount of modification required. This is an upgrade that should only be done after the second upgrade has been done.

THERE IS ALSO:
HIGH PERFORMANCE UPGRADES EXPLANATIONS, TIPS, TRICKS, & TROUBLE SHOOTING SECTION, At the bottom of this article (before the part numbers), there is a Tips & Tricks section. This small section will answer 99% of questions before they have to be asked on the BBS.
DISTRIBUTOR UPGRADES FOR OLDER VEHICLES, A WIRING DIAGRAM ATTACHED TO THIS POST, A wiring diagram for the Motorcraft/ Dura Spark ignition system. PART NUMBERS FROM SEVERAL SOURCES.

---------------------------------

ABOUT THE MOTORCRAFT DISTRIBUTOR.
The Motorcraft distributor type is one of the most dependable ever released from the factory. The distributor it's self is a very good unit, and can easily be tuned and used for even extreme performance upgrades.

WHAT JEEP WAS UP TO.
Jeep used the small 'well' type distributor cap, short rotor, low energy ignition spark plug wires and low output ignition coil to save money. Those money saving items are the problem. The distributor cap design is left over from the 1920's. (WWI technology) The plug wires haven't changed in any distinct way since the 40's. (WWII technology) The ignition coil is still based on the oil filled units that appeared in the 1920's. (WWI)

BEFORE WE START.
The below described upgrades use as many stock, off the shelf parts, as possible, so they can be replaced at any parts store. This keeps cost and replacement parts availability problems to a minimum.
I also try not to get away from factory groupings. If I use all parts from the same year, then it makes it easier to remember where things come from. If you decide to go onto the second and third upgrades, make sure you print a copy of this article and put it into your service manual or vehicle papers.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ ________________

1. BASIC UPGRADE;
USE THIS UPGRADE ONLY IF YOU INTEND TO USE YOUR STOCK COIL AND WIRING HARNESS WITH NO MODIFICATIONS.

--------------------------------

WHAT GETS REPLACED.
Stock Parts To Replace: (stock jeep components) Distributor Cap, Rotor, and Plug Wires.

--------------------------------

What To Use For Replacement:
FROM: From A 1979 Ford F-350 Truck With A 460 CID Engine. Distributor Cap Base, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Spark Plug Wires,

Make sure you don't forget the basics, and get a good quality distributor cap & rotor with brass terminals or you are just wasting time and money with this upgrade.

THIS BASIC UPGRADE REQUIRES NO MODIFICATION OR FABRICATION OF ANY 'HARD' PARTS. IT IS ALL DIRECT REPLACEMENT OF EXISTING PARTS.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ ________________



2A. MILD PERFORMANCE UPGRADE.
These up grades are designed to enhance the already formidable Motorcraft ignition system. This upgrade will surpass the GM HEI system by about 1-1/2 times... (YES! That's correct, the Motorcraft TFI coil stomps the snot out of the GM HEI!)

--------------------------------

WHAT GETS REPLACED.
Stock Parts To Replace: (stock jeep components) Distributor Cap, Rotor, Plug Wires, Ignition Coil, and Distributor Advance Springs.

--------------------------------

What To Use For Replacement:
FROM: From A 1984 Ford F-350 Truck With A 460 CID Engine With ECC. Distributor Cap Base, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Spark Plug Wires, Ignition Coil,
__________________________________________________ ________________
Make sure you don't forget the basics, and get a good quality distributor cap & rotor with brass terminals or you are just wasting time and money with this upgrade.

If you ask for the components from an engine WITH ECC (Electronic Combustion Control) you will get the square TFI (Thick Film Integrated) ignition coil, and the plug wire set with the correct coil wire. You will have to remove (cut) the stock coil connector from the wiring harness in order to connect the TFI coil. You will also have to fabricate a coil bracket, or locate a stock application coil bracket.

The TFI coil will work with ALL of the DuraSpark modules. It's an odd looking thing, but can be mounted in any orientation (even up side down). The TFI coil uses a full 12 volts, and doesn't use a resistor of any kind. The coil from a '84 Ford F-350 Truck with a V-8 engine (With-EEC). The coil runs about $15 to $45 in discount stores.

THIS COIL REQUIRES A DIFFERENT COIL WIRE THAN THE OLD TYPE 'CAN' COIL, SO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CORRECT COIL WIRE BEFORE LEAVING THE STORE.

