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Unread 12-24-2011, 09:22 PM   #16
JeepHammer
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Depends on what distributor you have...

Most of the Howell guys "In the Know" go to a 7 pin GM module since it directly relates to the Howell (GM) fuel injection computer.

GM 7 pin module will work with any of the above listed distributors, and it will work with MSD, just the wiring is a little different...

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Unread 12-24-2011, 09:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjakid View Post
Thanks.
Ah so I guess that unused MSD cut to fit wire set I got that was for a v8 hei ignition system that was missing a ignition wire for a buck from a yard sale was a good deal then.
YUP! About $79 savings!
You CAN buy single wires with ends and boots from MSD if you want to make your set all MSD...
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Unread 12-25-2011, 11:27 AM   #18
dslywalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Depends on what distributor you have...

Most of the Howell guys "In the Know" go to a 7 pin GM module since it directly relates to the Howell (GM) fuel injection computer.

GM 7 pin module will work with any of the above listed distributors, and it will work with MSD, just the wiring is a little different...
Thanx JH i have the stock dizzy.Was going to do the cap and rotor and wire upgrade with the MSD module.Would the 7 pin module be just as good as the MSD.How would the 7 pin module wire.
Great thread Merry Xmas
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Unread 01-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #19
Tcrouch22
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The msd wire set i am looking at has the HEI with it. Do i install that with all of it?
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Unread 01-15-2012, 06:03 AM   #20
gunrun45
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Great thread! It's a LOT of info, to be sure. But I'm very grateful that you spent the time in the details.
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Unread 01-15-2012, 09:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dslywalker View Post
Thanx JH i have the stock dizzy.Was going to do the cap and rotor and wire upgrade with the MSD module.Would the 7 pin module be just as good as the MSD.How would the 7 pin module wire.
Great thread Merry Xmas
This is kind of complicated,
But, you can use the GM 7 pin module directly with your computer to control timing,
Then add on the MSD CDI module, triggered by the 7 pin module/Computer to get CDI discharge at the plugs.

This saves buying a tach adapter also...

Since you are triggering the ignition through a factory module, the computer interfaces with the factory 7 pin module.

The output of the module that would normally connect to the coil actually wires to the MSD CDI unit, and triggers the CDI.

I know it's the equivalent of TWO ignition modules, but it keeps you emissions legal,
It lets the computer control the timing curve so it works better with the fuel injection,
And it still gives you 600% increase in spark energy.

MSD has diagrams on the web site for this install...
Same as adding an emissions legal CDI to a GM Factory fuel injected vehicle...
Just find the diagram for a 7 pin GM module and you are off to the races.

Neither module cares what distributor you have, the trigger output will work with the 4 pin module, the 7 pin module or the CDI module.
Your stock distributor will work with any of them trigger wise, but you may have to lock down the vacuum advance and centrifugal advance since the fuel injection computer will be controlling spark advance.

When I do this,
I either wire sold where the springs are so the centrifugal advance can NOT work,
or a run a screw through between shaft plate and advance head to lock down the centrifugal advance.

Your fuel injection will know vacuum signal through the MAP sensor, so vacuum advance isn't needed.

To stop the vacuum from working, you simply remove the vacuum line to the distributor and plug the vacuum port.
When some 'Inspector' sees the vacuum line is missing, I've had to improvise,
So I shove a 'BB' in the line and put it back on.
It's not working, but it's there for the 'Visual' inspection...

Sometimes it's just easier to go along with the game than try to explain to the idiots what is going on...
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Unread 01-15-2012, 09:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcrouch22 View Post
The msd wire set i am looking at has the HEI with it. Do i install that with all of it?
Do you mean the 'HEI' style plug terminals at the cap?

If so, since you are switching to the 'HEI' style terminals on the cap with the upgrade, those are the ones you want to use...
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Unread 01-15-2012, 12:32 PM   #23
dslywalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
This is kind of complicated,
But, you can use the GM 7 pin module directly with your computer to control timing,
Then add on the MSD CDI module, triggered by the 7 pin module/Computer to get CDI discharge at the plugs.

This saves buying a tach adapter also...

Since you are triggering the ignition through a factory module, the computer interfaces with the factory 7 pin module.

The output of the module that would normally connect to the coil actually wires to the MSD CDI unit, and triggers the CDI.

I know it's the equivalent of TWO ignition modules, but it keeps you emissions legal,
It lets the computer control the timing curve so it works better with the fuel injection,
And it still gives you 600% increase in spark energy.

MSD has diagrams on the web site for this install...
Same as adding an emissions legal CDI to a GM Factory fuel injected vehicle...
Just find the diagram for a 7 pin GM module and you are off to the races.

Neither module cares what distributor you have, the trigger output will work with the 4 pin module, the 7 pin module or the CDI module.
Your stock distributor will work with any of them trigger wise, but you may have to lock down the vacuum advance and centrifugal advance since the fuel injection computer will be controlling spark advance.

