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Unread 05-07-2013, 02:36 AM   #16
TIPPEDITOVER
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Pinging can be caused by a multitude of different things, not just advanced ignition timing. However, good point about the balancer possibly not being accurate and could have slipped. That is possible. Owner would have to find true top dead center with a piston stop tool and degree wheel, then remark the balancer accordingly, if it was found to be inaccurate.

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Unread 05-07-2013, 03:17 AM   #17
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIPPEDITOVER View Post
Pinging can be caused by a multitude of different things, not just advanced ignition timing. However, good point about the balancer possibly not being accurate and could have slipped. That is possible. Owner would have to find true top dead center with a piston stop tool and degree wheel, then remark the balancer accordingly, if it was found to be inaccurate.
That's what I said above.

Maybe he could set it with the vacuum gauge method. I've found it accurate to within 2* on my engine.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 06:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIPPEDITOVER View Post
...Owner would have to find true top dead center with a piston stop tool and degree wheel, then remark the balancer accordingly, if it was found to be inaccurate.
I honestly don't relish the idea of tearing into this thing.
engine and transmission internals scare the daylights out of me. It's all Black Magic inside those things.

With the luck I have had with it, once I do that it will be down all summer.

I will do some reading up and when I get back from vacation look into the vacuum gauge method.

It may be that a rebuild or engine swap is the only way I am going to get this thing running correctly.....
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Unread 05-07-2013, 06:18 AM   #19
Matt1981CJ7
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I see your distributer is hooked to ported vac.

What is connected to the manifold port just below it?

Matt
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Unread 05-07-2013, 07:00 AM   #20
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You don't have to "tear into the engine" to find TDC.

I'm on my phone so I can't type a huge explanation, but a small wooden dowel through the #1 spark plug hole will get you there.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #21
swatson454
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I agree with the guys that you need to verify TDC and go from there.

Finding TDC


Shawn

Edit: That Holley might have a stronger ported signal than the original carb. Have you tried manifold vacuum to eliminate that possibility?
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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:17 AM   #22
2Xtreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
I see your distributer is hooked to ported vac.

What is connected to the manifold port just below it?

Matt
Matt

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't know the difference between ported and manifold vac.

Which manifold port are you referring to?
I tried to get an all inclusive photo of the carb and vac lines.
Unfortunately, I deleted the other pics that I took.

Any information you can give me to help answer your question?
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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:27 AM   #23
Matt1981CJ7
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In this pic, you see both the Timed Spark port (ported vacuum), and the full manifold port just below it.

It appears you have something connected to the manifold port, but I can't tell what.

Matt
66572747.jpg  
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Unread 05-07-2013, 09:17 AM   #24
2Xtreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
...It appears you have something connected to the manifold port, but I can't tell what.
Dang!
The ONE hose that I can't see in any of the photos I have....
I'll keep looking to see if I can figure it out....
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Unread 05-07-2013, 11:41 AM   #25
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To use a piston stop tool one only need remove a spark plug, no engine dis-assembly required. Take an old spark plug and knock the guts out of the center, put a bolt through it. Screw a nut on the bolt to hold it tightly in position through the plug. Round off the end of the bolt so it doesn't damage the piston when it makes contact. That's a piston stop tool. Or save time and buy one from summit racing for 9 bucks.

It's best to get help from someone experienced to do this procedure finding true TDC. It would be easy to damage the piston because you have to rotate the engine back and forth against the piston stop tool. Go too fast or too hard against the stop tool and damage the piston, then it's rebuild time.

A degree wheel is also attached to the front of the crank. You turn the engine over one direction till it stops against the piston stop tool. Make a mark on the degree wheel. Now rotate the engine the opposite direction till it stops against the stop tool. Make a second mark. True top dead center is found between your two marks on the degree wheel. That it all there is to it. Nothing fancy, but you must be careful.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 11:53 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
That's what I said above.

Maybe he could set it with the vacuum gauge method. I've found it accurate to within 2* on my engine.
Vacuum method might work. I've heard so many different opinions on it in favor and against. One thing I've heard over and over is setting timing with a vacuum gauge typically results in over advanced ign timing. You end up backing off timing to get rid of pinging anyhow. I personally don't use the vacuum method. I set camshaft and ign timing to manufacturer specs.

You know these old low compression engines are not so finicky about timing. You could be off 3 degrees and would never know it.

Someone mentioned earlier to check the mechanical advance springs in the dizzy to see if they are ok. That was a good suggestion.

The dizzy's vacuum advance definitely should be hooked to manifold vacuum.

Ported vacuums purpose when it was conceived was to try to reduce hydrocarbon emissions at idle by retarding ign timing at idle. Once the throttle plates open past the ported vacuum hole in the throat of the carb, that ported vacuum nipple acts exactly the same way as manifold vacuum. It's an emissions thing.

I still go back to the air/fuel ratio. Supposedly a mechanic already looked at this ignition timing.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #27
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a mechanic might checked the timing but did he check to see if the balancer was in the correct spot?
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Unread 05-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #28
TIPPEDITOVER
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It's alot easier to check float levels and jet sizes than to find true TDC, especially if you don't already have a stop tool and degree wheel. Besides, carb tuning is just basic stuff that should be done.

If that was the stock carb on there, I wouldn't be as concerned, however it's an aftermarket Holley which probably hasn't been set up for that engine yet. I know what I would do first.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #29
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Busy day here at work, but I have been doing some reading and digging through pics. So here's some info, and questions.

When we installed the carb the floats were set and to be honest the thing ran great (then).

Matt: I haven't found any pics showing where that vac line goes but hope to swing by and snap a few pics to post before leaving town.

Tipped: is there room to use a degree wheel with the motor in the engine compartment? I have only ever seen them used on TV, on a fresh build.

John Strenk: Is there a specific vacuum gauge I need for this? Or one that is best suited for this and other uses?
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Unread 05-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #30
swatson454
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Did you check the link I posted on finding TDC? A degree wheel is not needed and the whole thing can be done accurately to the degree by a novice. If I can do it three sheets to the wind, you can do it standing on your head


Shawn

Edit: Just ignore that long-winded junk that got posted on there.
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