I-6 'TeamRush Upgrade' (definitive) - Page 7 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > I-6 'TeamRush Upgrade' (definitive)

The ULTIMATE "Selectable" Locker System! BroughECGS Fall Sale - 10% Off EVERYTHING!!Gear Packages Available! Your # 1 Diff Shop is ROCKRIDGE 4

Reply
Unread 02-18-2009, 08:36 AM   #91
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT1CJ7 View Post
Possible, but unlikely.
First, it's not running lean, Look at the HC & CO.
Second, If it were that far advanced, The HC & CO count would be way higher.
Just spit-balling...
What do you suggest?

Fuel additive that carries oxygen would be a 'Quick Answer'...

Here in Indiana, 'Emissions' are defined as 'Excessive Tail Pipe Smoke' and it's up to the cop giving the ticket...

I watch rich/lean and that's about it...

JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 02:13 PM   #92
Tshark299
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,342
What exactly is a "TeamRush" upgrade? I mean... is this any different than the standard TFI or TFI/HEI hybrid upgrades that have been around for years?
__________________
'87 YJ Laredo - 4.0L, AX-15, NP231, 4.10s: 3.5" BDS, 31" Muds

'95 XJ - Donated drive train to the YJ, Parted out the rest

'51 CJ-3A - Buick 225 V6: Painless Wiring Harness, Warn Overdrive & Hubs, 2" Lift, 31" Muds
Tshark299 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #93
Fjguercio
Web Wheeler
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshark299 View Post
What exactly is a "TeamRush" upgrade? I mean... is this any different than the standard TFI or TFI/HEI hybrid upgrades that have been around for years?
Just awfull. Please read the first few pages where it is already explained fully. Seven pages of information and you want to start again.

Oh by way the Original Poster is the author of the subject, TeamRush.

It has nothing to do with TFI/HEI hybrid. TeamRush has been around for several years and looks like you have missed it. Might be worth the read.
Fjguercio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 03:36 PM   #94
LT1CJ7
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: [duhm-as]
Posts: 4,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Just spit-balling...
What do you suggest?

Fuel additive that carries oxygen would be a 'Quick Answer'...

Here in Indiana, 'Emissions' are defined as 'Excessive Tail Pipe Smoke' and it's up to the cop giving the ticket...

I watch rich/lean and that's about it...
High NOx needs a lower oxygen content.
The EGR function induces burnt oxygen into the combustion chambers which reduces NOx.
He said he is failing NOx, not HC or CO
I think that's what he said.
LT1CJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #95
Tshark299
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio
Just awfull. Please read the first few pages where it is already explained fully. Seven pages of information and you want to start again.

Oh by way the Original Poster is the author of the subject, TeamRush.

It has nothing to do with TFI/HEI hybrid. TeamRush has been around for several years and looks like you have missed it. Might be worth the read.

I read the first few pages, as well as the rest of them. What I'm simply trying to figure out is if this something new, since I had never heard of "TeamRush" before reading this thread, that I should look into for my Jeep, or if this is just the same TFI with optional MSD box and/or HEI module I did to my Jeep almost 5 years ago. No offense to the original poster; he's done a teriffic job with the writup. I'm always looking for new ways to improve my Jeep and was just wondering if "TeamRush" implied a new twist or tweak to the long established TFI formulas, because if so, I didn't catch it.

And how does this have nothing to do with a TFI/HEI hybrid setup?? The original poster mentions integrating an HEI module TWICE on page 5. Maybe you're the one that needs to review the past 7 pages ... ?

So, Fjguercio, I was just wondering if "TeamRush" implied some new twist on the old theme, or if it's just what people are calling the TFI upgrade these days. You seem to have caught something that I missed... if so, help me out!!

