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Unread 09-20-2004, 09:34 PM   #1
CJ-5
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Ign module

This may sound like a really stupid Queation, but anyway......
Is there any reason I can't bypass my ignition module and run switched power to the pos lead on the coil, then directly to the P/U coil in the distributor, from the neg lead on the ign coil ???
Just like it was done in the points days.
What does that magic box do anyway ??

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Unread 09-21-2004, 07:42 AM   #2
Geer_hed
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I'm thinking no. Seems like too complex an operation. I had this conversation surrounding the Ign Mod over at off-road, and this guy sounds pretty competent.

http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/s...froadjeepshort
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Unread 09-21-2004, 09:26 AM   #3
CJ-5
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Complex ??

What part sounds complex ??
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Unread 09-21-2004, 09:42 AM   #4
Geer_hed
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The part that's complex is the board on the inside of that Ign Mod that is lined with a series of resistors and switches that allows the ign mod to open and close at specific increments/voltages. The Ign Mod is not "ALWAYS ON" during vehicle operation, evidently, it fluctuates frequently, so I tend to shy from the idea of running constant voltage. I guess I'm just not gutsy enough to try to rig the ignition circuit the way you're talking about doing it.

Good luck... Hope it doesn't on you.
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Unread 09-21-2004, 03:46 PM   #5
CJ-5
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Worst case

worst case will be the p/u coil won't be able to handle all 12V constantly, and fry out. Maybe not right away, it might wait til I'm in the middle of a forest with no tools.....................you know the rest...............
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Unread 09-21-2004, 04:53 PM   #6
jode
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Far too simplistic an assumption IMHO…what about dwell, duration, and all that? Plus, I tend to think that if you ran all that current through your P/U coil, you would smoke it.
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Unread 09-21-2004, 05:22 PM   #7
Aphelion79
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Well if you're talkinga bout the little box thats fixed on the inside of the passenger side wheel well in the engine compartment all it is, is a sucking coil... which when the alternator sends so much power to it, it completes the connection that allows your electronic choke to opperate... thats it...

PC boards... ?!

Quote:
The part that's complex is the board on the inside of that Ign Mod that is lined with a series of resistors and switches that allows the ign mod to open and close at specific increments/voltages. The Ign Mod is not "ALWAYS ON" during vehicle operation, evidently, it fluctuates frequently, so I tend to shy from the idea of running constant voltage. I guess I'm just not gutsy enough to try to rig the ignition circuit the way you're talking about doing it.
Thats how it is on my 4 Cyl anyway... question is do you have a 4 or a 6...
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Unread 09-21-2004, 07:16 PM   #8
rcsutton
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Couple questions, I have 80 - 258, Are all these modules the same? Do they get pretty warm? Would a conversion to a 1 wire alternater have any effect on the module? How does the wire to the choke come into play? Would juice box affect the module? I will copy and past my problem from another thread, Thanks

Well here we go. Installed Weber carb. Ignition module went out. Coincidence? Installed a second one, ran for 5 min went out. Installed 3d one lasted about 3 days 100 miles? Any ideas? I can't imagine Weber in the mix, only thing there is Red wire to choke. The original was working until Weber was installed, then I got about 5 miles on rig before it went. ?????????????

Would any of these mods affect module?
Juice box
1 wire alternator
Weber carb choke wire?
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Unread 09-21-2004, 07:45 PM   #9
CJ-5
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Jode

Maybe I'm missing somthing, but isn't dwell and duration controlled by the weights and the vacuum pot ???
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Unread 09-21-2004, 10:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ-5
Maybe I'm missing somthing, but isn't dwell and duration controlled by the weights and the vacuum pot ???

Where is the condensor? Is that part of the ignition module?
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Unread 09-22-2004, 08:24 AM   #11
Geer_hed
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Ok.

The OEM Duraspark ignition system has a default, non-adjustable dwell. Duration , in this context with respect to the rotation of the rotor button, is synonymous with Dwell. In this case, Dwell never changes, regardless of advance or rpm. The distributor uses centrifugal and vacuum advance to accommodate spark advance. In the OEM setup, the EECU controls the coil spark command from the Pick-up Coil to the Ign Mod. The vacuum advance usually supplements the mechanical advance in keeping with the demand placed on the distributor by idle speed, vacuum, and rpm.

For the most part, the Ign Modules appear to be pretty much the same. Years 73 - 86 appear to call for the same part number, though the engine wiring setup clearly changed over those years.

I've not ripped one of these distributors to pieces, but usually the condensor is somewhere between the Ign Mod and Distributor. I can't say for sure that I've even seen one on my jeep. It's purpose is to soak up excess voltage in the ignition system to keep from frying the points. HEI systems definitely have a condensor. There is a watch-battery sized cylinder on the OEM Jeep Ign Module board integrated with the resistors, so maybe that's it. Yes there's a "PC Board" or rather a circuit board inside that box that makes sense of the input/ouput scheme on all those wires. If you've got a dead one and a torch, if makes for interesting busy work to rip in to one.
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Unread 09-22-2004, 01:28 PM   #12
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thx

Thx Gear hed, that's what I've been looking for.
Thanx also to all the responses of this thread. You have been most respectful of my lack of knowledge in this topic.
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Unread 09-22-2004, 03:02 PM   #13
Geer_hed
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Welcome...
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Unread 09-22-2004, 03:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geer_hed
The part that's complex is the board on the inside of that Ign Mod that is lined with a series of resistors and switches that allows the ign mod to open and close at specific increments/voltages. The Ign Mod is not "ALWAYS ON" during vehicle operation, evidently, it fluctuates frequently, so I tend to shy from the idea of running constant voltage. I guess I'm just not gutsy enough to try to rig the ignition circuit the way you're talking about doing it.

Good luck... Hope it doesn't on you.
that resister is there to void excess voltage spikes upon start up and shut down and during aggressive acceleration spikes.
If you take it out you can burn up your moduel in time...
hope this helps
Keep on Jeep'n
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Unread 09-24-2004, 03:55 PM   #15
jode
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OK - been doing some thinking on this - Here's my thoughts, and make sure to sing out if I get something wrong here…

The pickup coil (in the distributor) - as a magnet passes through some coiled wires, it "induces" current. In other words, the magnetic field acts upon the electrons in the wires and starts them moving. So you have a VERY SMALL amperage electric current.

The ignition coil gets a (+) charge directly from the battery and it is regulated to 7or 8 volts or something by the resistor wire. A field develops in the coil and then remains constant UNTIL a path to (-) is opened up through the ignition module. This path to ground is momentarily opened and allows the field in the ignition coil to momentarily collapse (which sends a high voltage zap down to your spark plugs).

Assuming all of what I just said is correct, if you step back and look at the two systems, you see that the signal sent from the pickup coil is (+) and the signal that allows the ignition coil to fire is (-).
Therefore, running the pickup coil directly to the coil would not be the same as when you used a module and would not work.
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