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Unread 03-12-2009, 04:30 PM   #151
jeepdude1987
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Thanks Jeephammer. I know you don't give opinions per-say, and didn't mean to offend you. I know what you say is based on information and experience. You did however say that you recommend the new plugs you are using with only empirical evidence. That could be seen as an opinion due to the fact it is based somewhat on conjecture. Not to say that you shoot crap all over the place with unsubstantiated statements like some people do on internet forums. In fact, from what I have seen, you spell things out again and again for people cause either they didn't take time to read all the info, they didn't understand what was said the way it was said, or they got a ***** shooter's opinion and have just been misled.

Not trying to knock you at all, and if anyone looks at my post I clearly didn't understand some of the things I had read or they didn't stick in my head like I should.

I hope you keep informing the un/mis-informed even though some of us fail to get it the first time.

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[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
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Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 03-12-2009, 06:09 PM   #152
JeepHammer
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No offense taken...

My 'Opinions' are just that... And usually clearly labeled as such...
In my opinion, skinny women are all cranky... They are hungry all time!

In my opinion, anyone that buys 'Sonic' insect repellers or herbal 'Male Enhancement' should just send the money to me instead!
At least I'll get something for it when I spend it at the strip joint or casino!

-----------------------

As for spark plug recommendations,
That's from Dyno Room & racing testing.

Autolite 'Copper' regular resistor spark plugs work the best for us in both the dyno room and in the race cars.
They also had the best ratio of good plug compaired to 'Broken' or Defective plugs out of the box.

Right behind them was 'Denso' brand.
As in 'Nippon-Denso' spark plugs.
They worked nearly as well in testing, and had a very good rate of viable plugs out of the box.
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Unread 03-12-2009, 09:14 PM   #153
243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
anyone that buys 'Sonic' insect repellers or herbal 'Male Enhancement' should just send the money to me instead!
So how did you conclude that "non-herbal male enhancement" products don't work?
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Unread 03-12-2009, 11:24 PM   #154
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
So how did you conclude that "non-herbal male enhancement" products don't work?
Non-Herbal male enhancements don't work... because there aren't any...
If it's 'Non-Herbal', then it has to go through FDA testing, and the jig is up!
Anyone that stayed awake during basic earth science should be able to bust that one!

Only HERBAL products can go to market without submitting to FDA testing...
And only products that haven't got FDA approval can make utterly stupid claims like they make your 'Johnson' bigger...

And since all legitimate scientific studies and the FDA & Consumer Products Safety Commission all say it's a scam, I'm liable to believe them over some silly azzed commercial on the idiot box...

AND,
Because there is only two ways to make a male 'Larger'...
One... Is surgery, cut the tendons that hold back 1" to 3" of INTERNAL penis.
OR,
Two... Change your genetic code.

Genetics or surgery... The only two ways...
-----------------------------

I'm sure that ground up rag weed and rat crap won't change your genetic code in such a specific way that you only grow the penis in length...

Implants can make you 'Thicker', but you will have a semi-permanent erection, and from what I've read, there is a VERY high risk of nerve damage over time that might lever you completely impotent....

It's like those 'Penis Enlarger' creams...
Wouldn't your hands grow larger too?
Or did common sense escape EVERYONE!...................
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Unread 03-24-2009, 01:46 PM   #155
Drsafety
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I cannot locate the blue streak premium brass distributor and cap KCR 202x. Any help? I have checked NAPA and Advanced Auto. Do they still make them? Any online buying options?
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Unread 03-24-2009, 07:28 PM   #156
namredla
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JeepHammer,

In your opinion, what would be the best carb to install on a 258 to compliment the nutter, Team Rush, MSD ignition module upgrades?
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Unread 03-28-2009, 10:28 AM   #157
namredla
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OK, one more. Maybe a little bit more on topic than my last post (although I would like to know your opinion on the carb situation). The MSD 6A ignition module shows two different methods for wiring. In my case I will have the stock distributor with the auto zone cap/extension/rotor upgrade that you recommend in the first post of this thread (with brass terminals), a blaster 2F coil, and of course an MSD 6A ignition module (as well as the adapters that you show). One method is using the magnetic trigger connection with the white wire taped off. The second method is using the white wire and no magnetic trigger. You suggest the magnetic trigger method and I just wondered why. You usually don't make a recommendation without having it based on cold hard fact.

Also, I picked up the MSD universal (blue) spark plug wires with both the HEI and socket type ends so that I can carve out a set of plugs that exactly fits my application (258 with above mentioned upgrades). I notice that the wires all have the straight boots for the plug end which I think will work, it is just different from the stock wires. And since this is my first venture into the ignition modification world, I though I would show my general lack of knowledge by asking if this had a connection that would fit directly onto the Blaster 2F (without the power tower). The bag it came with is FULL of different connectors and boots so I assume that one of them would be able to get the job done. Another dumb question - the plug wire set is for an 8 cylinder and I am using it on my 258, I don't think this matters either does it?

