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Unread 12-21-2013, 10:25 PM   #601
SouthernGypsy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
When I converted Grammys CJ to a 15 gal Polly tank from MTS I didn't have a LCV.

When filling up the tank I'd get gas dripping out of the evap canister. Found a clapped out CJ at the junkyard and couldn't believe it was still there. ( though hidden up in the rear wheel tub you had to want it to remove it)

Yea they are hard to find. When I first had the idea I thought it would serve the purpose but wanted to run it past my friend who's an engineer first. After my initial post he actually did some test with some filters he had in his garage and says the fuel filter turned up on end works great, even in the presence of a mild vacuum from a vacuum pump he had that he said is probably producing more vacuum than the canister ever would.

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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:44 AM   #602
Matt1981CJ7
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I'm not sure what your engineer friend considers "mild vacuum".

When the canister gets a purge signal, it has full manifold vacuum sucking the vapors from the canister.

When he tests the fuel filter idea, he should be using around 20" Hg of pressure, thru the appropriate sized hose.

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Unread 12-22-2013, 11:37 AM   #603
SouthernGypsy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
I'm not sure what your engineer friend considers "mild vacuum".

When the canister gets a purge signal, it has full manifold vacuum sucking the vapors from the canister.

When he tests the fuel filter idea, he should be using around 20" Hg of pressure, thru the appropriate sized hose.

Matt

Exactly. To him even the highest vacuum any vehicle creates even direct at the manifold is very mild compared with the kind of systems he normally works with. He said he had to dial his test pump down from 160Hg to 25Hg to try his test. Apparently whatever he normally works with runs in the 150Hg-170Hg range with 160Hg being the target setting. He looked up online to see what to set his pump to so he could simulate a vehicles vacuum levels and I guess he found 25Hg listed somewhere so used that as his target for the fuel filter test.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:00 PM   #604
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He was probably using mmhg and had to convert to inhg
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Unread 12-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGypsy

Exactly. To him even the highest vacuum any vehicle creates even direct at the manifold is very mild compared with the kind of systems he normally works with. He said he had to dial his test pump down from 160Hg to 25Hg to try his test. Apparently whatever he normally works with runs in the 150Hg-170Hg range with 160Hg being the target setting. He looked up online to see what to set his pump to so he could simulate a vehicles vacuum levels and I guess he found 25Hg listed somewhere so used that as his target for the fuel filter test.
As I mentioned on the check valve thread, I don't think a fuel filter will function as a LCV.

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Unread 12-24-2013, 08:25 AM   #606
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Remaining Unused Distributor Wires

I expect this is a relative easily answered question but I still need to ask it as I have not found a comment answer previously. Now that the MSD 6A is installed (my previous posted equipment #589) & wired up in accordance with the instructions & guidance found here, I have one last question. I'm not using previous factory equipment distributor wires. Do I just dead end these & tape them up?

As others have said & I wish to add my "THANKS BUNCHES" to all who have assisted, especially JH with the excellent drawings.

**After re-reading numerous post here I found out a couple important things. First, I should attach the "Small Red" MSD wire to the "old" red coil wire. The OE coil on my CJ8 looked like the "E" coil, or coils shown on page 12 MSD instruction manual. Trouble I have is my wire colors shown there do not match (have no pink wires). Chilton manual schematic has wires as red (1) & dark brown (1). I have a 1 small "red" wire, 1 large "red" wire & 1 small "black" wire in my rig. I do not want to experiment with the MSD in connecting & trying wires. Is there a method of "testing" without damaging the MSD?
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Unread 12-24-2013, 06:27 PM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
As I mentioned on the check valve thread, I don't think a fuel filter will function as a LCV.

Matt

So far it's actually working great, even better than expected in fact

I described his bench testing and now my own on-vehicle testing on both of our Jeeps in more detail in the other thread and just added pictures.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 06:31 PM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGypsy
So far it's actually working great, even better than expected in fact I described his bench testing and now my own on-vehicle testing on both of our Jeeps in more detail in the other thread and just added pictures.

You will know for sure if you go 4 months of filling up the gas tank and not have gas dripping out of your evap canister. Which is what will happen if it doesn't work.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 06:42 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDinTX View Post


Im anxious to see how much of a difference the new dizzy makes! I guess i need to check mine and see if i should replace mine as well!


Now that I have everything finished... Picked up my new coil on the way back from lunch with friends this afternoon which was the final piece I lacked and I just finished mounting it. Went out for a quick drive, only 5 miles out and back but it's on our road which is windy and hilly and I can't honestly say that I feel an incredible difference in normal driving so far. The acceleration response/curve might be a little smoother but I can't tell that it's any more powerful. But then his particular Jeep already ran great to begin with and had just had a complete tune-up only about two months before we got it. I should know more once I have more time to play with it.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 06:44 PM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
You will know for sure if you go 4 months of filling up the gas tank and not have gas dripping out of your evap canister. Which is what will happen if it doesn't work.
Hahaha, it wont take me 4 months at the amount of miles that I put on, We've only had these Jeeps since early November and already have put 5300 miles on the Limited and 1500 miles on the Laredo and I always fill the tank completely. Though in my testing yesterday I over-filled it to the point it was running back out the fill neck when I snapped the cap on.
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Unread 01-05-2014, 01:39 PM   #611
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Still Need A Bit of Guidance