--------------------------------

2B. Distributor Centrifugal Advance Springs
FROM: Aftermarket Supplier. Mr. Gasket P/N 925D (Around $4.00) These springs DO NOT have to be installed when the upgrade is done. It is just a way to get a little more 'zip' out of your engine.

This upgrade will bring your Jeep ignition system into the mainstream 80's technology.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ ________________

3. EXTREME PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Once the cap, rotor, plug wires and ignition coil have been upgraded, then you can use some racing technology in the form of.....

The next HUGE jump in ignition performance is the CAPACITIVE Discharge Ignition (CDI).

All factory ignitions, and most aftermarket ignitions supposed to be upgrades for the Jeep are still INDUCTIVE discharge ignitions (IDI), including the extremely expensive and temperamental D.U.I. ignitions and all JACOBS ignitions.

Multiple Spark Discharge (A module upgrade, from Inductive to CDI) gives vastly superior ignition energy on all counts. Spark Duration, Spark Voltage, and Spark Amperage are all increased to the point were misfires are unheard of. The MSD Capacitive discharge module driven ignition will out perform the Inductive ignitions in all areas, from 100 to 1,000%. MSD is the biggest bang for your bucks.

The MSD 6 series units are the workhorses of the MSD product line, and there are several different versions of the 6 series unit available, depending on your intended application. The MSD 6A is a full CDI unit that is more than capable of operating above 15,000 RPM with your stock coil. There are Weather sealed Off-Road units, and Marine units for deep water fording operations.

The MSD 6 series units are compatible with all Motorcraft distributors and ignition coils.

The most common, MSD 6 series, units are 50 State Emissions legal!

Use Wiring Adaptor P/N 8869 to connect the Motorcraft distributor connector to the MSD 6A and 6AL harness. (Around $10.) This wiring pigtail keeps you from having to cut into the distributor wiring or the MSD wiring, and it keeps the distributor pick up coil polarity correct.

There is one for the marine and off road units with the Weather Pack connector, but the part number evades me right now. If you have a later model Jeep with a 'computer', there are harnesses that will allow you to use MSD and keep your computer functioning. By doing just that, you stay 50 State Emissions legal with the later model Jeeps.

You can browse the MSD website at, http://www.msdignition.com You can contact MSD by phone at, MSD Tech. 1-915-855-7123

MSD hardware can be purchased at http://www.summitracing.com Summit Racing Equipment phone number, 1-800-230-3030.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ ________________


HIGH PERFORMANCE UPGRADES EXPLANATIONS:

The Distributor Cap Base lifts up the distributor cap, and puts more physical distance between the high spark energies and the grounded internals of the distributor. This helps stop spark energies going to ground and causing misfires.

The Taller Rotor serves the same purpose, and keeps spark energy from being lost to the distributor shaft like the GM HEI has a real problem with.

The Wider Distributor Cap physically moves the high voltage terminals apart to help stop crossfire inside the cap. The Wider Distributor Cap also has the much more desirable high-energy 'tower' type terminals.

The Spark Plug Wires are designed to manage the much higher voltages of the high- energy ignition coils, and have much better boot designs at both the distributor cap and at the spark plugs.

The TFI (Thick Film Integrated) Ignition Coil is a high output epoxy filled unit that can be mounted in any orientation, puts out about 2-1/2 times the usable spark energy of the typical 'Can' type coil, and about 1-1/2 times the usable spark energy of the GM HEI in cap coil, with out affecting the ignition trigger, and the current is delivered in a controllable manner.

Change the centrifugal advance springs to some Mr. Gasket P/N 925D Springs, about $4. This will allow the total ignition advance to come in faster. (Faster ignition advance is often the performance 'kick' that switching to a GM Style HEI distributor gives)

The CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition) throws about 400 volts at the ignition coil, compared to the puny 12 volts of an Inductive ignition. With a 400-volt supply to the coil the coil saturation time problem is completely overcome, and the MSD module it's self is capable of firing the ignition system reliably at 15,000 RPM and above. With the combination of the MSD module not becoming unstable as an ignition module, and not having a coil saturation problem, the ignition becomes as trouble free as any complex mechanical device can be.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ _______________

