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Unread 05-05-2013, 05:53 PM   #46
Pacfanweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BantamTJ View Post
True, I DO need vacuum given the type of driving I do, and my engine is mostly stock with an RV cam.



Not looking so much for a plug-n-play quick fix but rather an overall ignition upgrade. Read up on Team Rush 304-360 ignition upgrade and you'll see why I decided this route would be best for me.

Thanks
I know all about it. The Large Cap upgrade isn't an "upgrade" over an HEI. That was my point. The BEST you could ever hope for with the Large Cap upgrade (team rush, although it was around long before it was called this) is to get even with an HEI. It basically makes the Duraspark system into what the HEI already is. Larger cap, so you can increase your plug gap, better spark plug wire connections, etc. And if you take the "upgrade" all the way, it has you replacing the Duraspark module and wiring in an HEI module.
And if you already had a Duraspark system, this might make sense, but since you need the whole mess replaced anyway, it doesn't. The HEI is of similar cost, and MUCH easier to do, and easier to tune once it's in there. Plus the whole parts available anywhere is a nice benefit.
But to each his own.

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Unread 05-05-2013, 08:53 PM   #47
BantamTJ
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Thank you for your input. My dilemma is my current dizzy is a Unilite with it's own module after I yard it out I'll still need an ignition module (as you know), I could have gone the HEI route but I already have a stock dizzy so I figured I'd utilize it then get the spark where it needs to go with the Team Rush thing. I'm kinda green on all of this so I've been muddling my way through hoards of info and thought it'd be a good alternative.

Thanks,
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Unread 05-08-2013, 06:40 AM   #48
BantamTJ
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Just completed the "Team Rush" upgrade on my '79 J10, went full MSD including 6A CDI control module, what a difference, runs great. I was a bit surprised after pulling the plugs to clean & re-gap & discovered they were already @ .050 (one was .053 another @ .032) NOT cool!
Many thanks JH!!!
100_4379.jpg   100_4382.jpg  

Last edited by BantamTJ; 05-08-2013 at 11:45 AM..
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Unread 02-25-2014, 06:16 PM   #49
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
JHammer - I noticed in the first post, concerning the 258 inline 6, that you didn't address the coil like you did in the v8 post. Is this because you feel there is no improvement for that component or was it just an oversite? Either way, I replaced my factory coil (not that it was bad) with a Jacob's back in the late 80's I believe it was. I think it's called a CompuCoil, it's a chrome cannister coil just like the stock one but claimed a higher voltage (40k I think). It still works but has some rust on it and is 20+ years old and since I'm doing a rebuild I was going to replace it. What do you recommend for a replacement? The wires, cap, and rotor have all been upgraded and a Weber32 will be going on it, but other than that it's pretty well stock. It's an 82 so no underdash computer, only the duraspark ignition module, and the idle control module which I think will become pretty much useless once the BBD gets replaced.
This is REALLY late answering, but here goes...

It depends on what MODULE you are using...
The GM style HEI (Clone) module will work best with the E-core coil.
Doesn't matter if it's the Ford style E-core, or the GM style E-cores.
The module was designed to work best with an E-core.

The factory Jeep/Motorcraft DuraSpark module will work best with a CANISTER COIL,
You get slightly more spark energy with the canister coil,
And on an I-6 you are never going to rev the engine where the canister coil breaks down and causes problems.

With an MSD or other CDI module,
It doesn't matter what coil you use, you are still going to get 600% to 1,000% more spark energy to the plugs that you will with the factory modules, and the CDI modules will work with both coils just fine.
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Unread 02-25-2014, 06:52 PM   #50
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacfanweb View Post
I know all about it. The Large Cap upgrade isn't an "upgrade" over an HEI. That was my point. The BEST you could ever hope for with the Large Cap upgrade (team rush, although it was around long before it was called this) is to get even with an HEI.
This would be patently FALSE.

The difference and limitations in the GM HEI, and the HEI style clones will limit the spark energy the unit can handle long before the HEI can catch up with an upgraded Jeep/Motorcraft distributor.

The Jeep/Motorcraft distributor is more tuneable from the factory,
The upgraded cap/rotor design allows the cap/rotor to handle spark energies well in excess of what would destroy or ground out in an HEI,
Not to mention the RPM limitations of the HEI and it's clones.

There simply isn't enough air gap between rotor and 'Ground' since the rotor sits right on top of the distributor shaft in an HEI, so the rotor can't handle the spark energy even close to what the upgraded Jeep/Motorcraft distributor will handle.