I remain a less than experienced poster, so hope all will consider that when looking over my question. MSD6 all wires installed "except" small red wire. From this thread I understand it is supposed to go to the old red coil wire. Original ignition was '83 151 GM with separate HEI coil on fender. That coil went with the engine so I don't have it. There was no "connector" to the coil, just 4 wires that plugged onto the connectors separately. One green, One brown, One small red & One large red. I now have a round canister coil to go with the TR Ford distributor. That's what I have. Is there a method for me to use to determine which of my old coil "red" wires to connect to the MSD small red wire? I have a fear I will damage the MSD by connecting the wrong one. Google: GM J8134003 & that is what the old coil looked like. I do not know how to post a photo or would do that. Still trying to understand technology.
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Unread 01-05-2014, 07:45 PM   #612
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All you really need is a wire thats hot in both start and run positions of the key switch.
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Unread 01-07-2014, 11:56 PM   #613
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I finished this upgrade two weeks ago except for the ground wires, I have read through it over and over and still have not found a good, plain English explanation of where to connect these extra ground wires to the ignition module, coil, distributor, or wherever they are supposed to go. Maybe I am just missing it but that can be the problem of 20 page long threads, sometimes it makes finding one bit of information very difficult to locate and the search function proved useless. Even seen where some other people (such as Brian181 back in post #371) have asked the same question and never got a response. What wires to we connect these additional ground wires to?

Is there a diagram somewhere of this?

I have seen something about it being at the ignition module, something about it being the coil, something about it being at the distributor, something about it being an extra wire added from the battery to the head... Which is it? or is it all of them? The only one I have found for sure is battery to head and head to black wire on the ignition module, but is that everything? The reason I ask is somewhere it also sounded like you was supposed to add additional ground wires to the coil or the distributor one or the other (or both?).

Which color wires? Like at the ignition module, is it indeed the black wire on the harness coming out of the ignition module that gets the extra ground wire to the head? I want to make 100% sure before I do this, connect it wrong and you can cook a coil or worse.

Same question for the coil and/or distributor, are either of them supposed to have a ground wire added to the head? If so which one and which color wire would this additional ground wire be connected to?
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Unread 01-08-2014, 05:15 AM   #614
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PLAN ENGLISH VERSION WOULD BE...

FACTORY MODULE, the 'BLACK' wire going to the module.
'Splice' in a 'Ground' from battery or primary 'Ground' to the HARNESS 'BLACK' WIRE.
This will 'Ground' coil and module without relying on the distributor/engine block to 'Ground' the ignition.

The MODULE AND THE COIL 'GROUND' THROUGH THE DISTRIBUTOR ON THE FACTORY SYSTEM.
This connection degrades with age.
The distributor housing corrodes, the distributor housing/block gets coated with baked on oil residue that IS NOT ELECTRICALLY CONDUCTIVE, and the distributor housing loses, or REDUCES, it's connection with 'Ground'.
Then you add in the not so connected 'Ground' cable to the block, and you have issues with spark energy output and module/coil problems.

By splicing in and DIRECTLY supplying a DEDICATED GROUND to the primary side of the ignition,
The primary side of the ignition will operate at MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY.
(This cold weather should find some issues with things like this... From the threads I'm reading, some people haven't listened to us talk about 'Grounds'...)

------------

MSD module, The heavy 'Black' wire directly to battery or primary 'Ground'.

With the exception of spark plugs to heads, heads to 'Ground' there aren't any other 'Grounds' needed with MSD module units.

-------------

HEI MODULE, The MOUNTING SCREW closest to the 'B' terminal will have a metal tab for the screw to rest against, this is the 'Ground' for the module and coil.

Same deal, Wire from battery or primary 'Ground' to module mounting screw will supply direct 'Ground' to the module and the ignition coil.

--------------

The only other 'Ground' your ignition 'Sees' is the 'Ground' at the spark plugs.
The head(s) should have a solid ELECTRICAL 'GROUND' and NOT rely on head bolts to do the job correctly.
A little copper (Gold) based 'Never-Seize' on the plug threads will help with getting the spark plugs connected to the heads, and a 'Ground' wire to the heads will make sure they are 'Grounded'.

---------------

Since the COIL 'Grounds' though the module in all cases, the MODULE needs to have a clean GROUND PATH back to the battery for optimum operation efficiency.
This takes care of the PRIMARY side of the ignition.

The SECONDARY side of the ignition (High Voltage) is 'Grounded' through the heads, and needs to be treated well or the plugs simply won't fire efficiently.

There isn't much to it, but people still ignore it...
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Unread 01-08-2014, 05:25 AM   #615
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As for the rest of your 'Grounds',

GRILL SHELL, where all your front lights connect looking for 'Ground',

ALTERNATOR CASE, since the alternator can't crap it's own 'Ground Path' back to the battery, and things like rusted bolts, brackets, paint, ect. impede 'Ground Path' back to the battery,
You will find your alternator will charge much better with a 'Ground' wire attached directly to it.

STARTER, since the largest load the vehicle will see (Other than a winch) will be the starter, the 'Ground Cable' from the battery *SHOULD* be attached to a starter bolt so the starter gets the best possible 'Ground Path' back to the battery.

DASH has lots of electrical gadgets, like wipers, gauges, lights, ect. so the DASH should get a dedicated 'Ground'...

REAR TAIL LIGHTS/FUEL SENDER should also be 'Grounded' with a dedicated 'Ground' wire.
The frame/body are LOUSY 'Grounds', so don't torture the electrical current, add a 'Ground' so the electrical components don't have to fight rust, paint, corrosion, ect. to work...
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