TIPS, TRICKS & TROUBLESHOOTING.
--------------------------------
DISTRIBUTOR
The stock Motorcraft distributor is just fine for any stock application. It is also just fine for any engine that operates below 5,000 RPM. Expensive billet distributors are not needed for stock or slightly modified, applications

The centrifugal advance springs can be accessed by, Taking the distributor out of the engine, Taking the vacuum advance off, (don't loose the little 'C' clip!) Taking the two screws out of the floor plate, and lifting the entire shaft and advance assemblies until the weights and springs are visible. DO NOT hammer on the shaft! Stand it up in parts cleaning solvent until you can pull the shaft out by hand. It may take a day or two of soaking and pulling, so be prepared. You must grease all friction surfaces before reassembly. (Top and bottom bearings, and the thrust washers above the drive gear)

You DO NOT have to use the same type of spring on both sides. It is the total spring pressure that determines the centrifugal advance. (Heavy/ heavy, heavy/ medium, medium/ medium, medium/ light, etc.)

An even number of teeth on the distributor gear means no front or back, so the distributor gear can go back on either way. If you have an odd number of teeth on the drive gear, make sure you mark the gear to align with the rotor nose. (I do them all this way, no matter what it comes off of)

GO EASY ON THE DRIVE GEAR! The drive gear is made of cast iron, and is pretty fragile. Don't clamp it in a vise too tight, and don't hammer on the gear when you take the roll pin out. I always use a vice to press the new roll pin in on reassembly.

--------------------------------
DISTRIBUTOR CAP & ROTOR
The distributor cap and rotor should be a quality set, with brass terminals in the cap, and a brass blade in the rotor nose. This is one area that should not be over looked. I the cases of the 'Can' style coil, a distributor cap with aluminum terminals will offset any increases you may gain with a premium coil... So protect your investment, and get the premium cap & rotor.

--------------------------------
PLUG WIRES
What I try to look for in a set of plug wires is good boots & connectors on both ends, low resistance, and good RF noise suppression. The three basic types of wires on the market right now are;
1. Solid Core. Never Ever use solid core wires on anything with an electronic ignition!
2. Fiber/ Graphite Core. Accel, Taylor, Jacobs and the $20 lifetime warranty brand of discount store wires fall into this category. These wires are perfectly all right if you do not plan to optimize your ignition system, and want to stay with the stock type technology developed in the 1940's.
3. Helically Wound Core, or Spiral Core. This type uses a thin wire wrapped around the resistor core, and makes a good RF choke, while conducting more of the spark energy where it can do the most good, the spark plug.

The highest output wires with the lowest resistance we tested were made by MSD.

--------------------------------
SPARK PLUGS

Extensive testing produced no clear results with spark plugs. The very same engine may run best with one kind of plugs, and an engine built exactly the same in every way may do better with a different kind of plugs.

There are some basic guidelines that stay true no matter what the engine, or application.
1. The more expensive plugs DO NOT perform better than the standard brands.
2. The 'Gapless' or 'Horizontal Gap' spark plugs require the flame front to travel down, and then turn 90 degrees to travel correctly across the combustion chamber.
3. Standard Spark Plugs orient the spark in the correct direction, and inject it deep into the combustion chamber.
4. Indexing spark plug ground electrodes on anything but the highest performance output engines is a waste of time and effort. With modern plug gaps, and ignition energies, the ground electrode doesn't present enough of an obstacle to worry about.
5. I have never seen any extra horsepower, torque, longevity or reliability out of the 'V' Split ground electrode spark plugs.
6. If you pry down on the center electrode to gap the plugs, you have a 50/50 chance of just destroying the plug internally.
7. If you ever drop a plug on anything hard, throw the plug away and get another one. It's not worth the $1 each to take a chance on loosing 1/8 of your total horsepower.
8. Always use an 'Anti-Seize' type product on the threads before installing spark plugs. It insures the threads don't seize in the head, and it insures a good electrical ground to the head.
9. Make sure your spark plug wire connectors 'Snap' into place. If they don't 'Snap', figure out how to 'pinch' them closed so they do 'Snap' into place. A solid connection at the plug head connector is essential to proper function.
10. Remember to use a little Dielectric grease on the spark plug porcelain to 'seal' any voltage leaks.

