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Unread 07-03-2011, 10:12 AM   #1
JeepHammer
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1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Heavy Duty Winch Install With 'Extras'...

REMEMBER TO CHECK THIS TREAD FREQUENTLY,
I'M UPDATING AS FAST AS I FINISH SOMETHING, I POST IT.

There are changes all the time no matter if anyone makes any new posts or not...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want my 'Winch' to do more than just pull the vehicle, so this install WILL NOT be for everyone!

In my case,
I want the extra battery to WORK for it's living,
I need to burn welding rods on the trail,
I need to get myself out of a 'Stuck' that might be REALLY BAD,
I want to 'Lend Power' to guys working on the trail or in camp,
I want the battery power to be accessible without prying up the hood every time,
I want to power up my camp devices, fans, lights, radios, ect.

EVERYTHING IN THE WINCH CIRCUIT MUST BE "UP-SIZED" SO THE WINCH DOESN'T GET STARVED FOR CURRENT!

Someone just using batteries for starting won't have these issues and won't need the LARGE cables, Usually 4 AWG is PLENTY for staring, charging, low draw accessories like Jump Staring, winches, ect.

But since this winch will draw up to 500+ Amps at 'Full Pull', I want to make SURE it doesn't starve for current and burn the motor up!

Notice EVERYTHING in the winch circuit from batteries to winch motor will be LARGE SIZE, capable of taking the full demand of the winch.




The cable I'm starting with is 2/0 (00 American Wire Gauge) and it's FINE STRAND welding cable.
Fine strand cable conducts more current, welding cable has better 'Rubberized' insulation that resists chemicals, oils, ultraviolet light and abrasion better than 'Vinyl' insulated 'Battery Cable'.




On the LEFT IS #1 AWG 'BATTERY' CABLE WITH VINYL INSULATION.

On the RIGHT IS 2/0 (00) AWG WELDING CABLE WITH RUBBERIZED INSULATION.

-----------------



This is the Old vs. New.

4 AWG on the LEFT, used for starting, jumping, snow plow, 'Lend Power', ect.
2/0 (00) AWG on the RIGHT,

Enough to power up the winch in full pull, capable of delivering about 500 Amps to the winch (without the resistance of the connector, which cuts the deliver back to about 250 Amps, but with TWO batteries delivering 250 Amps, I'm back up to about 500 Amps with TWICE the winch time)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next big decision is battery clamps.
Solid copper, plated, CRIMP ON battery terminals with stainless Steel 'Battery' bolts & nuts are the best way to do things I've seen.




This battery shot shows both the large battery terminal clamps,
And the heavy duty 'Eye' terminals for industrial applications like Big Trucks & Heavy Equipment.


I will only be using the heavy battery terminal clamps for the larger contact patch that will transfer more amperage.
If I were just staring the vehicle, jump starting, ect., I would use the 'Eye' type terminals...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STRIP, CRIMP, SOLDER, SEAL, IN THAT ORDER!

STRIP to the length that fills the connector,

CRIMP for a solid mechanical connection,

SOLDER for an Electrical connection, And for an Environmental Protection Layer,

SEAL with HEAT SHRINK for environmental protection
(and color coding if your cable insulation is all one color like my large cable is...)



THIS IS WHY YOU USE SOLDER & HEAT SHRINK!

Moisture creeped into this crimp only connection and corroded the copper conductor material!
Corrosion IS NOT conductive, so this cable was about useless with the corrosion inside it!







-----------------------



HARD MECHANICAL CRIMP.

-----------------------



SOLDER FOR ELECTRICAL CONNECTION, SILVER BEARING ELECTRICAL SOLDER.

DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER!

-----------------------



HEAT SHRINK ENVIRONMENTAL SEAL AGAINST CORROSION.

----------------------



FINISHED TERMINATION OF CABLES, NOTICE 'GLUE' SEALING HEAT SHRINK TO CABLE INSULATION.

Two more things to notice,

The Positive and Negative terminals of batteries are different sizes, these high quality clamps are the correct size for those terminals, Not a 'One size fits nothing',

And since the heavy welding cable I'm using is all 'Black', the Heat Shrink shows polarity of the cables.