Thanks
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Unread 03-28-2009, 10:43 AM   #158
TBrock
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great comprehensive write up.
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Unread 03-28-2009, 11:36 AM   #159
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drsafety View Post
I cannot locate the blue streak premium brass distributor and cap KCR 202x. Any help? I have checked NAPA and Advanced Auto. Do they still make them? Any online buying options?
Any brass terminal distributor cap from an '82 Ford F-150 Pick Up with 300 CID I-6 engine will work.

I give part numbers for both Advance Auto and Auto Zone on the first page... Besides the 'Standard Motor Products' brand 'Blue Streak' Cap...
------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by namredla View Post
JeepHammer,

In your opinion, what would be the best carb to install on a 258 to compliment the nutter, Team Rush, MSD ignition module upgrades?
That's a SUBJECTIVE not an OBJECTIVE question...

The 'Best' carb for you might not be the 'Best' carb for me...
If you are familiar with Carter carbs, then a Carter might be 'Best' for you.

Personally, I don't think anything beats a Holley for parts availability and tuneability, and of course the great number of books written on tuning the Holley.
The sheer volume of information on tuning a Holley is staggering!
-------------------------

Since you have a 258 engine, we'll do the math,

258 CID, 4 stroke engine.
That's 129 Cubic Inches per Revloution of the Crankshaft at 100% Volumetric Efficiency...

Since your engine is only going to be about 85% VE,
129 X .85 VE = 109.65 Actual CID of Air per Revolution.

Say your RPM Limit is 4,000 RPM,
109.65 CID X 4,000 RPM = 438,699 CID in one minute at 4,000 RPM.

OR, 1 Cubic Foot = 1728,
438,699 CID ÷ 1728 (Cu.Ft.) = 253.819 Cubic Feet Per Minute or CFM...

Add about 50 CFM for times when you are above the 4,000 RPM rev limit,
254 + 50 = 304 CFM or Cubic Feet per Minute...

SO,
304 CFM MINIMUM carb, up to about a 400 CFM carb would be a good choice.

Personally, I wouldn't go to a 400 CFM, since the larger the carb, the LESS RESPONSIVE it will be (also less fuel efficient).
I would stay find one between 304 CFM and 400 CFM to keep my throttle response and driveability, and keep my fuel mileage.

Since the smallest 'Truck Street Avenger' is a 470, and that is WAY too big for a 258 I-6 engine...

Consider this carb,
http://www.holley.com/0-7448.asp

It's a 350 CID two barrel, and it will take some preparation for severe off road use, but it's worth considering...
(off road needle and seat, power valve tailored to your vehicle, raising the bowl vent, maybe a different float bowl and float arrangment...)
All this depends on how hard you intend to 'Wheel' your vehicle!
------------------------------------

You 'CAN' use a smaller 4 barrel carb with a vacuum secondary*, like a 470 CFM 'Truck Avenger', but you are looking at a lot of expense, and having a lot of extra parts and things that can go wrong...
I usually don't recommend a 4 barrel for an I-6 application unless people are racing or trying to squeeze every last MPG out of the vehicle... and that is their ONLY motivation...

*A vacuum secondary won't open unless there is enough demand...
*When it's properly adjusted*, Most ARE NOT and waste fuel, and decrease engine driveability on top of wasting fuel!
----------------------------------------

Factory Motorcraft carbs work pretty good off road, but they are larger than you might want...
If you have a tight budget, a salvage yard Holley 2 barrel or Motorcraft carb might be a good choice until the budget gives you some breathing room!
----------------------------------------

Some people think 'Weber' is a good carb, but it's a clone of a clone, and it's a REAL PAIN to tune and work on, not to mention expensive to work on...

Some people think Carter 2 barrel carbs are good off road.
(Edelbrock is a Carter Clone made by Weber... A clone of a clone, and they are a pain in the butt!)

I've never had any real luck with Carter carbs, 2 or 4 barrel, and they are expensive to work on/tune since the parts aren't growing on trees like Holley parts are...
--------------------------------

You will have to decide what you are comfortable with for a brand of carb, but the CFM information above will serve you well for sizing information...

------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by namredla View Post
OK, one more. Maybe a little bit more on topic than my last post (although I would like to know your opinion on the carb situation). The MSD 6A ignition module shows two different methods for wiring.

In my case I will have the stock distributor with the auto zone cap/extension/rotor upgrade that you recommend in the first post of this thread (with brass terminals), a blaster 2F coil, and of course an MSD 6A ignition module (as well as the adapters that you show).