Oh by the way it's spelled 'awful'..
__________________
'87 YJ Laredo - 4.0L, AX-15, NP231, 4.10s: 3.5" BDS, 31" Muds

'95 XJ - Donated drive train to the YJ, Parted out the rest

'51 CJ-3A - Buick 225 V6: Painless Wiring Harness, Warn Overdrive & Hubs, 2" Lift, 31" Muds
Tshark299 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 05:57 PM   #96
Fjguercio
Web Wheeler
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Tshark,

Yea I am not the greatest speller and I touch type on laptop watching TV. Taught to read by sight. But I do get it as they say.

TeamRush, The Jeeps use Ford DuraSpark Ignition starting in the late 70's. That ignition was updated by Ford with a Larger Taller Cap with brass terminals. This got the spark to the correct cylinder, cut down on cross fires, and the spark going to ground via the Distributor like it does on HEI. So this is a tune up change with a bigger cap and taller rotar with brass terminals. Also discusses some materials are better for making the cap than others... like never by a black cap or rotar. The TeamRush uses a the Ford Adapter so the bigger cap can be used, it has male terminals so the plugs need to be changed also. Many of use have 30 year old coils and they talk about changing those out so the system works well.

JeepHammer caught on to this and lots more and is showing us the way.. See you are into Jeeps if you do not understand this fully you are missing out big time.

An Example
Depending on vitage of Jeep they can take out a weak link like Prestolite Distributor and upgrade to something more modern as an example.

I have a rebuilt engine with all new parts OEM style. I changed to the TeamRush and got 1000 rpms of usefull range, 15% more pep was like adding another cylinder, and added 2.5 mpg HWY with not other changes. I did add a few grounds. Stock 1978 Ignition 20.5 mpg hwy. My wires, cap, plugs brand new to start.

It is well worth the read, I have a few crawls on my profile if you would like to read more.

Hope that helps,
Fred

Last edited by Fjguercio; 02-19-2009 at 09:42 PM..
Fjguercio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 06:14 PM   #97
OCDWheeler
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
I did add a few grounds.
Fred - Can you elaborate on the grounds? I looked at your crawls and marked a couple for myself btw....

I did the Teamrush upgrade a couple days ago, By the book so to speak, adjusted timing to 8 Degrees, and havent had any performance difference....
Before, It idled, ran, and drove nicely but since this is a "new to me" jeep I had to do a tuneup so I'd have a baseline and the Teamrush fit the bill.....Just havent seen a difference.....Maybe I'm missing something....?
__________________
'82 CJ-7
'65 FJ40
Cool Wife
Kids
OCDWheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 08:25 PM   #98
Fjguercio
Web Wheeler
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Here is a past post from JeepHammer on gounds copied & pasted below. I also found a detail on TeamRush and gounds and another coversation in this thread. You guys can look here two and some excellent info. Click the link
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/help-rush-upgrade-ignition-problems-547543/


Regards,
Fred

Quote:
Originally Posted by 79cherokee View Post
Can someone inform me a little more on the extra ground wires that are being talked about on the module and the distributor? (on motocraft set up on an 84 cj7) I had a post earlier and replaced my pick up coil and it ran fine, but the more I read this I think it was a ground problem. I don't want to take any chances on loosing fire again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Virtually the ONLY way to kill a factory coil is by loosing electrical 'Ground' to the engine head(s).

When the head(s) don't get ground, the circuit isn't completed, so the high voltage electrical discharged will jump to ground INTERNALLY, inside it's own coil....
Burning the crap out of the wires in there when it does.

If you add a DEDICATED GROUND WIRE from the battery negative terminal or negative binding post, to the engine head(s) the secondary, or high voltage discharge, will have somewhere to go...
And the bonus is your plugs will fire like they are supposed to!

Some tips,
Use about a 12 Ga. common wire from the battery or binding post.

Clean off the connection point on the head with sandpaper, get down to clean metal before attachment.

Use an Internal Star Washer (Gripper teeth on the inside of the hole) so the contact point STAYS connected.