--------------------------------
DURA SPARK MODULE
There are at least a dozen kinds of DuraSpark modules on the open market. The modules are identified by the color of plastic grommet that connects the wiring to the module housing. The most common is the 'BLUE GROMMET'. The 'Blue Grommet' module is the one most Jeepers will want to use.

All Dura Spark modules are full 12-volt units. Anything less than 12 volts and the module becomes unstable. (Ask anyone driving a Ford that threw an alternator belt)

All but the Ford SVO Dura Spark units, and a couple of aftermarket units, become unstable at around 3,500 RPM, and can fail completely at around 4,500 RPM. Most stock or mildly modified vehicles will not operate long enough above 4,000 RPM long enough to uncover the flaw. (The only reliable ignition above 6,500 RPM I know of is MSD 6,7.8,9, & 10 series, and they are good to over 15,000 RPM)

The black wire that comes out of module and goes to the four-wire connector is the ONLY GROUND FOR THE MODULE. It normally grounds through the distributor wiring. I always splice into the black wire, and solder a second lead to it, and ground it to a solid engine or battery ground on the racecars.

The DuraSpark module can be reliably triggered by any of the factory, and most aftermarket, magnetic pickup coils, so it can by used to get you home in a pinch no matter what kind of electronic ignition you have.

--------------------------------
THE IGNITION COIL
There are two basic ignition coils to choose from. Both can be interchanged at will, as there are no differences in primary resistance, and both are full 12-volt coils. The choices are;
The 'Canister' or 'Can' or 'Volcano' coil, and,
The TFI (Thick Film Integrated) or 'Square' coil.

Like most of the automotive ignition systems, progress sense the 1920's has been slow. The TFI coil is a large improvement over the canister coil, but should have been done 45 or 50 years ago when the technology first became available.

'Can' coils have several draw backs, but the biggest two are the current outputs on the high voltage side are lacking, and these are oil filled for the most part, and must be operated with the high voltage tower pointing up, or coil damage can result.

Switching to the TFI (Thick Film Integrated) coil will effectively double the usable spark energy, and can be mounted in any orientation. The TFI coil has the added benefit of having the 'Tower' style high voltage terminal, and the high voltage terminal much farther away from potential grounds than the 'Can' type coil.

When upgrading to a TFI coil on a factory ignition system, some attention has to be paid to the voltage POLARITY. If you hold a 'Can' coil with the Primary 'horseshoe' connector at the top, above the high voltage tower, the Primary Green wire, Negative, is on the Left, and the Primary Red wire, Positive, is on the Right.

If you hold a TFI coil with the Primary connector at the top, and the high voltage tower at the 6 o'clock position, the wiring hookup is reversed. With the TFI coil, the Primary Positive, Red wire, is on the Left, and the Primary Negative, the Green wire, is on the Right. If you look into the Primary Connector, the polarity is usually marked there (/-).

(See the attached Wiring Diagram)

--------------------------------
TFI COIL BRACKET
The TFI coil bracket can be salvaged off of any V-8, V-6 or I-6 engine that used it. All Ford cars past 1986 had the TFI coil (according to the interchange book), so there should be an abundance of coil brackets in the junkyard and parts houses. (The one I used was from a 91 Mustang with 302 V-8.)

Fabrication of a bracket is pretty easy with any kind of metal. I have seen a dozen done out of 1" X 1" X 1/8" angle iron about 3" long, and these work as well as anything I have ever seen. They take about 20 minutes to fabricate with a dremel tool or file, hand drill, and hack saw.

A good ground on the bracket and coil frame will help keep the RF noise out of your radios.

--------------------------------
WIRING HARNESS
If you intend on upgrading from breaker points, Prestolite or whatever ignition, you may have to fabricate a wiring harness, or you may want to modify your wiring harness for a MSD or TFI coil, or what ever...

Proper connections are a three step process...
1. Mechanical Connections. Use UN insulated metal crimp connectors, solid copper if you can find them, and a good set of crimping pliers. Cheap crimpers can do more damage than good. Never use aluminum connectors on anything.
2. Electrical Connections. Many people think that the mechanical connection will provide the electrical connection. Not true in all cases. The only way to be sure is to solder all connections with silver bearing rosin core solder. I can recommend Radio Shack P/N 64-013. It will stick to almost anything, melts at an acceptably low temperature, and does a great job of tinning the wire.
3. Heat Shrink Tubing. The tubing slipped over the wire before the connection is made, and pulled into place when the connection is finished. The Tubing shrinks down on the wire to seal moisture out of the connection. If the correct tubing is used, and it's installed correctly, the joint should be trouble free for the life of the vehicle.