One method is using the magnetic trigger connection with the white wire taped off. The second method is using the white wire and no magnetic trigger. You suggest the magnetic trigger method and I just wondered why. You usually don't make a recommendation without having it based on cold hard fact.
Correct. It's just 'Cold, Hard Facts...'

It's the breaker points you use with the 'White' wire trigger.
Breaker points are a Mechanical Device, meaning ANY WEAR,
Wear in the distributor shaft,
Wear in the distributor bushings,
Wear in the Trigger Lobes on the advance head,
Wear on the points arm contactor,
Wear on the breaker points,
Wear on the advance plate that points are mounted to,
ECT,
Will all creep into the trigger times for the CDI module if you use breaker points distributor...

If you use a MAGNETIC PICKUP TRIGGER,
There is an air gap between the Reluctor mounted on the shaft,
And the Trigger on the vacuum advance plate...
So none of the distributor wear problems that effect breaker points directly creeps into the Out-Put signal from the Magnetic Trigger...

Timing chain slop, gear wear and advance plate bushing wear will still effect the CDI module somewhat,
But since the Magnetic Trigger circuit is designed for an IMPULSE TRIGGER, and not a MECHANICAL POINTS OPENING TIME,
The effects are GREATLY MINIMIZED!

SO!
You can get away with a SERIOUSLY WORN distributor with the magnetic trigger and still not feel any detrimental effects,
Where if you used breaker points trigger, the module would be firing (and misfiring!) all over the place!

For most of us, it's a no cost deal, but even if you have breaker points, it's only between $15 and $50 upgrade to the later 'Stock' type Jeep/Motorcraft Reman distributor, and it's well worth that for the problems you instantly elminate!
----------------------------------------

Quote:
Also, I picked up the MSD universal (blue) spark plug wires with both the HEI and socket type ends so that I can carve out a set of plugs {WIRES?} that exactly fits my application (258 with above mentioned upgrades).

I notice that the wires all have the straight boots for the plug end which I think will work, it is just different from the stock wires.
Take a GOOD LOOK at the long boots on those plug ends...
You can BEND them up to 90 Degrees!
You don't have 'Straight' boots, you have a set of boots for 'Straight', you have a set of boots for 45 degrees, and you have a set for 90 Degrees all in one package!
Bend them as you need too!
Can't do that with the 'Discount' wires!

No one makes the 'Snap On' to the plug connectors that MSD uses also!
There are some that 'Snap On' but No One Else uses the stainless steel spring that doesn't degrade if it gets hot from electrical current, and the all brass terminals make for some GREAT electrical connections!

Just remember to shoot a little 'Dielectric Grease' into the boots before you push the terminal/wire into the boots!
Makes thing go a BUNCH easier!
-------------------------

Quote:
And since this is my first venture into the ignition modification world, I though I would show my general lack of knowledge by asking if this had a connection that would fit directly onto the Blaster 2F (without the power tower).
Yes.
Use some extra plug wire to make up a 'Coil Wire' with 'Socket' type terminal on one end and 'Tower' type terminal on the other.

You have a full set of BOTH terminals in that bag, and you are going to have a LOT of extra wire once the plug wires are made, so it's a Non-Issue...

You will find a 'Coil Wire' in the set with a special 'Coil Terminal' on one end, and that 'Coil Terminal is for the 'Tower' type terminals.

I often don't use that heavy duty connector they provide for the coil wire since these low voltage factory ignitions, or CDI '6 Series' modules have fairly regulated current output, and I just make my own from extra plug wire and the extra terminals!
That leaves me an 'EXTRA' plug wire or coil wire handy in case my routing of the plug wires leads to a failure...
(Pull one apart, rub it through on something, cook one on headers, ect. You just never know in a Jeep!)
----------------------------------------

Quote:
The bag it came with is FULL of different connectors and boots so I assume that one of them would be able to get the job done.
Yup! Chock FULL!
You can make TWO sets of I-6 Wires if you are careful on how you cut the wires!

Anyway, you will find a FULL set of 'Socket' terminals like the stock distributor cap and coil have,
A FULL set of 'HEI' or modern 'Tower' terminals like the spark plugs and the new distributor cap have,
And you will find a COIL WIRE terminal or two that are extra heavy duty since the coil wire sees EVERY voltage discharge, not just one in six or one in 8 like the plug wires do!

Once you get to sorting the stuff and playing mix & match, you will see you have PLENTY of terminals to do about anything you want too!
(and have 'Extras'! )
----------------------------------

Quote:
Another dumb question - the plug wire set is for an 8 cylinder and I am using it on my 258, I don't think this matters either does it?
Nope! Not one bit!
If you pay attention to the way you cut the wires...
(Long one on a short run so you have a 'Long' leftover,
or short one on a 'Long' run so you have a 'Short' leftover)
You should have plenty enough left over for any kind of 'Custom' wires you want to make,
And an EXTRA SET out of a V-8 Kit.

