high pressure fuel pump for injected engine conversion - Page 4 - JeepForum.com

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post #46 of 77 Old 03-09-2009, 02:18 AM
coas
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It sound like your pump is working too hard pushing fuel. this can result from kinked line, too restricted filters or if the pump is mounted too high in the system.
I would check the lines for restriction first. always use 3/8 in/out filter before the pump along with 3/8 hose like Fram G3 and replace it after 2-3 tank fill ups until your fuel tank is clean. A stock YJ/XJ fuel filter have a 3/8 inlet and 5/16 outlet is perfect as after pump filter.
If there is any sharp bending in your system using a hose replace it with hard line, when the hose get warm it become softer and collapsing, causing increased restriction. Never use fuel hose longer than 30 cm.
Remove the fuel lines away from heat source when possible or use insulation when not.
Make sure the return line is in good shape too and not smaller than 5/16 diameter.

As for the options you mentioned, the more flow flowing in the system the better, the extra fuel IS what cools the pump, with lower flow capability pump the problem will only worsen, assuming the current pump is fine. As for the inlet, 1/2 inlet will work better than 5/16, this allow easier "suction" resulting in less stress on the pump and faster priming.

I live in similar climate to Greece and with the right setup I have no problem even after 3 hours, mostly full throttle, of dunes riding at 45C.

A few pictures of your setup will help.


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post #47 of 77 Old 03-09-2009, 10:21 AM
1975Waggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coas View Post
It sound like your pump is working too hard pushing fuel. this can result from kinked line, too restricted filters or if the pump is mounted too high in the system.
I would check the lines for restriction first. always use 3/8 in/out filter before the pump along with 3/8 hose like Fram G3 and replace it after 2-3 tank fill ups until your fuel tank is clean. A stock YJ/XJ fuel filter have a 3/8 inlet and 5/16 outlet is perfect as after pump filter.
If there is any sharp bending in your system using a hose replace it with hard line, when the hose get warm it become softer and collapsing, causing increased restriction. Never use fuel hose longer than 30 cm.
Remove the fuel lines away from heat source when possible or use insulation when not.
Make sure the return line is in good shape too and not smaller than 5/16 diameter.

As for the options you mentioned, the more flow flowing in the system the better, the extra fuel IS what cools the pump, with lower flow capability pump the problem will only worsen, assuming the current pump is fine. As for the inlet, 1/2 inlet will work better than 5/16, this allow easier "suction" resulting in less stress on the pump and faster priming.

I live in similar climate to Greece and with the right setup I have no problem even after 3 hours, mostly full throttle, of dunes riding at 45C.

A few pictures of your setup will help.
Thanks for coming back on this quickly. This problem has been plaguing me for a while now. Bear with me please for a few more questions, just to make sure I've understood this. From what I gather you are recommending that, unless I can get the pump in the tank, I should stick with the E2182 but make sure I set it up as you point out. So:
1 - If I can manage to put the E2182 in the tank, can I still use the stock 5/16 line that goes to the bottom of the tank to feed the pump, or will I need to replace it with a 1/2 inch or 3/8 line?
2 - Because it's more than likely that I'll have difficulties in puting the pump in the tank, I think I will have to get a 1/2 inch line from the lowest point in the tank to feed the pump. The pump inlet will be approximately level with this line and in roughly a straight line, but about half a metre from the point of fuel availability in the tank. To put a decent filter in between will increase this distance. Does this set-up sound OK?
3 - Because I may have difficulties in getting the correct size filters over here, can you let me know exactly which filter I can use pre-pump and after-pump so I can locate a supplier in the US and order them. One point here. Is it OK to use 5/16 outlet for the after-pump filter? At the moment the line from the pump to the fuel rail is 3/8.
I'll try to get a few pictures of the current set-up.
Again, thanks very much for your help.
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post #48 of 77 Old 03-10-2009, 12:14 AM
coas
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5/16 line will do fine and so is a 5/16 after pump outlet.
I can't really comment about the setup without seeing a picture.

For a pre pump filter I'm using this.



For after-pump filter you can look over here, part No G3641 or 530MP or 33486 or this.



Keep in mind that an overheated pump is not working as new anymore, you might need a new one eventually.

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post #49 of 77 Old 03-10-2009, 05:27 AM
seapig100
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You need to buy a pump with a least 125 psi you want to stay under 50percent duty cycle and this engine calls for 55 to 60 psi so you want a 125psi pump or the pump will have a short life
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post #50 of 77 Old 03-10-2009, 08:41 AM
1975Waggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seapig100 View Post
You need to buy a pump with a least 125 psi you want to stay under 50percent duty cycle and this engine calls for 55 to 60 psi so you want a 125psi pump or the pump will have a short life
Could you please put this in layman's terms. I'm not sure I understand what it is you are trying to say. Thank you.
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post #51 of 77 Old 03-10-2009, 09:56 AM
coas
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He's confusing pressure with flow, the pump constantly working on max pressure unless you supply reduced voltage. Any FI system need a pump that can supply the fuel requirements and still have sufficient flow for pump/line/fuel cooling. The E2182 have that

By CustomEfis the system pressure is regulated Buick port EFI regulator which supply 45PSI. Ive seen the E2182 working with systems that calls for more than that with no issues. Jeep 4.0L MPI need 31-41 PSI as in my converted CJ7, working just fine.

