High steer/caster angle question - Page 2

foggybottombob · 08-14-2012, 11:21 PM

I always put a socket on the top ball joint castle nut and then put the angle finder on top of the socket. That nut is 1 5/16". If the bottom ball joint is more forward than the top one you have positive caster.

nshefbuch · 08-15-2012, 03:34 AM

Tow out of 3/4" sounds like way to much. Mine is 1/8" and tracks straight.

Couple things to check, lift one wheel up and grab top and bottom of tire and shake it checking wheel bearings and try and look if any play is present in ball joints.

Other thing to check is saw your steering back and forth, have someone else do this, while you watch underneath to look for any play in anything.

Your toe out sounds like the problem to me though. Set it to 1/8" and try driving.

wblackm · 08-15-2012, 05:30 AM

I agree, that will definitely be the first thing I address. I looked at it some last night.

I have a Chevy Dana 44 up front with what appears to be tie rod from a k5 blazer. I am concerned that I dont have that much adjustment in it...that said I have no experience with steering so I most likely just dont know what im looking at.

foggybottombob · 08-15-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wblackm

Ok. Thanks for the info. The jeep has a toe out of about 3/4 of an inch so maybe thats the issue.

The pitman arm is 6 inches center of bolt to center of bolt, so I dont know that it is too short.

Would toe out also keep the jeep from returning to center? I guess its also possible that the light nature of the steering gets even lighter after a bump and that is why it feels unsafe. New shocks might go a long way on that front

It's the ratio of the pitman arm length (hole center to hole center) to the steering arm length (ball joint center to drag link hole center) that matters. You only quoted half of the issue.

CSP · 08-15-2012, 08:06 AM

Positive caster is when the upper balljoint is behind the lower if you were to draw a straigth line between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nshefbuch

Tow out of 3/4" sounds like way to much. Mine is 1/8" and tracks straight.

That should be toe-in not out.

wblackm · 08-15-2012, 08:07 AM

Ok. I did not understand what you meant in your first post. I'll check tonight. What is the correct ratio between pitman/steering arm? I would assume 1:1?

foggybottombob · 08-15-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wblackm

Ok. I did not understand what you meant in your first post. I'll check tonight. What is the correct ratio between pitman/steering arm? I would assume 1:1?

1:1 is a good starting point.

wblackm · 08-15-2012, 08:43 AM

That is how my caster is setup, if I had a lower ball joint. Both joint s are on the same arm due to high steer. I don't think the caster is the issue since I remeasured at 6.5. I am going to align it with 1/8 toe in, and see what that does.

I will also look into the arm ratios, but my high steer kit looks to be identical to the others Ive seen on the forums

CSP · 08-15-2012, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wblackm

That is how my caster is setup, if I had a lower ball joint. Both joint s are on the same arm due to high steer.

Umm, ball joints are what connect the outer knuckle to the inner C on the axle housing. You have tie-rod ends/drag link ends confused with balljoints.

wblackm · 08-15-2012, 10:24 AM

See I told yall I don't know what I'm looking at haha...then yes my upper ball joint lags behind the lower...

There is some oil leaking on the passenger side lower ball joint...i cannot tell if it's coming from the ball joint or the axle bearing, as I had that go wrong on my rear axle. That is a possible culprit as well

CSP · 08-15-2012, 11:18 AM

The ball joint won't leak oil. It's packed full of grease, not oil. The only oil that's in that area would have to come past an inner seal in the axle and out the end of the axle tube.

Time to get familiar with your axle parts.

nshefbuch · 08-15-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSP

Positive caster is when the upper balljoint is behind the lower if you were to draw a straigth line between them.

That should be toe-in not out.

Yes CSP again thanks for correcting me

I too have Chevy d44 and I set my "toe in" to 1/8" and it tracks just fine. I'm using custom made everything though so I have plenty of adjustment in tie rod bar.

wblackm · 08-17-2012, 10:45 PM

Well took it in for alignment, there is in fact no room for adjustment, so the toe out stays for now. tie rod adjustment is actually tac welded as short as possible.

Also I have hiem joints, which are more "lose" by nature in the name of articulation. I was not aware of the fact that they had that much more play but oh well. Looks like it will stay the same for now. Perhaps new/custom tie rod/draglink in the future.

There is a little play in the steering shaft that I found, but is a very small part of the problem. I will look into fixing that soon.

Thanks for all the help, I definitely learned a lot through the process.

nshefbuch · 08-18-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wblackm

Well took it in for alignment, there is in fact no room for adjustment, so the toe out stays for now. tie rod adjustment is actually tac welded as short as possible.

Also I have hiem joints, which are more "lose" by nature in the name of articulation. I was not aware of the fact that they had that much more play but oh well. Looks like it will stay the same for now. Perhaps new/custom tie rod/draglink in the future.

There is a little play in the steering shaft that I found, but is a very small part of the problem. I will look into fixing that soon.

Thanks for all the help, I definitely learned a lot through the process.

No offense but to me this is unacceptable. Get some DOM tubing and ends and cut to correct length and get someone else to weld the ends if you can't. This way you can set toe correctly. I want you to be safe not only to you but others on the road. This is the responsibility you take to drive a soa jeep on the road. I hope you can get this fixed. Heims will flex more yes but act the same as tie rods when actually steering a vehicle.

wblackm · 08-18-2012, 02:03 PM

Well thats pretty harsh considering that you don't know me or how cautious I am. Am I going to be able to fix it right away? no. Believe me, I wish I had unlimited funds or the knowledge/ability to be able to fix this myself.

That however is not the case. I feel like if I built something, myself and others would be more at risk than at present.

That said the only time the issue presents as anything more than an annoyance is above 55mph and I hit a bump. As stated I get a second or two of really light, bump steer type affect(i recognize its not actually bump steer)

So until I can afford to fix the problem, I will keep it below 55 and off the highways. I am also going to install a stabilizer which will help when I hit bumps.

I appreciate your concern, and I agree with you. But nowhere in that statement did I say that I was going to drive it as if this was not an issue. This jeep is not a DD so I dont have to put it on the highways.

I also plan on getting a 4x4 shop around here to look at it and give an estimate to fix so that I can save up.

Hopefully this clarifies your concerns.