Use some 'Copper' or 'Gold Colored' 'Anti-Seize' compound on the joint.
The copper base is conductive, so you keep an electrical connection, and the grease helps seal out moisture and dirt.

Run the ground wire on over to the ignition module.
I usually connect it to the 'Black' module wire HARNESS SIDE.
If you connect to the module wire it's self instead of the harness, your warranty might be void on the module,
AND,
You will have to reconnect each time you change modules.

Just trace the 'Back' module wire across it's connector, and splice the ground in on the 'Harness' side of the connector.

The reason for this is the entire Primary side of the ignition system grounds through the module.
Ignition coil and module BOTH get ground through the module...
The distributor is supposed to supply ground to the 'Black' wire, but after 22+ years of corrosion, rust, loose bolts and oil reside, very few ground connections are reliable.
Fjguercio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 08:53 PM   #99
OCDWheeler
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 124
Ok. thanks...This is what I just found reading your posts...

Quote:
AUX GROUNDING NOTICE.... in the E Coil installed picture aboe just to the left of coil there are some aux ground wires. Use some of the copper antiseize on threads and bolt down aux ground wires. Block ground to firewall, dash, and a 2-3in jumper to the coil mount bolt using 10/12 awg black insulated wire. The head ground Helps spark energy... spark to ground. From same location also take 4awg and run to frame and starter mount bolt. Under the alternator frame work there is another ground stud your solenoid ground most likely goes there... Add 10awg to front grill and alternator body.
__________________
'82 CJ-7
'65 FJ40
Cool Wife
Kids
OCDWheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 09:23 PM   #100
Tshark299
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio
TeamRush, The Jeeps use Ford DuraSpark Ignition starting in the late 70's. That ignition was updated by Ford with a Larger Taller Cap with brass terminals. This got the spark to the correct cylinder, cut down on cross fires, and the spark going to ground via the Distributor like it does on HEI. So this is a tune up change with a bigger cap and taller rotar with brass terminals. Also discusses some materials are better for making the cap than others... like never by a black cap or rotar. The TeamRush uses a the Ford Adapter so the bigger cap can be used, it has male terminals so the plugs need to be changed also. Many of use have 30 year old coils and they talk about changing those out so the system works well.

JeepHammer caught on to this and lots more and is showing us the way.. See you are into Jeeps if you do not understand this fully you are missing out big time.
Thanks for the clarifications. I guess what confused me at first was that most of the replies in this thread made it seem like this was a new breakthrough discovery in upgrading the 258 ignition system. However, I couldn't find anything in the writeup that looked any different than the writeups I used when I did this upgrade to my Jeep in early 2004, which is why I originally asked if this was anything more than installing TFI parts, which I've already done a while ago. Back then alot of people were calling this the "JuiceBox" upgrade. In fact, it looks like the JuiceBox in kit form is still available for those that didn't want to piece it together themselves at the auto parts store ( ).

I just recently have become more active on JF after taking a couple years off... always knew this as the "JuiceBox" or simply just the TFI ignition upgrade. Please excuse my ignorance... I was not familiar with the "TeamRush" name!
__________________
'87 YJ Laredo - 4.0L, AX-15, NP231, 4.10s: 3.5" BDS, 31" Muds

'95 XJ - Donated drive train to the YJ, Parted out the rest

'51 CJ-3A - Buick 225 V6: Painless Wiring Harness, Warn Overdrive & Hubs, 2" Lift, 31" Muds

Last edited by Tshark299; 02-20-2009 at 05:16 AM.. Reason: removed link with "bad information"
Tshark299 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-19-2009, 10:00 PM   #101
Fjguercio
Web Wheeler
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Tshark,

Some more changes for you CRT took JeepHammer Upgrade Info & Packaged. BUT they and the general HEI Clones have been using hardened gears, gears cut wrong, and distributors that do not fit or fail. Not Good. Please read this link and remove / edit your post above so JeepForum folks do not go there and the jce crap too are removed. Cut the last 2/3 if you do not mind. The ends of posts get read lots and that not the best stuff.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/crt-hei-cam-gear-question-556294/
Fjguercio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-20-2009, 01:32 AM   #102
motiv8ya
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 911
Is this upgrade possible on a Mallory Unilite distributor with a MSD6a Box? Or do I need to run the original distributor for my AMC 401. I still have the original distributor from the 401 which is out of a 79 waggy, if need be. The Unilite/MSD6a combo that I'm running was on my 304 before I built and dropped in the 401. I've heard good and bad about the Unilite and I can say that both motors run the same with it (nagging miss).
motiv8ya is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-20-2009, 05:10 AM   #103
Tshark299
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
Tshark,

Some more changes for you CRT took JeepHammer Upgrade Info & Packaged. BUT they and the general HEI Clones have been using hardened gears, gears cut wrong, and distributors that do not fit or fail. Not Good. Please read this link and remove / edit your post above so JeepForum folks do not go there and the jce crap too are removed. Cut the last 2/3 if you do not mind. The ends of posts get read lots and that not the best stuff.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556294
What are you talking about??? Are you even reading the things I'm writing or are you too eager to publicly praise JeepHammer every chance you get? HEI clones? Hardened gears? Miscut gears? What does any of this have to do with TFI, which is what I'm talking about, which is what the core of the TeamRush upgrade is when you get past the discussion on how a black distributor cap will cost you 20 horsepower.

And CRT took JeepHammer's info and packaged it?? Again, I did this exact same ignition upgrade to my Jeep 5 years ago, which is 3 years before JeepHammer was even a member on this forum. And even when I did this back then, there was a WEALTH of information on this upgrade on this forum, on other forums, and on the Google... and the JuiceBox kit had long been available at that point as well. Was JeepHammer posting all this information under a different name back then? Can you help me out with a link to JeepHammer opening the world's eyes to the TFI ignition upgrade beck in 2003, or earlier?

When I did my "TeamRush" ignition upgrade 5 years ago, I had a long list of links and writups to integrating TFI ignition parts as well as the "Stealth HEI" module upgrade on the computer I had at the time. I should dig out that computer and check to see if JeepHammer's name is on any of those pages.... I'm thinking it's not.

And again, I hope I'm not coming off as being critical to JeepHammer himself, because that's not my intention. It's obvious he's put alot of time and effort into researching and compiling this information into a format that's easy for the novice to follow. But to say that he invented this upgrade and that the others have just been taking his information (directing this at you Fjguercio) is not only a gross exaggeration but also a disrespect to those that posted this info all over the internet many many years ago.

I will remove my link though, because you did ask nicely. As for removing the last 2/3rds of my post... are you kidding me? No, sorry, I won't censor myself to make it easier for you to brainwash unfamiliar people into thinking this is new information.
__________________
'87 YJ Laredo - 4.0L, AX-15, NP231, 4.10s: 3.5" BDS, 31" Muds

'95 XJ - Donated drive train to the YJ, Parted out the rest

'51 CJ-3A - Buick 225 V6: Painless Wiring Harness, Warn Overdrive & Hubs, 2" Lift, 31" Muds
Tshark299 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-20-2009, 05:17 AM   #104
sliseno
Registered User
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: florida
Posts: 138
just curious...can i do this on a 99 tj?or something similar?i have some problems with misfires and build up inside my dist. cap. i have the 4.0.
__________________
Roads? Where were going, we don't need...roads!
sliseno is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-20-2009, 07:42 AM   #105
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshark299 View Post
... I did this exact same ignition upgrade to my Jeep 5 years ago, which is 3 years before JeepHammer was even a member on this forum. And even when I did this back then, there was a WEALTH of information on this upgrade on this forum, on other forums, and on the Google... and the JuiceBox kit had long been available at that point as well. Was JeepHammer posting all this information under a different name back then? Can you help me out with a link to JeepHammer opening the world's eyes to the TFI ignition upgrade beck in 2003, or earlier?
I don't think I've ever run into anyone this diametrically opposed to collecting 'Facts' before!

