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Unread 11-07-2005, 02:05 PM   #1
tamu83cj
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Hill Idle Trouble

I have replaced my carb, and took it to the deer lease for opening weekend. This is the first time I've got the 83 cj w/I6 offroad, and when I'm going up a fairly steep incline I really have to get on the gas even in first to keep it from stalling out. When I'm driving on the road and come to a stop while on a hill I have no problems, but these little steeper hills are giving me hell. Roommate says it is user error and says I could always increase the idle but I don't want to do that. I want to be able to idle down the hill and have the engine pull me up with a small amount of gas pedal. I also want to be able to stop on an incline, and put the jeep in neutral and have it idle. Any ideas? Thanks to all.

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Unread 11-07-2005, 02:43 PM   #2
Geer_hed
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If you're running the Carter BBD, it's notorious for poor off-road / off-camber performance. That's one of the things that makes the MC21xx so appealing. I'm going to take a just-this-side-of-ignorant stab at it and say your carb is cutting out on steep angles. I'll let some other mud lovers and rock heads speak up on it, b/c I can't compare it for offroad performance, but I've read many many threads stipulating the carter's crappy off camber idle. Hell... give it time and it'll start idling poorly on level ground too... frickin carter...
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Unread 11-07-2005, 03:08 PM   #3
tamu83cj
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Damn I'm glad we have geer_hed to be honest around here. So, what you're saying is there is nothing I can do????? LOL!! Damn money pit. I love riding it, but there is always something else to fix.
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Unread 11-07-2005, 03:27 PM   #4
tamu83cj
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I just did a little checking, and actually it is a Redman Carb. Mean anything to you? It is the one with the oval air intake filter sitting on top of the carb.
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Unread 11-07-2005, 03:49 PM   #5
Geer_hed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu83cj
So, what you're saying is there is nothing I can do????? LOL!! Damn money pit. I love riding it, but there is always something else to fix.
Couldn't have said it better.

A "Redman" carburetor? Not a familiar one to me, and I can't google it either. Are there any tags, numbers, or castings to identify it? How about a pic? Either way, I'm thinking the same principle applies. If it's an idle issue that occurs only in off-camber situations, then it's certainly the most obvious. But there's always some bizarre things that could be strung together to cause the same circumstances.

Usually the off-road carbs come with a spring loaded needle to prevent sticking at angles -- which is almost exactly what you're describing. The only thing that gets me is you say you can ramp up the RPM on the hill and it's ok, it just won't idle on an angle. I guess it could be a richer mix would aid you there to get more fuel under the throttle plates, but that's only doing the same thing...

Redman.... maybe someone else can provide some more input...
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Unread 11-07-2005, 04:51 PM   #6
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Are you sure you don't mean "Redline"... as in the Weber Redline?? If it's actually a Weber try running a fuel pressure regulator right in front of it. Set it at about 3 to 3.5 psi and you should notice better idle on inclines. It made a huge difference for me, and it also starts alot quicker when the engine is warm too. I want to say I paid 25-30 bucks for one from Summit or Jegs.
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Unread 11-07-2005, 05:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshark299
Are you sure you don't mean "Redline"...
Good freakin call
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Unread 11-08-2005, 10:09 AM   #8
tamu83cj
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Tshark, you're good. It is a Redline with a manual choke. How tough is it to put the fuel pressure regulator on?
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Unread 11-08-2005, 10:14 AM   #9
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Is there a certain brand that I need to get?
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Unread 11-08-2005, 10:21 AM   #10
Tshark299
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It's really easy. If you go on Summit Racing and look for Mr. Gasket Co. part number MRG-9710 you'll see the one I used. Although, now I see they stock a similar looking one under a different name for less money too - Spectre SPE-2517.

It comes with different fittings for different size fuel lines... just use the ones that match yours and splice it in line between the fuel filter and the carb. The clamps that come with it are stupid so I used some normal hose clamps when I put mine in.

Some people use the Holley one too but I don't have any experience with it personally.
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Unread 11-08-2005, 10:27 AM   #11
tamu83cj
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I got it, thanks a lot.
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Unread 11-09-2005, 08:04 AM   #12
tamu83cj
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OK TShark, I have the regulator and I'm going to put it on tonight or tomorrow. How exactly is this going to help my idle on hills. I've learned a lot about this jeep over the past 6 mths that I've had it, so I don't want to stop now. Thank you,
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Unread 11-09-2005, 08:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu83cj
OK TShark, I have the regulator and I'm going to put it on tonight or tomorrow. How exactly is this going to help my idle on hills. I've learned a lot about this jeep over the past 6 mths that I've had it, so I don't want to stop now. Thank you,

It's going to drop the fuel pressure that is hitting against the needle float assembly. To much pressure and it's going to force it open and raise the float level. Usually at an angle the floats are going to have a tendency to drop or raise more than they do when on level ground. To high or to lowwof float level and the mixturing is going to be incorrect when at an angle. When you step on the gas, your using a different system to deliver fuel in the proper ratio. The idle circuit has less of an effect on the mixture when the throttle is open. That's why it runs OK at higher RPMs.

Some of the disk type regulators stop working after a little while. The Holley regulators seem to be the best.

Also, is there a fuel return line connected from the fuel filter? That also helps a lot giving a place to bleed off extra pressure.

You know, I heard things about the BBD having poor idle and stuff but not about being bad off road. USually if something is off to begin with, like a vacuum leak or incorrect fuel level, when you put it to extreems it just makes it worse. Anyone have a good working BBD offroad? I can't believe the YF works so good but the BBD is so bad. I'd try one myself but I'm going to FI anyway.
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Unread 11-09-2005, 01:05 PM   #14
Tshark299
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^ Said it better than I could have. Factory fuel pressure is around 7.5psi I believe. The Weber was designed for 3-3.5. I originally got my regulator in an attempt to make it start easier after the engine was warmed up. It was only after I had it installed that I noticed it ran a bit better on steep inclines as well.

Quote:
Some of the disk type regulators stop working after a little while. The Holley regulators seem to be the best.
How do you set the Holley regulator to the desired pressure? Do you need a pressure gauge or something? I don't really know anything about them, but if they are in fact better I would consider one if this Mr. Gasket one goes bad.
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'95 XJ - Donated drive train to the YJ, Parted out the rest

'51 CJ-3A - Buick 225 V6: Painless Wiring Harness, Warn Overdrive & Hubs, 2" Lift, 31" Muds
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Unread 11-09-2005, 01:54 PM   #15
Geer_hed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk
You know, I heard things about the BBD having poor idle and stuff but not about being bad off road. USually if something is off to begin with, like a vacuum leak or incorrect fuel level, when you put it to extreems it just makes it worse. Anyone have a good working BBD offroad?
Well, I guess I should stipulate that I have little off-road experience with the Carter, especially if steep angles are in question, so I can't speak from personal experience. After a while, it ran like crap on flat roads, so no need to tempt fate, right?

Oddly, it seems that most of the AMC pages (non-jeep models included) rave about the Carter's off-the-shelf off-road potential (who knew Eagles like to off-road???). The concensus amongst the jeep sites/forum threads seems to be that a running condition carter will suffice offroad, but the room for improvement is abundant - even with a cheapo mod like the MC21xx, supposedly the difference in off-camber idle is immediately present, and the degree of incline without idle depreciation is greater.

There are people who say that the Carter simply will not idle on inclines - it will either bog until stall or just die altogether. However, you're probably correct in saying that most of them are simply exaggerating a pre-existing condition with the demand of off-camber idle.
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