There is a reason places like MSD uses a 'Blow Proof' rotor and a Ford style cap instead of the HEI design rotor and cap, and that is because it simply can't handle the spark energies produced by the MSD modules, or any other well tuned maximum output electronic ignition system.

Quote:
It basically makes the Duraspark system into what the HEI already is.
Again, not correct at all.
This allows you to SURPASS the HEI capabilities quite easily, And don't forget,
The Jeep/Motorcraft distributor is more tuneable from the factory, no special or replacement parts to buy to tune it,
And it is more durable and longer lasting because of it's design than the HEI and clones...


Quote:
Larger cap, so you can increase your plug gap, better spark plug wire connections, etc. And if you take the "upgrade" all the way, it has you replacing the Duraspark module and wiring in an HEI module.
Again, misunderstood... and mis-informing people...
The larger cap is to space terminals apart for higher spark energies.
Ford did this with it's basic electronic ignition,
While Jeep decided to stay with the smaller cap used on breaker point ignitions.
This was a short coming from AMC/Jeep, not the Motorcraft distributor, which came with the taller/larger cap when introduced in 'Ford' vehicles...

Now, you simply apply basic common sense here...
The larger the gap between rotor and 'Ground' of the distributor shaft/base, the more spark energy you can pump through the rotor to the plugs...

HEI rotor sits right on top of the distributor shaft, so it blows through or goes around the rotor to the 'Ground' the shaft and advance weights present well before the spark energy will jump from the rotor to the 'Ground' inside the Jeep/Motorcraft with proper rotor/cap upgrade.

If you follow the 'Upgrade' all the way out, and understand WHY you are doing it,
You simply upgrade the cap, rotor & plug wires so they will handle the 600% to 1,000% more spark energy an MSD CDI module will produce!
You don't use a GM HEI module.

The GM HEI module replacement is a 'Scab In' for people that can't find a reliable 'DuraSpark' replacement anymore since 'Ford' (Motorcraft) doesn't make the DuraSpark module and you can't find one that doesn't come from 'China' or someplace like...

*IF*...
You could find a reasonable copy/replacement of the DuraSpark module, it would, like it always has, produce more spark energy than the HEI module does...

The HEI module replacement is simply a $25 replacement for a no longer available DuraSpark module that will live.
It's not an 'Upgrade' other than it's reasonably reliable, it's a move sideways for reliability,
But if you did the proper 'TeamRush Upgrade' all the way to the end, you would have an MSD CDI module making 600% to 1,000% more spark energy than the HEI or HEI clones...

Quote:
And if you already had a Duraspark system, this might make sense, but since you need the whole mess replaced anyway, it doesn't.
This too is a misleading statment...
*IF*...
You want to MAXIMIZE the spark energy you can get to your spark plugs,
Then get with the program and use the distributor cap, rotor, plug wires, ect. that will produce and transmit that spark energy.

A GM HEI or HEI Clone simply WILL NOT do that because of the rotor on the shaft limitation alone.
Around 50,000 volts, the air around the rotor is going to ionize, and the spark is going to bypass or blast through the rotor to 'Ground' at the shaft, and there is NOTHING you can do about it...

So when you see the "50,000 VOLTS!" coils advertised, keep that in mind.
There is much more to spark energy than 'Voltage' and ANY FACTORY COIL CAN PRODUCE 50,000 volts with no problems...

The 'Trick' is getting that spark energy to the spark plugs, which GM HEI/HEI Clones simply can't do...


Quote:
The HEI is of similar cost, and MUCH easier to do, and easier to tune once it's in there.
Again, misleading.

Similar cost, but not similar results.
If you want something that is 'EASY', as in you are simple and lazy, then HEI is your way to go.

If you want something that is MODULAR so it's UPGRADEABLE IN THE FUTURE, and you can use better parts as they become available, then the Modular Motorcraft ignition is the way to go.
Remember, there have been NUMEROUS upgrades for the 'Ford/Motorcraft' ignition since it was introduced in 1975,
But you are still stuck with the same parts, now made in 'China', for the GM HEI since 1974... And it still doesn't work particularly well, the only thing you can say for it is... It's better than breaker points, and it's 'Easy' to hook up...

TUNING,
You only tune the ignition ONCE to the tire size, final drive ratio, type of driving you do, ect.
So taking an extra 10 minutes to get the tune right for the next 50,000 or more miles isn't an issue...
Remember, the vacuum advance, centrifugal advance, ect are all tuneable from the factory with Jeep/Motorcraft distributor...