Look in the parts lists to find the connectors to make your own wiring harness.

__________________________________________________ ________________

FOR OLDER VEHICLES:
*1977 And Older 304 & 360 CID V-8 Engines With The Delco Breaker Points Style Distributor. You have three choices,
1. Up Grade to the Motorcraft distributor & DuraSpark ignition module, and add the upgrades described above for the Motorcraft distributor.
2. Use an electronic ignition conversion kit for the Delco distributor. If you install an electronic trigger in the Delco distributor, you may use the DuraSpark or MSD ignition modules, but you will have to go to the aftermarket for adequate distributor caps & rotors.
3. Use a MSD ignition module that will work with breaker points. You will still have to go the aftermarket for adequate distributor caps & rotors.

*1977 And Older 304 & 360 CID V-8 Engines With The Prestolite Electronic Ignition. The Prestolite Distributor can easily be recognized by the large vacuum advance canister just below the distributor head. AND THE DEAD GIVE AWAY IS THE VACUUM ADVANCE IS MADE OF PLASTIC. The only choice you have is to upgrade to the Motorcraft Distributor and DuraSpark or MSD Module.

__________________________________________________ ________________
__________________________________________________ ________________
4. PART NUMBERS.


4A. FORD PART NUMBERS.
--------------------------------
84 TFI Factory Coil, P/N
84 TFI Factory Coil Connector,
84 TFI Coil Bracket,
--------------------------------
79 Round 'Can' Style Coil,
79 Round 'Can' Coil Connector, P/N D7AB 14489 HA, $.
79 Round 'Can' Coil Bracket,
-------------------------------
Lifetime Warrenty Spark Plug Wires...
1979 Ford 460 CID, For 'Can' Coil, P/N
1984 Ford 460 CID, With ECC, For TFI Coil, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap Base For V-8 Distributors...
All Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1985, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap For V-8 Motorcraft Distributors, 1976 to 1996...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
--------------------------------
Rotor For Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1996...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
--------------------------------
MISC. CONNECTORS:
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Power Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Ignition Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft Distributor Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft 'Can' Coil Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft TFI Coil Connector, P/N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4B. MSD PART NUMBERS.
--------------------------------
84 TFI Premium Coil, P/N 8227, $45.
84 TFI Coil Connector, P/N 8874, $14.
84 TFI Coil Bracket, N/A from MSD
-------------------------------
79 Ford Round 'Can' Premium Coil, P/N 8205, $33.
79 Ford Round 'Can' Coil 'Horseshoe' Connector , N/A from MSD.
79 Ford Round 'Can' Coil bracket, P/N 8213, $13.50
--------------------------------
Spark Plug Wires...
1979 Ford 460 CID, For 'Can' Coil, P/N 3122 (8 MM), $50.
1984 Ford 460 CID, For TFI Coil, P/N 3122 (8 MM), $50.
79 or 84 Premium Set Of Spark Plug Wires, P/N 31229 (8.5 MM), $60.
Replacment Coil Wire, Works With Both TFI and Can Coils, P/N 84039, $13.39
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap Base For V-8 Distributors...
All Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1984, P/N 8409, $9.99
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap For V-8 Motorcraft Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N 8408, $11.95
--------------------------------
Rotor For Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N 8407, $5.39
--------------------------------
Kit For Motorcraft Distributor,
Distributor Cap Base, Distributor Cap, Rotor, P/N 8414, $25.50
--------------------------------
MSD 6 Series Modules,
The MSD 6A, P/N 6200, unit is enough for most stock or lightly modified applications.
Around $135.
The MSD 6AL, P/N 6420, unit is the Cadillac of the 6 series with compatibility with all of the usual MSD timing devices, and it has a built in Soft Touch Rev Control. Around $175.
The MSD 6 Off Road, This unit is built like a tank. Epoxy sealed for water resistance and equipped with Weather Pack water proof connectors. Around $215.
The MSD 6M-2, P/N 6460, is completely water sealed, and was intended for offshore power boating. This is the hot ticket for the guys doing water racing or deep water fording. It comes with both sides of Weather Pack connectors for sealed connections also. Around $250.