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post #52 of 77 Old 03-13-2009, 04:23 AM
1975Waggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coas View Post
He's confusing pressure with flow, the pump constantly working on max pressure unless you supply reduced voltage. Any FI system need a pump that can supply the fuel requirements and still have sufficient flow for pump/line/fuel cooling. The E2182 have that

By CustomEfis the system pressure is regulated Buick port EFI regulator which supply 45PSI. Ive seen the E2182 working with systems that calls for more than that with no issues. Jeep 4.0L MPI need 31-41 PSI as in my converted CJ7, working just fine.
Even though I'm not particularly well versed in such technical matters, what you say makes sense. I'm sure you know the E2182 inside out!!

I spoke to the Airtex technical supervisor to get some feed back from them as well, and he told me that the E2182 is actually listed as an in-tank pump. Having spoken to one of the engineers he said that it can also be mounted externally.

He also told me that the inlet size of the E2182 on the pump's body is only 1/4 inch, even though the fitting on the inlet is 1/2 inch. That's a bit puzzling.

Monday morning the tank is coming down and an attempt will be made to put the E2182 in the tank by somehow attaching it to the metal line going down into the deep part of the tank. If it can't be done, 1/2 inch hole will be opened at the bottom of the tank and 1/2 inch line to feed the pump in as straight a line as possible and the pump as low as possible, with a good filter in between. Filter after the pump as well on the existing 3/8 high pressure hose.
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post #53 of 77 Old 03-17-2009, 01:34 PM
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The E2182 was successfully placed in the fuel tank. It wasn't very difficult after all, just a delicate job that needs attention to detail. It's working fine, but the acid test will be during a longish trip and especially during the hot summer months when the problem was acute and more frequent.

If anybody wants some details on this let me know.
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post #54 of 77 Old 03-17-2009, 02:01 PM
whittlecj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975Waggy View Post
The E2182 was successfully placed in the fuel tank. It wasn't very difficult after all, just a delicate job that needs attention to detail. It's working fine, but the acid test will be during a longish trip and especially during the hot summer months when the problem was acute and more frequent.

If anybody wants some details on this let me know.

Yes, please offer details including pictures if you have them. I have not yet put my fuel system together so your experience may help.

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post #55 of 77 Old 03-18-2009, 05:59 PM
1975Waggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whittlecj View Post
Yes, please offer details including pictures if you have them. I have not yet put my fuel system together so your experience may help.

I'd be very happy to give you more details on what was actually done, but the in-tank installation I'm refering to is for a 1975 Wagoneer using the stock fuel tank, sending unit, fuel lines, etc. as the basis for the installation. Would this be appropriate for your CJ7?
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post #56 of 77 Old 03-18-2009, 06:08 PM
whittlecj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975Waggy View Post
I'd be very happy to give you more details on what was actually done, but the in-tank installation I'm refering to is for a 1975 Wagoneer using the stock fuel tank, sending unit, fuel lines, etc. as the basis for the installation. Would this be appropriate for your CJ7?
Maybe - I'm not sure how similar the systems are - but the concept is similar so I think it would help.

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post #57 of 77 Old 03-20-2009, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whittlecj View Post
Maybe - I'm not sure how similar the systems are - but the concept is similar so I think it would help.
The sending unit on the fuel tank has a metal line going vertically down into the tank with a sock to act as a filter. This metal line was cut near the top and the pump's outlet was attached to the metal line using a small piece of high pressure and rigid hose and 2 tightning clamps (one at each end) to secure it. A flat good quality fuel filter was attached to the pump's inlet to prevent dirt and debris going into the pump and the injectors. The total distance from top to bottom of the tank was accurately measured such that when the sending unit with the EFI pump, securing hose, filter etc. was secured in the tank, the pump's filter is just about touching the bottom of the tank. The pump's wiring (2 wires) were passed out of the tank by drilling a very small hole at the centre of the sending unit's lid. When the sending unit is secured in the tank this hole is sealed with a good hardening glue.

After that we secured the stock metal sending and return lines to the sending unit. These lines go along the side and around the front of the tank to the engine bay. The pump's wiring follows the same route to the EFI system's wiring harness (the earth wire is attached to the Jeep's frame).

When I up-load the relevant pictures to my computer I'll send them to you.

Whether this installation will solve my problem remains to be seen.
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post #58 of 77 Old 03-20-2009, 08:10 AM
whittlecj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975Waggy View Post
When I up-load the relevant pictures to my computer I'll send them to you.

Whether this installation will solve my problem remains to be seen.
Thanks! That was a good report, I look forward to the pictures. If you want me to post them to this thread, PM them or email them to me (I've PMd my email address to you.)

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post #59 of 77 Old 03-20-2009, 11:37 AM
Coiz
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Please do post a picture of the pump/line/filter section that is inside of the tank. Part numbers of any of those parts would also be welcome. I will also be looking into this in the next few weeks.

Mike

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post #60 of 77 Old 03-21-2009, 02:04 PM
1975Waggy
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Question for coas. When the engine is idling and you grab the high pressure hose that delivers fuel to the rail you feel a very distinctive and regular throb or pulse. Is this normal, and if so what causes it?
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