----------------------

This shows the connector terminals installed in the same fashion,
Insertion in the connector determines Polarity of the connector, so PAY ATTENTION when you insert the terminals in the connectors!



This is the Connector Terminals Ready For Install into the connector,
STRIPPED, CRIMPED, SOLDERED, AND HEAT SHRINK INSTALLED.
The heat shrink here is for Polarity Identification since with 'Lend Power' batteries, you never know what the guy getting the battery knows!
(Helping strange people is sometimes more difficult than you would imagine!)

I'm using GRAY connectors for 12 volt current,
I'll use RED to show 24 volt current for welding, powering 24 volt appliances, ect.




ONE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST CORROSION,
FILLING THE CONNECTOR AND BOOT WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE SO THE WATER (Rain, Splashing under hood) DOES NOT RUN DOWN THE CABLES AND GET INTO THE CONNECTOR...

The 'GRAY' connector means this will be a 12 Volt Battery connection, suitable for 'Lend Power' or for connection to the Jeep Harness for starting, winch, ect.



Here is a completed set with high amperage connectors (SB 350 Amp),
Heat Shrink in place,
Connector 'Condoms' for an added line of defense,
Filled with dielectric grease for the last line of defense,

And with pull handle installed for the 'Lend Power' battery since it will be getting yanked out for use elsewhere.
The handle keeps people from pulling on the cables.
Not necessary in most cases, but handy to have.

------------------------------

COMMON SENSE BATTERY HOOK UP.

First thing is to CLEAN THE TERMINALS!
Both the battery and the cables!



Wire Brush, Emery Cloth, Terminal Scraper, Doesn't matter, but the terminals MUST be clean to transfer amperage!

I start with the cables by putting a dose of CORROSION PROTECTION ON THE BOTTOM SIDE of the terminals, the place most terminals corrode like crazy from because it's HIDDEN when you service.



Then I use a reamer or emery cloth to clean off the interior of the cable terminals so they make good contact.
The advantage of a terminal reamer is, even if the terminal is badly pitted/corroded, it will restore the shape of the battery terminal inside the connector.



Once the terminals are on the battery post and TIGHT, Then make sure you give them another does of corrosion protection.



DO NOT neglect the space where the two halves of the clamp show the terminal, the bolt and nut, and where the battery post enters the battery case!

A two battery set, One 'Lend Power' battery, one Primary battery ready to install.

Notice the top threaded terminals on these deep cycle batteries were left exposed?
You will find out why very shortly...
Remember, the 'Lend Power/Secondary' battery is there for more than moral support or to add weight to the front of the vehicle!

We are going to make it WORK!



Your basic home made dual battery tray...
The only 'Features' are the batteries go in 'Endways' instead of side ways,
And they have a quick release to turn the 'Lend Power' battery loose in a hurry.



And the dual batteries in the tray.

Notice the batteries set in the tray 'END WAYS'
The OUTSIDE battery (Secondary, or 'Lend Power' battery) is NOT under the grill support rod so it comes out easily.

Between the quick disconnect and the quick release in the battery tray, it takes about 10 seconds to get the Secondary/'Lend Power' battery out making it VERY HANDY when I need it.



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Unread 07-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #2
JeepHammer
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This is your basic 'Parts Store' replacment Starter Relay ('Solenoid')...

Notice the STEEL side terminals that are supposed to conduct the large electrical load?
Those should be 'Brass' or 'Copper' if it were a high amperage load Relay...




Also notice the RUST on all the terminals!
This rust reduced current travel, contact patch, increases resistance to current transfer, and generally causes problems.

This was in service for less than 6 months,
The customer complaint was 'Dragging Starter',
So I load tested the cables at the starter.

This rusted piece of 'China' crap couldn't pass more than 75 Amps without heating up!

A 'Proper' Starter Relay will pass about 320 Amps when it has brass side terminals and good contactors inside...

Even at 320 Amps, I'm going to need TWO of the good ones to pass enough current for my winch to run off ONE battery (In the event the 'Primary' battery is dead or missing, used for something else) since the winch requires about 500 Amps in full pull.

------------------------------------------

Here is another problme spot on a lot of high amperage installs...

The surface area of these 'Tubing' contacts, ON THE LEFT,
(A piece of tubing, usually copper, is flattened at one end, then a hole punched in it)...

The surface area of the contact is TOO SMALL to pass any real current,
Then since these are 'Singles', you have to STACK two on the same terminal.

The 'Stack' is too little surface area to conduct the type of amperage I'm going to need,

And the tubing type connectors let MOISTURE into the cable if you don't solder the INSIDE of the connection...

Remeber to solder the tubing SHUT before you use the tubing type connectors to keep the water out!




The 'Solution' is the terminals on the RIGHT...
LARGE contact patches to conduct current.
BLIND CABLE HOLES that don't allow moisture into the connection.


-------------------------------------------------

NEW PARTS!

350 Amp Anderson Quick Connects for the batteries and my Jumper/Welding from the Batteries,
And the good Relays for Starter/Winch Secondary Battery Isolation.



So now I'm off to the garage to make up the Buss that will connect the Relays,
And work on the Cables/Connectors that will allow me to Weld/Pull A Battery or Plug In The Front of the vehicle for Snow Plow, Jump Start, Run My Inverter, ect.

--------------------------------

Now that I have reasonable amperage passing relays,
It's off to build the buss bars that will pass current without having a ton of cables with big, thick connectors to pass the current through a reasonable size contact surface area.



Buss & Relay Layout, PRIMARY SIDE.

I need about 3/4" to 1" of contact patch area, and buss wide enough to handle up to 500 Amps.
Some rough testing said 3/16" thick Copper would do the job,
but I needed to keep the WINCH relays close together so I didn't torture the buss trying to pass up to 500 Amps from the secondary battery.



BUSS ROUGH LAYOUT, SECONDARY SIDE.

Since what I had laying around was 2" wide, I used it to make TWO of the buss types I needed,



With some cutting (Saws All) and some Filing, the Primary Buss & Secondary Buss turned Out 'Serviceable',
If you want 'Pretty', then order them premade and spend a FORTUNE!



When you drill you holes, MOCK UP, MARK THE HOLES,
Then MOCK UP AND CHECK/CORRECT EACH HOLE BEFORE YOU DRILL IT!

The buss will create somewhat of an optical illusion, so keep checking everything as you go...



And be aware that cutting/drilling dead soft copper is no picnic!
Dead soft copper LOVES to ball up in the saws, drills, produces a LOT of heat, and if you use a grinder to cut things, remember copper doesn't scale off the wheel, it will fly off in ALL DIRECTIONS, SO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SAFETY GLASSES THAT FIT!



The next 'Hurdle' is 'Contact Patch' or surface area of the connections.
Those little steel nuts aren't ideal, so to increase contact patch and to reduce wear & imprinting on the dead soft copper, I 'm using a little reinforcement that will help with both issues.



Using large contact surface area terminals will spread the amperage load out, so that's one way to do things, but you still have to deal with the 'Stud' terminals on the relays.

A 1982 or older penny will be about 95% copper, so for 1 you can have a large contact copper 'Washer' to help spread the load out and be a sacrificial material for the steel contacts to mash the crap out of.
Grab your drill and go to town!

I also solder them to the outside nuts to help conduct current through the nut to the terminal bolt.



Contact/Crush Face and Reinforcement in place and corrosion free...
Some pennies on the outside will do the same thing, just remember to add some ANTI-CORROSION between layers/terminals...

Cleaning up those pennies in a little White Vinegar for 20 or 30 minutes, but clean off well before you use them!
DO NOT allow any of that Vinegar to get into the solder joint or the solder won't stick to anything very well!

--------------------------------------------

Want to see what all this work is for?

Primary Starter & Secondary Starter Relays On The Ends,
Winch Second Battery & Self Rescue 'Emergency' Relays In the Middle,



Secondary Side Done.
Lend power battery/connector ready to pull at a moment's notice,
AND still capable of delivering 350 Amps to the winch or Self Jump Start with a flip of a dash switch.

The coiled smaller 'Red' wire is the secondary battery feed to the 'Emergency' switch.
Doesn't make much sense to try and power up the self rescue relays with the DEAD battery,

SO, power up the emergency switch with the Isolated Second Battery!




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Unread 07-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #3
JeepHammer
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This is the beginning of the 'Extras' that I like to make my Jeep do for me.

This is a 12 volt, full amperage connector on the front of the vehicle.
It's plenty for running my 110 Volt AC Inverter when I need AC power for tools, lights, ect.
It's plenty for plugging in Jumper Cables without raising the hood,
It's plenty for plugging in the Snow Blade Hydraulic Pump/Controls in the winter, Ect.






This is the rubber 'Dust Cover' for that connector in place.
Keeps the worst of the crud, mud, water, ect. out of the connector when it's not being used.




I DO NOT use covers on connectors that stay plugged in all the time, like the battery to harness connectors,
I DO NOT use covers on most of the 'Tools' I have since they are not exposed to mud/crud/water, ect. on a regular basis.
At about $3 each, you *Could* use covers on everything, but I don't see any point if they aren't exposed directly to mud/crud.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how the 'Lend Power' works...

*IF*... The Jumper Cables can reach from the front of the vehicle, I just plug into the front of the Jeep at the connector.


*WHEN*... The Jumper Cables aren't long enough, I pull a battery from the battery rack (Quick Release Battery & Cables) and carry the Battery/Jumpers to the work.





The longer the Jumpers, the less power that will transfer, so super long Jumpers aren't very practical since you won't get enough power though them anyway...
Taking the battery to the work with reasonable size Jumpers make a Lot More Sense.






--------------------
[B]
For those of you wondering about the difference between Anderson SB-175, 175 Amp connectors and Anderson SB-350, 350 Amp connectors,
Here is the difference,



This winch requires around 220 Amps when pulling a Jeep with locked wheels on gravel, and you *Might* be winching with one battery,
So I'm installing 350 Amp Quick Connects.
With both batteries in the Jeep, they will deliver 700 Amps, so that's enough to feed the winch in a full pull.


-----------------------------------------------

IDIOT PROOF YOUR CABLES!

The connectors are 'Idiot Proof' if you assemble them correctly, but other parts aren't.

If your Jumper Clamps are the same lenght, they can EASILY get against each other and short out causing problems/sparks!




By shortening one cable a little (The length of the clamp) the two can't easily meet, and that stops a Lot of problems.

-------------------

To WELD off your batteries, you have to disconnect BOTH batteries and REWIRE them in 'SERIES' so they produce 24 Volts...
This takes Quick Disconnects on BOTH batteries, not just the 'Lend Power' battery.

I build a 'SERIES YOKE' that adapts the batteries to welding.




This Series Yoke produces 24 Volts from two 12 Volt batteries, and it also MANUALLY disconnects your vehicle from the batteries so you don't fry electronics while welding on your own vehicle.

Since my Jumpers are 4 AWG cable, I use my Jumper Cables for light welding, so getting a welding rod to stay in the clamps and make good contact can be a pain in the butt!

The easiest way I've found to keep the welding rod in place is with a couple of little holes drilled in the clamp to secure the rod...


[img]http://www. Welding Adapted Clamp. Pictures Coming.
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Unread 07-03-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
JeepHammer
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BSERK'S WINCH PLATE!

This thing is COOL! Couldn't have been done any better ANYWHERE!
For the price he's charging, you are a FOOL to buy anywhere else!






FULL 1/4" PLATE, Welded in back stop, Front welded and ground for fair lead and Safety Welded,

Side Plates are WONDERFUL,
CAME WITH ALL THE BOLTS, LOCK NUTS, FRAME GUSSETS, ECT.!

----------------------

FINALLY got the plate and frame connectors PAINTED!
70+ Percent Humidity makes painting ANYTHING a SLOW PROCESS!
Cleaners, Primer and Paint just REFUSED TO DRY!



-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------


Winch is here from Warn!