--------------------------------
MSD/ AMC V-8, Solid Billet Distributor, P/N 5819 Around $226.
--------------------------------
MISC. CONNECTORS:
MSD Wiring Harness To Motorcraft Distributor Connector, P/N 8869, $16.
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft 'Can' Coil Connector, N/A from MSD
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft TFI Coil Connector, P/N 8874, $14.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4C. NAPA PART NUMBERS.
--------------------------------
84 TFI Premium Coil, P/N IC24, $48.
84 TFI Coil Connector, P/N ICC1, $13.
84 TFI Coil Bracket,
--------------------------------
79 Ford Round 'Can' Coil, P/N
79 Ford Round Coil Connector, P/N ICA102, $8.50.
79 Ford Round 'Can' Coil Bracket,
--------------------------------
Lifetime Warrenty Spark Plug Wires...
1979 Ford 460 CID, For 'Can' Coil, P/N
1984 Ford 460 CID, With ECC, For TFI Coil, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap Base For V-8 Distributors...
All Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1984, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap For V-8 Motorcraft Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Store Brand, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Economy, With Aluminum Termanals, (Not Recommended) P/N
--------------------------------
Rotor For Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Economy, Made From Who Knows What, P/N
--------------------------------
MISC. CONNECTORS:
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Power Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Ignition Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft Distributor Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft 'Can' Coil Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft TFI Coil Connector, P/N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4D. CAR QUEST PART NUMBERS.
--------------------------------
84 TFI Premium Coil, P/N , $.
84 TFI Economy Coil, P/N , $.
84 TFI Coil Connector, P/N
84 TFI Coil Connector,
-------------------------------
TFI COIL P/N BY MANUFACTURER,
Borg Warner, P/N E-92
AC Delco, P/N F503Z
Standard Ignition, P/N FD479
Niehoff, P/N FF-179
-------------------------------
79 Ford Style Round 'Can' Premium Coil, P/N
79 Ford Style Round 'Can' Economy Coil, P/N 26194, $13.
79 Ford Round 'Can' Coil Connector, P/N
--------------------------------
Lifetime Warrenty Spark Plug Wires...
1979 Ford 460 CID, For 'Can' Coil, P/N
1984 Ford 460 CID, With ECC, For TFI Coil, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap Base For V-8 Distributors...
All Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1985, P/N
--------------------------------
Distributor Cap For V-8 Motorcraft Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Store Brand, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Economy, With Aluminum Termanals, (Not Recommended) P/N
--------------------------------
Rotor For Motorcraft V-8 Distributors, 1976 to 1984...
Premium, With Brass Terminals, P/N
Economy, Made From Who Knows What, P/N
--------------------------------
76 to 85 Ford Dura Spark Module, Premium, P/N
76 to 85 Ford Dura Spark Module, Economy, P/N
--------------------------------
MISC. CONNECTORS:
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Power Connector, P/N
Wiring Harness To DuraSpark Ignition Connector, P/N S-698, $11.
Wiring Harness To Motorcraft Distributor Connector,
Rollbar likes this.
Sambone1973 is offline  
post #59 of 62 Old 11-07-2016, 11:00 PM
Chiefww
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 10
Great thread!
Chiefww is offline  
post #60 of 62 Old 11-08-2016, 12:16 AM
BagusJeep
Registered User
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 5,766
Just picked up the parts for another Teamrush on a 258, with brass cap, adapter, brass rotor arm, leads (United) and even Champion spark plugs for $36 plus shipping. Rock on Rockauto.

This will be my fourth Teamrush.

An MSD6A and e-core coil and an HEI module are in the cupboard, just need more time.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
jeephammer v8 teamrush 304 to 360 ignition upgrade oxynerd Jeep CJ Forum 27 11-12-2014 06:51 PM
Next step Team Rush upgrade ignition upgrade tevans59 Jeep CJ Forum 7 03-29-2010 04:39 PM
What is a TeamRush upgrade ? tevans59 Jeep CJ Forum 6 01-11-2010 06:02 PM
teamrush upgrade on 77 jeep with breaker points 89s15 Jeep CJ Forum 2 08-29-2008 11:01 PM
Teamrush upgrade on 76 CJ5 76silvercj5 Jeep CJ Forum 9 08-26-2008 03:49 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome