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-   -   Help a Newbie. Brake system (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/help-newbie-brake-system-1528614/)

dorthensensens 05-26-2013 06:55 PM

Help a Newbie. Brake system
 
Hello All. I'm new to restoring. So far I've been able to change my fan, rebuild my transfer case, fix various electrical problems, install a new low range unit and install a new OME lift kit in my garage with very little experience all with the great help from jeep enthusiast forums just like these.

I now need to over hall my brake system. I've added larger tires and the added stress has caused something near my master brake cylinder/booster to create a brake fluid leak. In order for me to get the proper parts, I need to find out if my brake callipers are connected via a 2 bolt or a 6 bolt system. I've learned what each system looks like and i've set off to try to see what version I have.

Since I'm a brand new to this, I need some help in dismantling my front brake system and while I'm there, change the front pads. Unfortunately I have no Idea what to do next. Here are some photos of my front passenger brake.

http://imgur.com/a/J0hPu

Do I unfasten the 6 bolts as pictured in the first photo? Pull the assembly forward? The calliper itself has a small hex screw that I can remove as well but I haven't a clue what that does.

If anyone would be so kind to help me out I'd me exceedingly appreciative.

Thank you

BagusJeep 05-27-2013 05:15 AM

Take the hex screw out and you will find it is securing a small metal plate that is wedging the caliper in. Take out the small plate and it will come apart.

DO NOT TAKE OFF THE 6 BOLTS!!

dorthensensens 05-27-2013 03:04 PM

Dear BagusJeep

THANK YOU for telling me to not unscrew those 6 bolts! Again I am wading into unknown territory so any help is truly appreciated.

I am able to remove the Hex screw no problem. What I do not understand is from where to I knock out the plate? Through The Hex hole? Elsewhere? I'm not certain what it is I'm looking for frankly.

Thank you

skizriz 05-27-2013 06:29 PM

I am all for somebody learning to work on their own Jeep. Owning a CJ it's almost a necessity. But in this case, with your level of ability, either take it to a mechanic or get somebody to help you. Brakes aren't something you want to dive into completely blind.
Ask friends, coworkers, family, somebody for help.
I would gladly spend time helping you if you were close by.

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dorthensensens 05-27-2013 06:45 PM

Thank you Skizriz. I appreciate the concern. I'm still determined to learn to do this myself. I was also dissuaded to rebuild my transfer case and Install new suspension but I've found people on these forums are extremely generous with their knowledge and I've have been successful at completing those tasks. That being said, I will bring the jeep to a mechanic to look over my work as I've done with my other fixes.

Interestingly, other than the engine, It seems we have the same make and year of CJ. Mine too is a 78 CJ 7 with quadra trac. Do you happen to have any photos of your front brake system showing the piece I need to knock out after I remove the Hex screw?

Thank you

BagusJeep 05-27-2013 07:10 PM

Mess with the brakes, they are not complicated and you will learn a lot more about your Jeep from working on it. A 1970s CJ has a very ordinary Girling type hydraulic system with or without booster and the only fiddly part is bleeding the master cylinder.

The plate can be knocked out sideways if it does not come loose. A screwdriver and hammer will do it but choose a cheap screwdriver as it is not the best use for a screwdriver.

The whole caliper is supposed to be able to slide from side to side so the plate only stops it from coming up. If you are not removing the hose (which you would not do for a brake pad change) you can suspend it on a piece of string from the suspension, just do not stress the brake hose. If you see any signs of cracks in the hose, particularly where it bends, it is time to replace it anyway.

You should be using a correct brake spanner, not an ordinary C open ended spanner, on the brake pipe fittings and bleed nipples. Those suckers are soft and easily rounded if they do not want to give. a brake spanner is almost a circle with a small gap to get it round the brake pipe, you can pick them up at any good auto spares outlet for a few bucks.

If you want to rebuild the caliper or check the inside for corrosion you can take the pistons out of the caliper by applying brake pedal pressure. Once out you can examine the bore for pitting and put new seals on the piston or if pitted you can replace the caliper. Just remember to lube the seals with the correct brake seal grease before putting it back, do not use ordinary grease and make sure NO DIRT gets in there before you fit the dust covers. You will have to do both sides to get even braking but beware, there is a left and a right so do not get them mixed up and do not kink the brake hose.