M-8000 although I'm wiring for something larger with 2/0 cables, the M8000 seemed to be a very good fit for what I'm doing right now.

My first impression is very good! The winch is EXACTLY as described, and they are using 2 AWG Automotive cable to feed the winch and from the contactor to motor which is also very good.
I'm going to feed it with larger cable, simply because I have the cable and I want the potential for something larger in the future...




This is like CHRISTMAS!

The reason I picked this winch was the Industrial Grade Contactor instead of "Winch Solenoids",

Which are basically a set of 4 high quality starter relays, which means you are limited to what ever current ONE of the solenoids will pass to the motor... UN ACCEPTABLE!
And Warn is about the only company to do anything about those 'Starter Relays' in a winch system that will draw much more current than a Jeep Starter ever will!

I picked it because it has a STRONGER MOTOR than the other 8,000 pound range winches.
Stronger motor means better pulling power,
Heats up much SLOWER in use,

And I picked it because the brake assembly has been reworked.

Guess what a shock I got when I saw it was manufactured on 14-July-10 and DOES NOT have the industrial contactor, just the regular solenoid pack!




Called Warn service line, told them the reason I purchased this winch was the industrial contactor instead of solenoids...
"Russell" at Warn is checking if he can ship me the industrial contactor for this winch since I got one that was 'Outdated'...

Got a message from Warn, they are sending a call tag, and sending me the Industrial Contactor, the two should cross in the mail! OUTSTANDING SERVICE. Thank you Russell!

--------------------------

The new Warn Contactor is finally here!

MUCH better than solenoids, much more expensive, but less outside contacts, no buss between terminals, crap like that.



With a package this small, I'm sure it's going to go out at the winch, much smaller than the box they sent with the relay version...


I will get rid of these corrosion producing steel parts, Nuts, Lock Washers, Dissimilar metals cause corrosion when mated against each other (Jeep Owners should know that!),
Steel to cast iron, steel bolts in aluminum parts, ect.
Same thing but more so with electrical parts.
(Called Galvanic Corrosion, look it up if you have questions)

Brass or bronze nuts on copper terminals is one thing, but throw in those steel nuts on top, and steel lock washers,
And you are BEGGING for serious HIDDEN corrosion problems.

Solder the terminals and give it some sealing heat shrink instead of that indoor 'Looks Good but does NOTHING' heat shrink that on there...



The 'Hot' battery terminal isn't even marked in 'Red' for full time 'Hot' battery power,
Just some little things that will make this unit a little more 'User Friendly' and corrosion resistant...

I'm sure the winch will appreciate that 2/0 input cable over that long run of 2 AWG wire they used also!

------------------

Image too big to post here without blowing the sides out of the frames...

http://www.civilianjeep.info/Wiring/...orWiring01.gif

This is a link to the Warn Contactor Set wiring and what I *Think* will work for a dash switch arrangment along with the regular remote control...

3 wires from dash to winch contactor and I'm off to the races!

--------------------------

Upon closer inspection,
I'm finding some things I don't like about the Warn.

One point is a 'C' clip is missing from the roller fair lead, one of the axle shafts for the roller keeps falling out on my foot!
These things are pretty heavy to keep cracking me in the foot!
Probably just an oversight since a 'C' clip didn't come in the install kit, but it doesn't say much for quality control at Warn!



The other thing I don't much like is the Fiarlead came with 1/2" holes, but 3/8" bolts were supplied to mount the fairlead.

Another thing is all the mounting hardware is Grade 5 bolts
(Grade 5 bolts,3 line marks on the heads, Grade 8 bolts have 6 line marks on the heads)
And none of it seems to be galvanized against rust forming right away...



You won't catch me using 4 ea. 3/8" bolts in GRADE 5 to mount my winch!
These are getting changed with a quality American made part, something I can verify it's manufacture and rating before the winch takes off on it's own adventure without my Jeep!

------------------------------------
------------------------------------

GOT A 20,000 LBS. Snatch Block from
Pro Mark Offroad today!



This is the single biggest thing you can do for your winch this side of installing a second battery!

