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Unread 02-06-2014, 03:27 PM   #646
4milechuck
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1983 CJ8 
 
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Giving Up, Beat Up By Technology

Thanks for the latest information. I did find another thread regarding your guidance in the testing of the mag trigger circuit. Before I did that, as my distributor was under warranty, I took it back & obtained a new (rebuilt) one. Installed it & nothing changed. Not one spark! As I ordered the extra extension (purple/green wires), I substituted that for the other one & it made no difference. I used the short purple/green wire piece MSD supplies (in their installation kit) to eliminate the MSD Motorcraft adapter piece & no difference.

I could readily accept this all if the set up had not worked quite smoothly for 5 or 6 days. Just at a complete loss. I ask MSD in an e-mail regarding a "ever so slight" arc (that badly over describes it) at the moment I connect the positive battery cable. Also the very quiet hum for a second or two that the MSD unit makes upon the battery being connected. No light or anything, just as I described it. I did not get a reply from them as I have in the past when I have inquired.

Thank you JH & I will be contacting MSD to ship the unit back. I'll be hooking up my coil again & getting things running in the mean time.

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Unread 06-19-2014, 02:52 PM   #647
skalomenos
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Adapter will not fit - Help

I have a 1981 CJ-7 with the I-6 258 and I am attempting to complete the team rush upgrade. I purchased the F960 adapter from Autozone. Problem is, the adapter willnot fit the distributor on the jeep with the cap removed. It seems that it is slightly too big and it does not seem to matter which way I have it situated. I can force the screws to fit the threaded holes, however that makes the adapter become somewhat oblong. In addition, there are two additional screw heads that the adapter screws down on top of. Is this normal? Please help!!
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Unread 06-19-2014, 10:50 PM   #648
BagusJeep
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I fitted an F960 and it went straight on. There is the issue with the locating tab you should be adding, I had too little time and a bad back and it was getting dark a cold beer waiting so......

There are no other screws on the mating surface, this is a pic of the top of Bagusjeep dizzie. You can see the holes at 3 and 9 o'clock the cap adapter screws on to, that previously the old cap was fastened to.

Perhaps if you posted a pic?
img00550-20120804-1123.jpg  
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Unread 09-04-2014, 10:27 PM   #649
Kuntryboy816
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Wow wow WOW! I just finished the TR upgrade a little while ago and I can't believe the difference! The throttle response is so much better and smoother. I can actually accelerate w/o any bogging/hesitation. I can throttle up to pass and it doesn't act like it's going to stall or bog down. Now I won't have to wait for a 50 yard gap in traffic to open up, lol! I was a bit concerned at first when I went to install the dist cap and the #1 terminal wasn't in line w/ the rotor. Then I remembered I have already done the Nutter Bypass and the timing's advanced to 8* BTDC. Even so I checked the timing again and it's still holding where it was set 2 years ago. I still need to adjust the fuel/air mix a little and install some new plugs but I gotta say that I'm more than pleased w/ the results. I can't believe I completely forgot about this when I Nuttered the Jeep. I'll have to remember to look into upgrading the ign module later o
Big thanks to Jeephammer for the write up!! Thank ya kindly sir!!
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Unread 09-05-2014, 06:22 AM   #650
Mike Romain
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Well.... It really does nothing for performance except give you all new parts.... If you had an old metal post (not brass) distributor, it certainly helps with internal cross fire and new wires can do wonders for others, but.... I have always just used the brass post distributor cap proper copper core plugs, an accel supercoil and quality wires and mine runs really well. 4400 rpm top out, 52 mph in 2nd, 3rd pulls fast to 75 mph, 4th buries the speedo and I have no urge to find out how fast 5th will go.
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 09-05-2014, 12:43 PM   #651
JeepHammer
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Kuntryboy816, Mike is right...
What you are seeing in 'Performance Gains' is just having the ignition work correctly for a change.
We get so used to something that declines SLOWLY we don't realize what we are losing until someone does what you did...

Mike is also correct about WHY it works so well...
The old cap liked to cross fire a BUNCH, the new, wider cap stopped that cross fire.
The old cap liked to jump to 'Ground' inside the distributor, the cap/rotor stops that from happening.
The old cap terminals were 'Socket' type that held moisture, corroded like crazy, and unless you kept up on the plug wires constantly, they would back out.
The new cap has 'Spark Plug' type snap terminals that don't collect moisture/corrosion, don't back off and keep constant connection.

With a good set of plug wires, your plugs are now actually GETTING most of the spark energy produced at the coil, so the plugs are firing the fuel mixture correctly for a change... Probably the first time since the vehicle was new...

The new cap, rotor, plug wires will help keep the ignition working for some time to come.
Brass terminals outlive aluminum terminals about 10 to 1, and a top quality set of plug wires that are properly maintained will last 10+ years in my personal experience...

Occasional plug changes/gaping, some dielectric grease in the boots, some 'Never-Seize' on the plug threads and an occasional rotor in the distributor will probably keep your ignition humming along pleasantly for years to come,

And now that you have wires for a spark path, and spark control inside the cap, you stand the chance for performance gains by tuning your fuel/ignition for the new ability you have to get that fuel burning in the cylinder.
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Unread 09-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #652
Kuntryboy816
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True... I've owned the Jeep for almost 5 years now and this ignition correction all seems like a new Jeep to me. Since I've become the owner, it just seems like I was driving exactly what I purchased... an "old" Jeep. After being so used to it's quirks and all the things I had expected from an older vehicle, I'm just happily surprised that it can be much better than that expectation I had from the get-go.

I was in a "Rush" last night so I didn't bother with the grease/sealants yet. As I still need to change out my plugs, I'll do all that when I get off work today. I did have to take off about 1/4" of rubber off of the #3 wire boot on the plug side. It was too long and kept popping the connector off of the plug. Problem solved. Luckily they had the Ford style wires so the coil wire fit just fine w/o the need for the "power tower." I also am going to pick up a new coil cap as mine's pretty beat and the wires move too much for my comfort. Tried to reseat the terminals but no bueno.

One conern I had was that the cap adapter and the cap and rotor were all a light gray color. Does this mean they still have some carbon element to them or have manufacturers moved past the carbon days?
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Unread 09-05-2014, 03:06 PM   #653
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuntryboy816 View Post
True... I've owned the Jeep for almost 5 years now and this ignition correction all seems like a new Jeep to me. Since I've become the owner, it just seems like I was driving exactly what I purchased... an "old" Jeep. After being so used to it's quirks and all the things I had expected from an older vehicle, I'm just happily surprised that it can be much better than that expectation I had from the get-go.

I was in a "Rush" last night so I didn't bother with the grease/sealants yet. As I still need to change out my plugs, I'll do all that when I get off work today. I did have to take off about 1/4" of rubber off of the #3 wire boot on the plug side. It was too long and kept popping the connector off of the plug. Problem solved. Luckily they had the Ford style wires so the coil wire fit just fine w/o the need for the "power tower." I also am going to pick up a new coil cap as mine's pretty beat and the wires move too much for my comfort. Tried to reseat the terminals but no bueno.

One conern I had was that the cap adapter and the cap and rotor were all a light gray color. Does this mean they still have some carbon element to them or have manufacturers moved past the carbon days?
Don't cut the boots off the plug wires unless there is simply no other way to get the plug wire on the plug.
That boot is the only thing between corrosion and your electrical connections/wire.

Put a little gob of dielectric grease on the SPARK PLUG TERMINAL to keep the connection from corroding,
And a VERY TINY amount on the spark plug insulator itself so when you TWIST the boot (Don't twist the wire!) onto the plug the grease will coat the terminal in a big way, but only allow for a slightly better seal at the boot.

If you have a good enough quality set of wires, the silicone based boots will almost feel 'Greasy' when you get them, and you don't need any grease in the boot, just the terminal.

Light gray is fine, no carbon there.
Light gray is better for seeing the 'Cobweb' tracks inside the cap when cross fires happen, and it's better for seeing the carbon track the cross fires lay down when they happen.

If you see a 'Cobweb' track inside the cap, the cap is shot- Just plain DONE.
You will notice two things right away,
One is there will be RIDGES inside the cap between plug terminals and center terminal.

These are for keeping cross fires from having a direct line to run across.
Cross fires happen when stray ions (Static electricity) line up to make a path for the high voltage discharge to go somewhere it shouldn't.

If you see a cross fire track, the cap is shot. There is a carbon track burned into the cap you can't remove and it will continue to allow even easier cross firing... Kind of like beating a path through brier thicket, once there is a path, people will take it every time!

The other thing you will notice is the rotor with it's big flat tail...
That's there to stir up the ionized air inline with the cap terminals.
The air becomes ionized any time there is an air gap in the electrical path, like from rotor to plug terminals.

An ionized path is a REQUIREMENT for a cross fire, so with all the extra ions clinging to everything, a path is going to happen...
*IF* you don't do something to break it.
That's the idea of the ridges and the stirring effect of the rotor, to keep things mixed up and keep down cross fires.

A VENTED cap will let some of the ionization out, V-8 caps have vents from the factory, while the I-6 caps sometimes don't have vents...
You just have to work with that.

Glad to see someone read/retained the information about black caps!
It's a big deal that most people just ignore.

----------

'OLD JEEPS' are around because someone thought they were 'Worn Out' and weren't worth driving anymore, so you can still find them for a reasonable price.

If the camshaft still has 'Lumps' on it, and the cylinders still make compression,
The 'Issues' are usually with ignition or fuel supply.

When I buy 'Junk' Jeeps, the first thing I do is see if they are getting fuel, Then see if they have ignition components that have turned to crap...

