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Unread 12-25-2008, 05:33 PM   #1
1Rustycj5
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HELP!! dana 44 4.56 gear swap!!!

Im really good at convincing myself into things ive never done before. Also Im kinda ignorant especially when doing things like overhauls and gear swaps.

I just need to know if im doing something wrong or im just worrying too much.

I recently got some aussie lockers and a usa gear 4.56 ring and pinion set. I put the aussie in without any problems (except for the carrier clearance thing but theres nothing that a die grinder cant fix) and today I went after the ring and pinion and everything was smooth sailing on till i tried to spin the carrier and the only way it would spin was if i moved the pinion with my hand. otherwise it would lock up and didn't seem quite right so i looked at some diagrams and i decided to put a shim or two between the gear head and the inner pinion bearing and when i put it all back together it was fine ontill I noticed that the pinion was too close to the carrier and thats the way it sets currently and Im not sure the backlash is correct ether.

So please post up some links or just tell me what im doing wrong please because I really dont want to make this a bigger problem then it really is. And I really want to finish the driveline/suspension part of this project SOON!!

Marten,

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Unread 12-25-2008, 06:16 PM   #2
80cj
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For starters, you might want to start with the original inner pinion bearing shim thickness. This seems to be a good starting point and you're usually able to obtain the correct pinion depth + or - a few thousandths of the original shim thickness. When setting up a pinion, I forget about the preload shims and usually tighten down on the pinion nut till I get about 12 inch lbs or so rotating torque. I use the old nut for setup saving the new nut for final setup. Oil the pinion threads when your setting up with the old nut or there may be a remote chance of the nut seizing to the pinon threads possibly ruining the pinion. Set your backlash at about .007 or.008. Everytime you make a pinion depth adjustment, reset the backlash to this setting until you get a good pinion depth pattern. Once you get good pinion depth you can work on pattern heel/toe positioning by adjusting the backlash.

It would save you a lot of headache if you made yourself some setup bearings for the carrier since the Dana 44 has it's side bearing adjustment shims located under the carrier bearings. Setup bearings can be made from used bearings that are still in good shape. Use a sanding drum to relieve the bearing a few thousandths so that the bearing will slip on and off the carrier bearing journal by hand. This saves you the headache of having to pull bearings off with a puller everytime you want to make an adjustment. The setup bearings will get you close. When you're at that point, put your new bearings on. there willprobably be some adjusting required but not much.

Some people make setup bearings for the pinion also but I personally have found that unnecessary and a lot of extra work.

During setup, set the carrier in the housing with zero endplay and don't bother preloading the carrier bearings. Preloading comes as sort of a final step after you've obtained a good mesh pattern and ready to install the new bearings in place of the setup bearings.

Post pictures of your patterns.
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Unread 12-25-2008, 07:15 PM   #3
1Rustycj5
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I am really confused about how to shim the carrier bearing witch im sure needs to be done because the ring gear needs to be closer to the pinion because ive already shimmed the pinion to the point that it actually hit the carrier.

Can you give me a link or something with pictures because i cant make heads or tails of what this stupid Yukon manual is trying to tell me.

Thanks for your help

Marten
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Unread 12-25-2008, 07:28 PM   #4
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yeah you need to take the bearings and shim accordingly to the side that needs to come closer. hence you will also have to shim the other side to meet. Your backlash should not be more than 8
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Unread 12-25-2008, 09:37 PM   #5
1Rustycj5
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alright that's what Ive heard from other sources also. how should i go about taking the bearings off of the carrier without harming it?

Marten
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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:12 AM   #6
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As I mentioned in my earlier post, the best starting point for pinion position is to start with the same thickness shims pack as was originally there. If the pinion is hitting the carrier, the pinion shim pack thickness is too thick and the pinion is too far back in the housing. Remove shims from the inner pinion bearing cup so that the pinion can move out toward the U joint yoke.

To remove the carrier bearings, you need a diffrential side bearing puller such as this one by Snap On. Perhaps there is some place in your area that you can rent one from. A 2 Jaw puller and a bearing separator will also work.


As far as correct shimming of the carrier bearings, as I stated in my earlier post, it would be best to have setup bearings for the carrier. Shim the carrier so that you have no endplay (side play). Once you have established that, move shims from one side to the other until you have .007 to .008 backlash between the ring and pinion. Then torque your carrier bearing caps to spec, paint the gear teeth and take a pattern.

Do you have all the necessary tools such as Ft. Lb. and In. Lb. (dial or beam type for the In. Lb.) torque wrenches, dial indicator and micometers or dial calipers?
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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:47 AM   #7
1Rustycj5
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alright thanks for restating what you already said. I do have all of the tools required to do this.

