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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:49 AM   #1
turkish6
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Help diagnose T4 issue

Hey Everyone,

So I have not been looking forward to dealing with this issue but it has to be done. I have a T4 in my CJ8 and here is what's going on. When I shift into first I have no issues except some finesse to slide it in (I have heard this is normal). First into second slides in perfect. Second into third heavy grinding unless I hold down the clutch for a few seconds and then very slowly and gently slide into third. When I do this I get no grinding. Same goes for third to fourth. Now when I am downshifting I get even worse grinding into third and no matter how slowly I downshift it always grinds. Third to second and second to first is no issues. Reverse I sometimes get grinding but I have heard this is common as well. My clutch is not slipping but I do get some body shake when I take off in first. Also when upshifting into third or fourth, it almost sounds like something is loose. As if the grinding is accompanied with some rattling noise. Once I am in gear everything is solid and drivers and sounds great.

I have drained and replaced the fluid. I am not sure what the PO used but I refilled with 80 weight gl4.

I know it's recommended to ditch the T4 for a T176. I would love to do this but being in Turkey it's not as easy to come by. I am currently trying to locate one but it's not looking good. So right now I have to fix this one. When I eventually find a T176 I will do the swap.


I am thinking maybe if the PO's did not sure the correct oil and damaged the synchronizing rings...... what do you guys think?

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Unread 01-27-2014, 11:00 AM   #2
LumpyGrits
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How much free play do you have in your clutch pedal?
You want about 1-1 1/4 inch at most.
The oil you used is not the best for a T4.
Can you find a synthetic 75W90 gear oil?
How many miles on this T4?
Good luck,
LG
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Unread 01-27-2014, 12:01 PM   #3
turkish6
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I should be able to find that oil.

Miles are unknown. The PO said the originally tranny replaced with this one.

What do you mean by free play? Is this when I first press on the pedal?
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Unread 01-27-2014, 12:12 PM   #4
LumpyGrits
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Free play is where you measure from the pedal to when you just feel the pedal build resistance.
LG
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Unread 01-27-2014, 01:39 PM   #5
turkish6
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In that case I would say I have about 1 inch of free play
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Unread 01-27-2014, 01:49 PM   #6
walkerhoundvm
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Third gear is the death link in the T4 chain - I don't know what it is about that tranny, but it is what it is. I would say a rebuild is necessary - can you get the parts/kit and tools to do that over there?
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Unread 01-27-2014, 02:58 PM   #7
LumpyGrits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish6 View Post
In that case I would say I have about 1 inch of free play
See what the syn gear oil does.
Pedal freeplay will decrease as the clutch friction plate wears.
LG
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Unread 01-27-2014, 03:35 PM   #8
turkish6
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Depending on the weight of a rebuild kit I may be able to have my parents bring it with them when they visit. As far as tools go, i can find a shop that specializes in American cars to rebuild it for me for a reasonable price.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 03:37 PM   #9
turkish6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits
See what the syn gear oil does. Pedal freeplay will decrease as the clutch friction plate wears. LG
I will try this.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:53 PM   #10
walkerhoundvm
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Sounds like a good conservative plan all things considered. I hope it helps or at least gets you by until you can repair/replace. At least if it is the gear, it's taking its time, my 3rd gear dropped on me in the middle of main street.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 11:53 PM   #11
turkish6
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Does anyone know what the parts compatibility of a T4 is. Does it need to be specific parts or do other tranny parts work with it. My reason for asking is, if I were to take it to a local transmission shop would they be able to mix and match parts to rebuild it. Turkish mechanics are pretty innovative and creative lol. Parts are often made if an original can't be found or if it's pricey. The only thing is you need to be with them every step of the way making sure they aren't cutting corners.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 03:52 AM   #12
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Turkish6, I'm willing to send you some clocking rings and syncros if that is the problem, and it sounds like it is, in the mail to Turkey. As long as the US Post Office allows and you foot the bill for shipping.

I have left over parts from a rebuilding my T4 trans a few years ago and I know I have the clocking rings and syncros from my original still in a box. There's wasn't really anything wrong with them to begin with but since I had purchased a complete rebuild kit, I changed them anyway. That T4 has since been sold in favor of a T5 with the Overdrive.

I have shipped other small parts to a few others in the past that live on the other side of the pond, like Germany, France and Italy without problems and it doesn't cost too much. Heavy parts, that's another story and wouldn't be able to do it if you wanted a counter shaft or something.

Let me know and I can see what I have in my inventory.

By the way, you should fill out your profile so others know what type of CJ you have. Perhaps you have larger diameter tires and low differential gears that is causing the T4 transmission to fail. Very common and no type of fluid change would able to fix.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 07:51 AM   #13
walkerhoundvm
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I hope it works out - are you APO/FPO Turk? I know when I tried to ship something to a domestic Turkish address, it was extremely cost prohibitive. Mainland Europe was manageable, but Turkey was astronomical.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 09:11 AM   #14
turkish6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith460 View Post
Turkish6, I'm willing to send you some clocking rings and syncros if that is the problem, and it sounds like it is, in the mail to Turkey. As long as the US Post Office allows and you foot the bill for shipping.

I have left over parts from a rebuilding my T4 trans a few years ago and I know I have the clocking rings and syncros from my original still in a box. There's wasn't really anything wrong with them to begin with but since I had purchased a complete rebuild kit, I changed them anyway. That T4 has since been sold in favor of a T5 with the Overdrive.

I have shipped other small parts to a few others in the past that live on the other side of the pond, like Germany, France and Italy without problems and it doesn't cost too much. Heavy parts, that's another story and wouldn't be able to do it if you wanted a counter shaft or something.

Let me know and I can see what I have in my inventory.

By the way, you should fill out your profile so others know what type of CJ you have. Perhaps you have larger diameter tires and low differential gears that is causing the T4 transmission to fail. Very common and no type of fluid change would able to fix.

That is extremely kind of you and I may take you up on the offer once I verify that my issue is indeed the syncros.

I am currently running 31's and don't plan on go any bigger because this is and hopefully will be my DD for a long while. I am not sure of my differential gears because I could not find a tag on the front and need to clean up the rear to find the stamp on my amc 20. I am assuming it's still stock
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Unread 01-28-2014, 09:15 AM   #15
turkish6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkerhoundvm View Post
I hope it works out - are you APO/FPO Turk? I know when I tried to ship something to a domestic Turkish address, it was extremely cost prohibitive. Mainland Europe was manageable, but Turkey was astronomical.
I don't know how to do a multiple quote sorry I am not APO or FPO and you are correct shipping to Turkey is a pain on the receivers end. There are a few tricks I have learned over the years of sending items myself to Turkey when I lived in the states.
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