The CJ-5 I drive the most was 'Blowed Up' when I bought it...
The guy wouldn't have it any other way.

I couldn't get it started, and I never started it when I got it home...
I tore the distributor out, replaced the breaker points with electronic trigger and electronic module, hit the key and it fired right up.

The 'Knocking' was an exhaust leak, evident by the large exhaust black spot on the fire wall.
In 24 hours I was ripping past the guy's place that sold it to me in a V-8 CJ-5 that I purchased for $350...

I still haven't fixed the exhaust leak, just rapped tin around the header tube and used a hose clamp to keep it from cooking the wiring harness on the fire wall, and it runs pretty good after a reasonable ignition & carb clean out/rebuild...

The guy was PISSED when he asked about it and found out what was wrong!
Too late, Someone that wants to do a little research and repair/maintenance owns it now and is having fun with it!
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Unread 09-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #654
Tollster
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There is an old adage that goes:

"Nothing talks like cubic inches, everything else only optimizes whats already there"

Rings true everytime.
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Unread 09-16-2014, 07:08 PM   #655
stephens_cj5
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I found all the parts I needed for the Rush upgrade based on the above post. I do have a question and one I should have asked before buying the parts. Will this ignition set-up work well and be an improvement with the Howell TBI set-up?
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Unread 09-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #656
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephens_cj5 View Post
I found all the parts I needed for the Rush upgrade based on the above post. I do have a question and one I should have asked before buying the parts. Will this ignition set-up work well and be an improvement with the Howell TBI set-up?
No improvement over OEM. It is just replacing your old worn out parts with new ones so you might see an improvement from that. The larger cap just won't arc at speed like the cheap white metal post small caps can. I have been using high quality stock caps with brass terminals and mine will top out at 4400 rpm without a miss. I get close to 10 years out of a cap and rotor on my daily driver.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 09-16-2014, 09:35 PM   #657
JeepHammer
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Cap, rotor, plug wire upgrade will help any Jeep.
Basic electrical principals come into play here and the taller rotor wider cap with brass terminals make for better electrical path.
Add some high quality plug wires, properly installed will show considerable improvement over stock.

You might not notice a huge improvement if your stock hardware is of reasonable quality,
But over time the upgraded gear will last longer and perform better.

If your factory stuff is old, and there is some 30 year old hardware out there,
You will notice immediate gains.
Low quality replacements are as bad or worse than 30 year old gear.
I've tried/tested a bunch of the 'Off The Shelf' caps/wires and the quality was pitiful.
They wound up in the garbage.

I've been running MSD wires and caps on V8 engines for over 10 years with them still doing the job with no issues.
They are top quality.

When I tell people to get the 'Cut To Fit' wires and make their own wires that actually fit that's what I mean.
You are better off paying for a V8 set of wires and making 6 that fit and work correctly for 10 years or more is a hell of a deal over parts store wires that don't fit and were made in china and don't work correctly out of the box or quit working correctly after a couple of months.

Wires are 1/6 or 1/8 of your power (depending on 6 or 8 cylinders)
Making sure your cylinders are firing CORRECTLY will help any vehicle,
And cheap wires often degrade quickly killing the spark energy before the plug.
The plug is firing, but its not firing CORRECTLY, so the power and fuel economy creep down so slowly you don't notice right away.

It's simple, you get what you pay for...
But not all higher priced wires are top quality.
The MSD 'Street Fire' wires aren't what I'd recommend,
But the full size, 'Cut To Fit' wires are top quality for street vehicles.
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Unread 09-17-2014, 12:25 AM   #658
258
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Team Rush Ignition Box / Coil?

Guys,

Gathering all parts and almost there for the Team Rush upgrade. I know JH states to get the MSD 6200 along with the MSD 8205 coil. My question is, can I used the MSD 6201 DIGITAL ignition box with that same MSD 8205 coil?

I read that MSD no longer supports the 6200 for future repairs if needed.

Also, can I get the REV LIMITER or go without, and if it has it . . . can I still run that MSD 6201 Ign. box?

Thanks in advance
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Unread 09-17-2014, 03:04 AM   #659
BagusJeep
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I finally got hold of an MSD6A to complement my Teamrushed 258s, along with the adapter to plug straight into the sensor connector.

My choice now is which ignition coil to use with it. I have the following selection from my fleet of buckets:

1. An original 1980 canister coil with the horseshoe connector (complemented the original Duraspark module and dizzie cap etc on Gladys)
2. A Mallory PROMASTER COIL-STREET/STRIP - part # 28720. It came free with Bagusjeep.
3. A generic e-core coil I picked up, supposed to be for a GM.


The MSD site is not particularly useful as it suggests that the product works with ALL coils. Yeah..... I want it to work with the BEST coil.

Any ideas?
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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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Unread 09-17-2014, 11:02 AM   #660
steff
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I guess MSD Coil blaster 2 - MSD8205 it's a good choice
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