But i dont have a set of warn/used bearings just lying around because these bearings are fairly new and were replaced by the PO. All i need to do is take out those shims that i put between the bearing cup and gear head and shim the carrier to spec. Then do the bearing preload on the pinion shaft bearings. but how do i check the preload on the carrier bearings?

Hopefully I don't run into any more snags but if I do ill be sure to come streight here

Thanks again,
Marten
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Unread 12-26-2008, 01:49 AM   #8
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For purposes of setup, don't bother with installing the preload shims on the pinion. Instead, just tighten down on the pinion nut until you get roughly 12 in lbs or so of rotating torque. When you finally arrive at a good pattern, then you will preload with shims using the new nut.

Did you buy an installation kit with new bearings or are you reusing the old bearings? If reusing old bearings, how much mileage do yo have on them? Setting up carrier bearings and adjusting backlash without setup bearings is going to be a pain and you will be mangling shims as you pull the bearings to make adjustments.

As far as preloading the carrier bearings, it is zero end play plus .015" for a Dana 44. As I stated earlier, for setup, use only enough shims under your carrier bearings so there is zero end play in the carrier. The carrier should be a slip fit in the housing. When you arrive at a good pattern, you add .015 worth of shims under the bearings to get your preload....(007 on one side and .008 on the other side).

Do you know anyone that has experience with ring and pinion work? This is something that needs to be done correctly or you stand a good chance of ending up with noisy gears.

Last edited by 80cj; 12-26-2008 at 02:07 AM.. Reason: added: Carrier should be a slip fit in housing.
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Unread 12-26-2008, 01:26 PM   #9
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Ok thank you again I dont know anyone around that has done this before but when i go back to school I leave after 3rd hour to go to a vo-tec program and there's a class there called auto tech (im in the collision repair) and im sure i could talk to the teacher and possibly have him do it right for free.

Would you recommend this?
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Unread 12-26-2008, 01:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Rustycj5 View Post
Ok thank you again I dont know anyone around that has done this before but when i go back to school I leave after 3rd hour to go to a vo-tec program and there's a class there called auto tech (im in the collision repair) and im sure i could talk to the teacher and possibly have him do it right for free.

Would you recommend this?
Would be good if you could get him to work with you on the project then you could learn also. The Dana 44 sets up like any other rearend but it's a pain in the butt because of the shim locations.

Did you get a complete installation kit with shims, seals, bearings, etc.? I understand you bought Yukon gears?
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Unread 12-26-2008, 01:44 PM   #11
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No i must of stated it wrong I got usa alloys 4.55 gears and a yukon install kit that came with a load of shims some marking compound and a oil slinger no new bearings

The bearings are relatively new (about 2000) miles on them. So i figured that theirs no reason to get new ones.
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Unread 12-26-2008, 07:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Rustycj5 View Post
No i must of stated it wrong I got usa alloys 4.55 gears and a yukon install kit that came with a load of shims some marking compound and a oil slinger no new bearings

The bearings are relatively new (about 2000) miles on them. So i figured that theirs no reason to get new ones.
You stated it correctly, I just didn't read closely enough. My bad.
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Unread 12-27-2008, 09:27 PM   #13
1Rustycj5
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Hey I did all of the recomended to fix backlash and Im still having NO luck!

I took both of the bearings off of the carrier and too some off of the right side and moved them to the left side then pressed the bearings back on and once i checked the backlash it was like 29 or so.

I did the same thing except i moved all of the shims to the left side and that made it about 27 then because i didn't have any more shims i took the pinion out and put 1 of the thick shims between the gear and the bearing cup. that made it like 17. Then I did the same thing but I put a total of 2 in the same spot (there was 3 when it started to contact the carrier And that one more didn't do anything.

So WHAT DO I DO NOW!! There doesn't seem to be any options except to grind down the bearing seat or something.

Please help me or just point out anything I did wrong.

Thank you for all of your help!
Marten,
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Unread 12-27-2008, 11:11 PM   #14
1Rustycj5
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Ok tell me what you think about this

I did a little research and there are different carriers for the dana 44 differential And I simply ordered the wrong set of gears for the carrier that i want to run.

The ring gear needs to be thicker to compensate for the smaller pinion, thats why I had all of these problems..................

Well at least well know for next time
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Unread 12-27-2008, 11:19 PM   #15
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So the previous gear ratio was 3.73 and down? If so, yeah, you have to get the 3.92 and up carrier to run 4.56 gears. A bare open carrier doesn't cost that much.
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