Buy a few extra terminals, and you have a complete second set! (or give/sell them to someone that hasn't make the jump to the large cap yet to recoup some of your money)

Wire and terminals are the same for both engines, only the number needed and length vary.
-----------------------------------------

Last edited by JeepHammer; 03-28-2009 at 12:44 PM..
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Unread 03-28-2009, 08:07 PM   #160
namredla
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As always, the info is much appreciated JH. I have had my eye on a MC2100 1.08. I just looked and I believe that it is a 287 CFM carb. Maybe a 1.21 (351 CFM) is the way to go.

Thanks again
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Unread 04-02-2009, 08:36 PM   #161
namredla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Painless is pretty well 'Idiot Proof' if you have done ANY wiring before.

The ignition system will be a 'Stand Alone', so diagnosing any potential problems in it will be a SNAP...

As for the ignition hookup, keep the engine harness,
Alternator, distributor to module, ect.
that doesn't come with Painless, and unless you want to rebuild all that from scratch (which isn't hard, just time consuming) you should keep the old engine harness and the harness plugs from it.
JH,

Maybe I am missing something, but with the painless wiring harness, the only stand alone ignition wiring that I will need are the extension / adapters in the schematic on the first page of this thread, correct? And basically, the small red wire coming out of the MSD 6A will connect to the "ignition module" connection in the harness (power maybe?), or the "coil" connection in the wiring harness. If I am right, and the red wire connects to one of these two harness wires (with the other one just being taped off), then isn't that basically all that I have? I understand that the alternator / battery wiring does not come with the harness and needs to be retained. I guess I don't know what I am saving my stock engine harness for if I am trying to duplicate the schematic.

Thanks

Last edited by namredla; 04-03-2009 at 04:26 PM..
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Unread 04-20-2009, 11:17 PM   #162
nazdackster
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Doing it tomorrow...

Jeephammer - question: One of the first things I did when I got my '84 was power wash the engine. It wouldn't start after that, so I took apart the distributor and it had some moisture in it. Turns out I had knocked a ground wire off some part of the ignition with the wand, and once I fixed that it was fine (and clean!).

My current distributor looks like the one in your picture. Is there a good way to really seal up the distributor - will the sealant you mention do a good enough job? I thought the stock one was very prone to having water enter, and couldn't find an o-ring or anything to seal it. My FJ40 has a vented cap (one vent to the interior of vehicle, other to air cleaner, and an O-ring - smart idea). Ever find a good way to vent one of these?

My '84 CJ stumbles a little at idle, and I suspect this upgrade will make that go away. I also notice the oil pressure varies a lot at idle, and maybe goes with the occasional stumble, and wondered if you've ever noticed the upgrade take care of that. I suppose it could be seeing some air pressure variation, though all cylinder compression measured within 2 psi, like 145 at high altitiude, so I figure that is good. Oil pressure is around 20 at idle and around 40 above idle. Any ideas about that would be appreciated...

I found all the parts in stock except the adapter, which should be in tomorrow.

Updated prices I will pay tomorrow:
Autozone Cap & Rotor pkg F2104G (gray with brass terminals) $20.99
Pep-Boys Distributor Wires (BorgWarner CH631SP) $19.99
Advance Auto C193AP adapter $ 5.99

The F2104G comes with a rotor and is spec'd for the Ford 6 cylinder, so I guess I'll try that. Is the F953 required?

I'll let you know how it turns out...
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Unread 04-23-2009, 01:46 PM   #163
jason0heman
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JeepHammer,
I'm in the process of doing the Team Rush Upgrade, and we installed the distributor cap, rotor, new wires, and I just got the Blaster 3 from SummitRacing. It says it requires a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor, but will a 0.5 or 1.0 ballast resistor be fine for this? The engine is stock, and since I've owned it I've nuttered and installed the weber 32/36. Also, what should the timing be set at with this upgrade? I have it at about 12 degrees, but I can occassionally hear some pinging going at about 70 on the highway.

By the way, what a difference this upgrade has made with highway speeds! Thanks JH!
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Unread 04-26-2009, 05:21 PM   #164
genghisman
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Hey JeepHammer, I have a question for you concerning this tune up. A previous owner installed a very crappy HEI on my 258CI and I'm not happy at all with the performance of it (very rough idle and acceleration). I want to do this but I don't have the coil, ignition module (that I'm aware of) or anything related to the previous stock ignition. What would be the list of parts needed to make this work? I'm purchasing a core from an 83 CJ7 that I may work with or use as a core trade in at autozone.
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Unread 05-17-2009, 01:48 PM   #165
viper719
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quick question on the team rush mod... Does this mod work on the newer 4.0 motors? Im running a 96 ho.
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