When I do this,
I either wire sold where the springs are so the centrifugal advance can NOT work,
or a run a screw through between shaft plate and advance head to lock down the centrifugal advance.

Your fuel injection will know vacuum signal through the MAP sensor, so vacuum advance isn't needed.

To stop the vacuum from working, you simply remove the vacuum line to the distributor and plug the vacuum port.
When some 'Inspector' sees the vacuum line is missing, I've had to improvise,
So I shove a 'BB' in the line and put it back on.
It's not working, but it's there for the 'Visual' inspection...

Sometimes it's just easier to go along with the game than try to explain to the idiots what is going on...
Thanx JH i believe i know what your talking about.I'll start collecting the parts and get them laid out.Yep sometimes that BB is worth its weight in gold.
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Unread 01-22-2012, 09:30 AM   #24
mooncruiser
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Just did my upgrade on my 84 CJ7 w/258...easiest, inexpensive, and noticeable improvement. She runs perfect.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 05:08 PM   #25
ghostship
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I'm installing the cap-a-dapt, wires, plugs and MSD6 this week on my new '78 304.
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Unread 03-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #26
Renegade82
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JHammer - I noticed in the first post, concerning the 258 inline 6, that you didn't address the coil like you did in the v8 post. Is this because you feel there is no improvement for that component or was it just an oversite? Either way, I replaced my factory coil (not that it was bad) with a Jacob's back in the late 80's I believe it was. I think it's called a CompuCoil, it's a chrome cannister coil just like the stock one but claimed a higher voltage (40k I think). It still works but has some rust on it and is 20+ years old and since I'm doing a rebuild I was going to replace it. What do you recommend for a replacement? The wires, cap, and rotor have all been upgraded and a Weber32 will be going on it, but other than that it's pretty well stock. It's an 82 so no underdash computer, only the duraspark ignition module, and the idle control module which I think will become pretty much useless once the BBD gets replaced.
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Unread 03-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #27
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Unread 03-26-2012, 11:22 AM   #28
mooncruiser
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Only question I have is how to get my tach(Sunpro) working. Hooked the green wire to negative side of the coil and it won't register RPM's....needle goes up to zero mark when you turn the key on and start, but nothing else. It is grounded well and red (+) goes to 12v ign source.:confused

Surely someone (Jeephammer??) has an idea of what to do. It's not the tach(2nd one) with same results.

I'm running the ford cap and rotor with ford e-coil...84 CJ7 4.2l

thx
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Unread 04-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #29
zmonster
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JH, your recommendation for a coil please. I have the nutter bypass in place and a Holley carb from the PO. She studders when accelerating in 3rd gear,first and second pull just fine. I am looking to install Team Rush to ensure plenty of spark, then rebuild the card or re- jet if this does not help. Probable both in the end though, great write up. Thanks Z
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Unread 10-24-2012, 08:03 AM   #30
Davethewaveman
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Timing and Misfires with new Summit CDI

Hi guys and Jeephammer...I've read and re-read the teamrush and this thread several times. I live outside the U.S. so getting the parts and accesories is very tough for me, but my 83 CJ7 258 hopefully will be with me for years to come, so I'm trying to do everything right.

I team-rushed with Bosch cables, the Ford cap, new rotor, imported di-electric grease and never-sieze. I am not mechanically intelligent, but I work with my local mechanic, using the forum and translating everything for him.

I had motorcraft plugs for the last 4 years, but recently one fouled and I decided it was finally time to install the new autolite plugs that were recommended in the teamrush thread. I gapped them at .044 and decided to finally install my E-Core coil bought from Summit. Jeep lost power and my mechanic was convinced that the bigger gap plus coil had been too much for the factory module, so we installed the summit cdi.

The Jeep starts like never before...and it idles great. But around what I guess is 2000-3000 rpm (the tach stopped working with the cdi box and it takes a while to import new stuff) starts misfiring. We've tried to adjust timing, move the timing advance vacuum hoses from the carb, remove them, etc. but we can't get the Jeep to run well. It doesn't have much power. My mechanic had the Jeep for the last couple days and told me the only thing he can figure out is that the distributor is failing. He says it's not in very good shape. It seems to be the original, now 30 years old. So here are my questions:

1. Should I get buy an new distributor, and if so, should I stick with a rebuilt cardone, factory, or invest in something like the summit model for $150? Seems like JH says factory. Is this it? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAZ-30-4691/?rtype=10

2. The harmonic balancer is worn out, in bad shape, doesn't show TDC. Should I get a new one, if so, which one do you recommend? Dorman? Omix? Crown? Should I buy the MSD timing tape kit for it, or does it come with that? Do I need to buy a harmonic balancer puller? Which do you recommend?

3. I'm going to buy and install the OEM tachometer. With the summit box that I have SUM-850610 (I took it apart and the guts have the MSD logo!) which tach adapter will I need?

4. Based on other stuff I've described, do you guys have any other recommendations? I really appreciate it, I know everyone is busy and responding to this is a time investment, but I really need help and hopefully your response will help others in the future!
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