Actually, this isn't new information...
I released it as a 'Write Up' on ORC in '99 and the first clones started showing up in about '01.

The name of my racing team since about '82 is 'TeamRush',
And 'TeamRush' is the user name I was using when I released the Ignition Upgrade...
The guys on ORC started calling it the 'TeamRush' upgrade, and the name stuck...

The 'TFI' name is a misnomer at best, and it's the result of a mis-speak on my part... Once in print and plagiarized on a dozen other sites, it takes on a life of it's own!
TFI is Thick Film Integrated, a type of module Ford used when it retired the DuraSpark module.
(As in Module 'Integrated' With Distributor)

It bolted on the side of the distributor, and it was a TOTAL FAILURE. Failures were guaranteed, and there were several class action law suits over that distributor/module
combination....

One good thing to come out of it,
The E-core coil Ford used. In the beginning, it was though that the E-core used with the DuraSpark module was causing the problem, so Ford use a Super high quality E-core coil with the TFI distributor, so it gives us a 10 to 15 years of PREMIUM E-CORE COILS IN THE SALVAGE YARDS!

I only use PROVEN parts in my upgrades, and I have nothing to do with the TFI distributor or module,

AND,
As I've tried to point out several times that saying 'TFI' around someone that knows what they are talking about makes you look.... 'Backwards'....
People still insist on calling the 'Large Cap' or 'TeamRush' upgrade 'TFI'.

Shortly after I released and proved (Peer Reviewed, senior BBS members) the ignition upgrade at a couple of Off Road outings...,
The 'Juice Box' guys released a version on E-bay that was, and as far as I know, still is cheap Import parts that DO NOT work as I intended this stuff to go...

I've raced AMC vehicles for years,
And to old AMC guys, this wasn't a big deal, the upgraded cap & rotor.
But in '99, it was NEW to the Jeeping community, and I started releasing information and part numbers, wiring diagrams, ect. because at that time,
NO ONE seemed to know the large Ford cap would fit on the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor, or the advantages of using the larger/taller Ford style cap...

Everyone was being herded like livestock to the Jacobs Omni Pak ignition, which was a total piece of crap.
$500 for nothing special, horrible customer service, and a failure rate that would make honest dealers blush...

Jacobs went under and sold out... Jacobs is now owned by a 'Conglomerate', and believe this or not, it's a division of Prestolite now!
Jacobs is now using a copy of AutoTronic Controls MSD ignitions now, just like Mallory and most others.

Anyway, if you do some research, you will find that a lot of the sites that have had this upgrade posted will credit it to 'TeamRush' which was my user name when I released it.

*IF*...
You do some research, you will find that I'm a fairly capable Ignition engineer, along with a capable electronic circuit designer.

This post will take you back to 2000 on ORC discussing the 'TeamRush' upgrade, since this is where I released the Upgrade, and I'm the user 'TeamRush',
Well... Shouldn't be hard to put 2 and 2 together...
http://forums.off-road.com/jeep-shor...n-upgrade.html

This is a link to IFSJA or International Full Size Jeep Association ...
And you will find a Plagiarized version of my orignal write-ups,
But at least in the first line of the write-up, the guy carrying it off gives 'TeamRush' credit.
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/electrical...onupgrade.html
And I think the date on that article posting goes back to 2000 also...
Too bad much of the article was edited or re-written and doesn't make much sense (much like the guys on IFSJA!)

SO!
If you want to ask questions about why this works, or what will or won't work, feel free,
But
PLEASE have some facts in hand before you start contradicting people and making a fuss...

We all pretty much get along here, and I for one would like to keep it that way...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.