While you have to replace the GM HEI vacuum canister if you want an adjustable one (around $35), and you have to pull the distributor shaft, take it to a machine shop and have the centrifugal advance slots machined out or welded up if you want to change centrifugal advance...

Centrifugal TIMING can be changed the same way on both distributors, they even use the same spring sets, so the RATE can be changed, but only the Jeep/Motorcraft comes from the factory with adjustable centrifugal advance.
(and those advance weights aren't under the rotor acting like a huge 'Ground' attracting your spark energy!)

Quote:
Plus the whole parts available anywhere is a nice benefit.
But to each his own.
Yup, to each his own, just give the correct and truthful information...

If you have a mild I-6 engine and for some reason the ignition is missing,
Or you want to switch from breaker points, Prestolite or some other failing system,
Then by all means, an HEI or HEI Clone is cheap, 'Easy', and you will probably not find the failings in that particular design.
You are never going to rev an I-6 to 5,000 RPM (or above) and hold it there,
So the HEI will not melt down or fail you at 2,500-3,500 RPM in an I-6 engine.

If you are trying for maximum fuel mileage,
Maximum ignition power,
Tune ability,
Or have a V-8 engine that WILL see the 'Up' side of 4,000 RPM,
Then I would suggest an ignition that will support that V-8, or get that fuel lit for mileage, ect.

Like I've said for 40 years, the Motorcraft distributor is the best kept secret in racing!
Since you have one stock in most cases, no sense in NOT taking advantage of it,
And since the upgraded cap, rotor, plug wires don't cost you any more than the factory AMC/Jeep crap parts when you tune up,

The upgrade costs you ZERO DOLLARS over a proper tune up, which most of us need anyway...
While the HEI/Clone will cost you $300 for a 'Safe' version...
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Unread 02-25-2014, 06:58 PM   #51
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BantamTJ View Post
Just completed the "Team Rush" upgrade on my '79 J10, went full MSD including 6A CDI control module, what a difference, runs great. I was a bit surprised after pulling the plugs to clean & re-gap & discovered they were already @ .050 (one was .053 another @ .032) NOT cool!
Many thanks JH!!!
Looks like you did a good job!
People can't believe it's the same engine once it gets a good tune up, I see that all the time...

Some guys say "It's Tired and needs rebuilt" or whatever, but when you get the fire lit, and at the correct time, it makes a HUGE difference even in high mileage engines!

What kills me is they pull a perfectly good distributor, coil, ect. just to put a clone of another STOCK ignition back in, all the while shoveling over about $300 for a 'Safe' one to install with all the problems HEI's have,

While this is basic 'Tune Up' parts you needed to replace anyway,
And by asking for cap, rotor, plug wires from a 'Ford' vehicle instead of 'Jeep' vehicle,
It costs ZERO DOLLARS EXTRA from what you were needing to buy anyway!

It really is FREE performance, and I just have the hardest time getting people to understand that!

It's REALLY a butt kicker with the CDI module installed!
I've tried it myself, you CAN fire a spark plug in a cup of oil using a CDI module, so these overly RICH, or overly lean carb engines really benefit from a CDI module...
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Unread 02-25-2014, 09:13 PM   #52
Matt1981CJ7
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If.you can deal with the fact that every remaned Motorcrap has a different advance head and spring combo and the parts stores don't distinguish between them, and the shaft leaks oil into the advance housing, and the pickup comes loose causing the timing to jump around, and the V8 version requires a custom made clip to hold the adapter, and changing the advance curve requires disassembling the entire dizzy.....then it's a great setup.

If you don't care to deal with those headaches, then there are certainly better options available, IMO.

Those are just my experiences with the last 3 Motorcraps I've purchased in the last 2 years.

Matt
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Unread 03-31-2014, 05:18 PM   #53
MountainHound
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I am installing the hesco mpfi kit and I am at the end and wiring the alternator and coil etc... Just wanted to ask JH if there is a diagram for it as it may help others.

Alternator:
Removing the 3A diode p/n 276-1143 and replacing it with the 7.5A one that comes with the kit. Also, I replaced the SI with a CS alternator a while back. I used the conversion pigtail with a resistor and it ohmed out at 150 ohms. Asked Hesco if the resistor is needed haven't heard back yet. Any thoughts?

Ballast resistor:
Removing ballast resistor and splicing the wires together as per the instructions.

Coil:
Splicing the coil + to the Hesco harness.
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