This 'Pulley' will DOUBLE your pulling power when the line is doubled and it's just MANDATORY to have if you are REALLY STUCK!
Remember to order a 'Snatch Block' that is rated for TWICE what your winch will produce!

This unit from
Pro Mark Offroad is heavy duty like crazy!
It has 'C' clips holding the axle pin in, MUCH better than cotter pins,
And it has a BRASS GREASE ZERK to keep the axle/pulley lubricated!

I have GREAT CONFIDENCE I will NOT break this one right away!

LINK: 20K Snatch Block
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Unread 07-09-2011, 09:03 AM   #5
misplacetexan
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1) Which winch are you buying?
2) Are you going to use any type of power interrupt to the winch?

I just received my Warn M8000 yesterday. Still need a few more parts before installing my winch. I am currently trying to figure out, how to locate the parts required to interrupt 12 volt power to winch without spending another $100. Thanks for your knowledge. Have been following your winch threads.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 01:09 PM   #6
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Found this on one of the 'China' winch contactor packs,
This is a PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DO, and what to look for when you get a winch...




At first blush, this doesn't look too bad.
When you look a little closer, this is 4 AWG 'Battery Wire' in a long run out to the winch contactor,
And it's 4 AWG. 'Battery Wire' from contactor to motor.

4 AWG AUTOMOTIVE "BATTERY WIRE" IS TOTALLY INADEQUATE FOR A 10,000 POUND RATED WINCH!

--------------------

CLOSER INSPECTION...

I noticed the 'Heat Shrink' is Vinyl, 'Insulation Only' type used on INDOOR ELECTRONICS!



These connections are going to be out in the weather, mud, crud and generally ABUSED!

AN ENVIRONMENTAL SEAL WOULD BE GOOD HERE!
Rubberized Heat Shrink, while not as 'Pretty', with GLUE inside would be a MUCH better deal!

Also notice there is NO SIGN OF SOLDER IN THE CONNECTIONS!
That is VERY CLEAR, Since there is a gaping hole in each of the terminals!



Now remember,
When the terminal gets moisture in it, or the cable gets moisture in it,
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS!



AND CORROSION IS NOT CONDUCTIVE,
ANY CORROSION WILL REDUCE THE LOAD THE CABLE CAN TRANSMIT!

This particular cable was removed from service in less than one year because it would transmit less than HALF the rated amperage it should have!

DON'T DO THIS TO YOUR WINCH!
CRIMP, SOLDER, SEAL!
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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:19 PM   #7
duckbone
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Use continuous duty marine selonoids. They are all metal and you don't melt the posts out of them. You should wire all that up to a pair of D8's in the back
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Unread 07-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckbone View Post
Use continuous duty marine selonoids. They are all metal and you don't melt the posts out of them. You should wire all that up to a pair of D8's in the back
Why BCI Group 8D batteries at 150 lbs. apiece when you are only getting about 2 minutes before the motor reaches thermal critical?

Why use any battery(s) that will produce amperage longer than the battery terminals or winch motor will live?
--------------------

2 ea. of the 24 series batteries will produce enough current for my allotted 2 minutes at full pull, are cost effective, locally available anywhere in the US and most other places,
Won't kill the alternator to charge them, and fit under the hood really nicely...
--------------------

Not the 'Plastic' relay bodies melting,
It's the cheap steel contacts inside melting/carboning over that causes the problems.
Steel has a TON of carbon in it, and it comes right to the top as resistance when you push a lot of current through the terminals, not to mention as the terminal burns away from resistance because some idiot decided to use STEEL on the contacts!

----------------------------

Why Marine Continuous Duty when Continuous duty doesn't pass the current I need?

Primary battery is wired directly, so there aren't any contactor/relay issues there,
The winch uses a 500 Amp industrial contactor, so no issues there,
It's the SECONDARY battery that I have to isolate and needs the 'Relays' to feed the winch in hard pulls...
---------------------

Why Marine Relays when they are neither common or inexpensive in Southern Indiana and you can't pick them up at any parts store here on a Sunday afternoon?