Brake pads are easily inserted but if you are just changing pads and not seals you will need to lever those pistons back to get the clearance once you have the caliper off the disc. I open up the bleed nipple and drain some fluid from the caliper as it stops the reservoir at the master cylinder from overflowing and the fluid at the caliper is always the oldest in the system.

Once it is all back together you can think about bleeding the system through with fresh fluid, a few bucks but it will replace the moisture absorbent gunk in there. You need to read the manual on the correct procedure (including the Combination Valve being held open) as they are bled at the four corners in a sequence. furthest away first.

It is preferable to have an assistant for the bleeding, my wife hops in and then gets confused over UP v DOWN on the brake pedal but it is always fun. In fact it is always fun to have company when working on the Jeep but my boy is only 2 years old and gets the 1/2" spanner mixed up with the 11mm so the wife it has to be.

If you finish it and have a hard pedal and it does not pull side to side on braking it is good to go.

The rear drums hide the brake wheel cylinders. They can leak, burst and generally mess up but are only a few bucks so if I take the brakes apart I have new ones to hand. The self adjusting mechanism is also known to give up but if you can get the rear drums off (and they can be truly stuck, slacken the brake adjusters and hit them with a hammer round the edges) it is fairly easy to replace the parts or if they are in good condition to work the screw back and forth. The springs can flummox most people so get a diagram of where they go and do not lose the little screws on the drum face that locate the drums, they often are lost and it is a PITA as the drums can start rubbing and squealing.

And the very very last thing, when you work under a Jeep ALWAYS have it supported on a proper axle stand on a level floor with the wheels chocked and preferbly have the spare tyre under the frame as well. They will slip off a jack and many a home mechanic has been lost in that way. If I work on mine by the side of the road teh spare always goes under he frame and it is lowered down on to it (PS I see skizriz has reproduced one of your pics below which IMHO shows how not to do it, a jack by itself should be avoided and you are risking losing a foot or worse if that is all that is holding up the corner of your Jeep).

Good luck with the brakes, you feel them every time you touch the pedal and are very satisfying to get right.

skizriz 05-27-2013 07:24 PM

Once you remove the hex bolt, place a screwdriver where the red arrow is, and gently tap it in the direction of the green arrow. It should slide out without too much trouble.
There are two pieces in there sandwiched together, that hold the caliper in place.

http://i39.tinypic.com/33v1ysg.jpg

dorthensensens 05-27-2013 08:16 PM

Thank you Skizriz! This is what I needed! And BagusJeep, How can I ever repay you! This is fantastic information. The photo of bad form is my own. But I do have 2 Axle stands holding up the jeep on the frame out of view on the same side as the removed tire just behind the spring leaf frame shackle. I placed the hydraulic jack there as a "catch" to the a axle as my front differential sits on the side I'm working on.

BagusJeep 05-27-2013 09:14 PM

Yeah, safety first.:thumbsup:

dorthensensens 05-29-2013 10:14 AM

Hi Everyone,

With a little penetrating oil I've managed to loosen the hex bolt. I've also was able to slide out the the two pieces that hold the calliper in place. I am able to fiddle with calliper so that it has some movement on the rotor but as I try to remove the calliper, the brake pad is getting stuck on the calliper mount (which I can now tell is a 6 bolt calliper mount system). What method should I try to remove the calliper from the rotor so that the pad doesn't hit the calliper mount?

Thank you.

skizriz 05-29-2013 01:21 PM

Crack open the bleeder and compress the piston to give you the room to clear the brake pad.

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dorthensensens 07-01-2013 08:54 PM

Hello All!

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that replied. I managed to remove the calliper, change the pads install a new brake master cylinder and booster and bleed the MC and the brake lines all because of the kind people on these forums!

I've got other issue with the engine but that is for another thread. You guys are the best!

Jsides 07-14-2013 08:23 AM

Kudos for being determined to do this yourself! As a wise old saying goes, "Give a man a fish & he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish & he eats for a lifetime."

I'm in the same boat with you. New to Jeeps, but headstrong about DIY. I'm trying to get my 86 Cj7 road worthy after a 4 year hiatus. Hopefully, we both will prevail. Good luck! & Happy Jeeping!


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