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Unread 07-10-2013, 04:00 AM   #676
2Xtreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
You reported pinging without any vacuum advance hooked up. Untill you have zero detonation with mechanical advance only. anything related to vacuum advance is mute.

Your CTO is operating what? You should not be running your vacuum advance through it. You are know where near stock.

In fact I see zero reason for you to be using it. Except for the evap canister if you still have one.

GM has a upper engine cleaner in a spray can that you spray in the intake. Its between 10 and 20 dollars a can. Its what I used along with the piston ring soak to make my detonation manageable Untill I was done working my mpg head.

Detonation is caused by many things. Too much advance, carbon deposits making hotspots, oil burning which has zero octane and actually self ignites like diesel, lean conditions. Bla bla. Even your hot plugs. (Which you went 1 colder with no improvement).

When you watch your timing with a timing light at a steady rpm is it butter smooth or does it jump around?

If you pull the dizzy cap off how many degrees of rotation on the crank does it take for the dizzy rotor to start moving? Like going clockwise Untill it moves and mark the spot then go counter clockwise Untill it moves the other way. That will show how loose your chain is.

Its not looking like a magic pill (or something easy) will solve your problem.

A lot of things could be causing your detonation. From the carbon buildup, to the oil burning, to the higher compression caused by the carbon buildup ( which in in of itself increases blowby on a tired engine)
Vac advance is direct from manifold.

Is the upper end cleaner only available at a dealer?

I'll check the dist 'play' next trip to garage. Maybe tonight.
What am I turning and marking?


I feel and engine swap/ rebuild coming on....

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Unread 07-10-2013, 04:08 AM   #677
John Strenk
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Do a compression test first.

Yes carbon can get that hot to cause preignition.

I use water to clean out the carbon in my cylinders. But you have to be very very careful you don't add to much because it can crack your piston if you add to much to quickly
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Unread 07-10-2013, 04:53 AM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
Do a compression test first.

Yes carbon can get that hot to cause preignition.

I use water to clean out the carbon in my cylinders. But you have to be very very careful you don't add to much because it can crack your piston if you add to much to quickly
Hoping to pick up a remote start switch and do a compression test tonight.

I've never done any of this type of cleaning with a carbureted engine. Do I pour it slowly down the throat of the carb, mist it in with a spray bottle?
On the injected engines I've done it on, I always used a small vaccum line to 'suck' it into the engine a little at a time.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 06:28 AM   #679
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I have a few questions on a couple other things that were mentioned 'over there'...

What are your collective thoughts on these 2 settings mentioned in the dist?
"If you have the Motorcraft electronic ignition, there is 2 settings for mechanical advance inside the dist (under the breaker plate) I would at least check to see if one of the springs broke."


What is Static Timing? Is it another term for something we have already done? Does this make sense?
"Find out where you static timing is and set it for about 8 degrees advance or between 5 and 8 degrees advance using the normal method of disconnecting vacuum advance and setting it at idle."

In/ out??
"should've been in and not out to lessen the vacuum advance."

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going with the advice you guys are giving me. Just gathering information. I certainly would do anything suggested 'over there' without running it by you guys. Too many cooks, ya know?

You guys have all stuck with me through this, and I appreciate it immensely.
Not going to jump ship. Just grasping at straws.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 06:52 AM   #680
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Out (counter-clockwise) will allow the vacuum advance to dump out sooner as you give it more throttle. He probably just had a moment of lysdexia. A good starting point may be 7 turns out. Just like the mixture screws: all the way in and then back out 7 turns.


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Unread 07-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #681
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I'm pretty my vacuum was two turns out from all the way in.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
I'm pretty my vacuum was two turns out from all the way in.
IIRC, that's about where mine was from the factory. When I made the switch to manifold vacuum, it ended up around 7 out.


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Unread 07-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454

IIRC, that's about where mine was from the factory. When I made the switch to manifold vacuum, it ended up around 7 out.

Shawn
I never touched mine. Its still there

Edit.

Rrrrrr Grammys not mine
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Unread 07-10-2013, 09:26 PM   #684
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Mine is about 7 turns out.
Set it when i did my timing curve using a vacuum pump to help find when it came into play and stopped per Shawn and Matt's advice.

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Unread 07-10-2013, 09:38 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbtgait
Mine is about 7 turns out.
Set it when i did my timing curve using a vacuum pump to help find when it came into play and stopped per Shawn and Matt's advice.

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Grammys is still set factory. No detonation. Has around 23 to 25 degrees advance at idle on manifold as source.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #686
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I think what's important to keep in mind is that there's no telling what the factory did from year to year to keep up with ever-changing EPA bs, especially if they changed the computer program, cam, changes in fuel requirements, etc. Each one should be set up individually.


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Unread 07-10-2013, 10:13 PM   #687
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Also, my dizzy was a remanufactured one I put in last August.
It did come set up at 4 turns out.
I would say that if the dizzy has been replaced, one should check it.
I had no ping at 4 out, no ping at 7 out.

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Unread 07-10-2013, 10:41 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbtgait
Also, my dizzy was a remanufactured one I put in last August.
It did come set up at 4 turns out.
I would say that if the dizzy has been replaced, one should check it.
I had no ping at 4 out, no ping at 7 out.

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From my "poorly remembered" experience 4 turns out was a more aggressive vacuum advance curve than 7 turns out was. Grammys dizzy was a reman 13r.

I thought from what I seen the more counter clockwise you turned it the less advance under vacuum you got.

I'm sure when I go to the 18r slot or the 20r slot I made I might need to dial it back a tad unless the tighter mechanical springs keep the advance close to the 13r at lower rpm where the vacuum is higher.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 06:52 AM   #689
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......Before I put a breather on, the open tube (in one of the photos I posted) had always emitted a decent amount of smoke.

Now, I have seen several photos online of 258ís with the PCV valve and breather locations in the reverse locations of mine.
Mine has always been set up with the valve in front and the breather at the rear.

I am wondering if, since the rear location is emitting smoke (gasses), maybe that is supposed to be the PCV VALVE location and the breather (PCV air In) should be in the front?

Or maybe it doesnít matter.
I mean, itís two indistinct holes in the valve cover. And I obviously donít know anything about the PCV system.

Thoughts?
Still wondering about this.
Anyone have any input?

Didn't get to the garage last night.
Tonight for sure.

Doing compression test and carbon cleaning.
As well as removing that breather (which is surely saturated by now anyway) and seeing if that eliminates the leak. I'm thinking it will....
Also wondering if I should take another look at where the timing is.

Thoughts?
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Unread 07-11-2013, 07:39 AM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Xtreme

Still wondering about this.
Anyone have any input?

Didn't get to the garage last night.
Tonight for sure.

Doing compression test and carbon cleaning.
As well as removing that breather (which is surely saturated by now anyway) and seeing if that eliminates the leak. I'm thinking it will....
Also wondering if I should take another look at where the timing is.

Thoughts?
My pcv is in the front, breather in the rear. All manuals, diagrams Ive seen show the same. All my previous chevys in the 70/80's had the same, taking in air from the rear of the air cleaner housing.

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