I think these things through simply because I've had these issues in the past, and don't want them in the future.

The 'Premium' grade Starter Relays pass plenty of current in 'Parillel', are MUCH CHEAPER than 'Marine' relays, and are available 10 blocks away at the parts store...
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:07 PM   #9
Lordwrench
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Perfect timing for me, dude
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:56 PM   #10
82KansasCJ
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Ok, what are the "proper" starter relays & where do I find them?
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Unread 07-10-2011, 05:20 PM   #11
JeepHammer
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Ask for 'Premium' when you go to the parts stores,
Look for BRASS side terminals.
If it doesn't have brass side terminals, WALK AWAY,
Look someplace else or order off the internet.

The 'Premium' runs about $2-$5 more, but worth every penny if you intend to have it live under heavy service.

Locally, the 'Replacements' at the discount 'Parts Sores' are running about $20 for steel terminals, (and no, I didn't misspell 'Store')...
While Ebay has Brass terminals for about $10-$12 each.

The local 'Farm Store' had them in bubble packs in the tractor parts section with brass terminals for $12 ea. while the Discount Parts Sore couldn't produce them for any amount of money and wanted over $20 for steel terminal 'China' versions.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 05:31 PM   #12
82KansasCJ
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A quick search of Tractor Supply shows them online for about $20 with brass side terminals. I will look locally and see if they are available. I will use 2 of them (one to replace the cheap arsed one I have now and add one for the dual batt setup).


Again, thanks.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 05:36 PM   #13
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,702
SHAMELESS PLUG!

Keep an eye on the thread, things change, and as I get more done, pictures taken, edited and posted, I'll put them on the thread.

Notice the thread is in 4 or 5 parts or sections,
That's so I can group the stuff without having a HUGE thread that rambles around aimlessly... (Which I'm good at being 'Aimless'...)
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Unread 07-10-2011, 06:35 PM   #14
duckbone
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: merritt island, Florida
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Why BCI Group 8D batteries at 150 lbs. apiece when you are only getting about 2 minutes before the motor reaches thermal critical?

Why use any battery(s) that will produce amperage longer than the battery terminals or winch motor will live?
--------------------

2 ea. of the 24 series batteries will produce enough current for my allotted 2 minutes at full pull, are cost effective, locally available anywhere in the US and most other places,
Won't kill the alternator to charge them, and fit under the hood really nicely...
--------------------

Not the 'Plastic' relay bodies melting,
It's the cheap steel contacts inside melting/carboning over that causes the problems.
Steel has a TON of carbon in it, and it comes right to the top as resistance when you push a lot of current through the terminals, not to mention as the terminal burns away from resistance because some idiot decided to use STEEL on the contacts!

----------------------------

Why Marine Continuous Duty when Continuous duty doesn't pass the current I need?

Primary battery is wired directly, so there aren't any contactor/relay issues there,
The winch uses a 500 Amp industrial contactor, so no issues there,
It's the SECONDARY battery that I have to isolate and needs the 'Relays' to feed the winch in hard pulls...
---------------------

Why Marine Relays when they are neither common or inexpensive in Southern Indiana and you can't pick them up at any parts store here on a Sunday afternoon?

I think these things through simply because I've had these issues in the past, and don't want them in the future.

The 'Premium' grade Starter Relays pass plenty of current in 'Parillel', are MUCH CHEAPER than 'Marine' relays, and are available 10 blocks away at the parts store...
Honestly man the batteries were a joke but doesn't seem you have much of a sense of humor or maybe you didn't get the laughing smilie and trust me I have melted the plastic selonoids before. The two minutes you give yourself well what if you have to do it 4 or 5 times in a row or is 2 minutes your limit and you just shut everything off and call it a day. Nevermind that you overkilled the rest of it why not them too. There is such a thing of overthinking stuff and becoming tunnel visioned, engineers regularly do it, might you be one? BTW West Marine should have those hanging in the store but I guess maybe you don't have them in Indiana either?
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Unread 07-10-2011, 06:48 PM   #15
chet44
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1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northeastern Illinois
Posts: 1,264
Subscribed!
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