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Unread 03-17-2013, 04:00 PM   #76
fourbtgait
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Interesting comment Shawn.

It was a tough decision last month to buy the MSD-6a or to spend it on a DUI.
For me part of that may have been born from all the trouble I had last fall with the TR and my old Motorcraft.
So I did buy the MSD.

But now stuck with what I have lol

Russell

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Unread 03-17-2013, 05:21 PM   #77
gazzo
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Definitely not running down the DUI guys. I know the short drag strip was was not the golden measure by any means but it would be enough to get a good indication of improvement I thought.

As I mentioned I haven't taken it out if the 8 yet and it may well stay there indefinitely. I am looking forward to Easter when I'll be back there and will do a whole lot of dune and soft sand wheeling which is where I think this thing might shine, long, loaded stretches and in the dunes short sharp busts of power for getting those big mofo hills.

When guys have reported amazing and outstanding results by dropping in the DUI I can only think what they had before must have been pretty ordinary, like you said Matt maybe worn out or nearly dead pickup coils and such.

Anyway it's all good, I'm going to put the original diz back in the shiney one and go for a drive after work. Good bad slow fast they're all CJs right and that's the best part

Shawn ill do my plugs too when I go back and let you know how it goes.
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Unread 03-18-2013, 07:52 AM   #78
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
The first thing I noticed with mine was a much better cold start. It had a much smoother and more powerful part-throttle acceleration and upshifts were smooth and crisp. It also leaned out .5 or so on my air/fuel monitor so it was now burning fuel that the Duraspark wasn't. Plugs were cleaner, WOT was better, of course, but that's a given. It wasn't earth-shattering (it's a distributor swap, not a camshaft) but most-definitely worth the money I spent on it.

And all of this was over a re-curved Duraspark with the large cap, rotor... "team rush". Shawn
I would have expected that "smoother and more powerful part-throttle acceleration" and "better WOT" would have translated into better 0-60 times for Gary.

But, maybe I'm missing something.

Matt
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Unread 03-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #79
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7

I would have expected that "smoother and more powerful part-throttle acceleration" and "better WOT" would have translated into better 0-60 times for Gary.

But, maybe I'm missing something.

Matt
I suspect we are.

Gary, did you have it set up on manifold vacuum? Resistor wire out of the loop?


Shawn
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Unread 03-18-2013, 08:45 AM   #80
gazzo
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I think I may have exposed floors elsewhere in the system, with system being the whole engine. The fact that it just ran out of steam with or without the DUI had me a bit stumped. Possibly the stock air cleaner setup, stock Carter carb etc.

So here's an interesting thing I found today when I was putting the original back in my 7 and it will probably make y'all go "geez Gaz, what a dork!" I was setting the initial timing and I have a nice new timing cover with the 4, 8 and 12 degree marks clearly visible. Weeeelll the Overlander don't got that, it's all grubby and largely unreadable so I think I may have been setting up for 8 degrees thinking the marks were 2,4,6 and8. Get where I'm headed? I may have set up for 16 initial!!! No wonder I was getting some pinging on my short beach squirt after I installed the DUI. So maybe that's explaining something to us, sure exposes me as being No1 Boss Dufus. Bit embarrassing.

Anyways I reckon I gotta go back to the drawing board on the 8 with the DUI (with 8 degrees initial). This time though I'm going to do some different comparos. Something like going from cruising at 20k in second then flooring it (WOT) and timing the run up to 50 or 60k. Same again from cruising 3rd at 40 and ruining up to 80. Any other ideas guys?

Footnote: having put the original back in the 7 I actually do think missing the DUI there, quite a bit. AND the hesitation/flat spot/fart accelerating out of a slow corner is back. It disappeared with the DUI.

So feeling lots better about things now. Can't wait for Easter to get back up there and go again
Woot woot
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Unread 03-18-2013, 08:47 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454

I suspect we are.

Gary, did you have it set up on manifold vacuum? Resistor wire out of the loop?

Shawn
Stock vac spot Shawn , assumed ported. Resistor wire? Where is that little fella at?
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Unread 03-18-2013, 06:18 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by gazzo View Post
Stock vac spot Shawn , assumed ported. Resistor wire? Where is that little fella at?
Given the issues you mentioned, I think I'd start from scratch if I were in your shoes.

I'd get a timing tape and piston stop and go through the TDC Procedure to make sure everything lines up for you.

Next would be making sure I had a good, 12V power source to the distributor. I used the large, red wire that originally fed the OEM module. Before you snip anything, make sure that it maintains voltage in both "start" and "run" position from your ignition key. If so, snip it and run it straight over to the distributor. This will ensure that the resistor is out of the loop and you'll be feeding that D.U.I. roughly 13.5 volts when it's running. I'm not sure how yours is wired but my '83 looks like this. If all goes well, you can come back and solder and shrink-tube the connection. The red wire just above the butt connector shot straight down to feed the OEM module.



Lastly, your D.U.I. is set up to run straight manifold vacuum, not ported. Depending on your carb's ported vacuum signal, that may be why you didn't see the results you were hoping for and it could also explain the pinging you heard, aside from the 16* initial advance Having to pull it down to 6* is an indication that something isn't happy, assuming that the timing indicator is accurate.

Let me know if I can help with anything.


Shawn
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Unread 03-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #83
gazzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454

Given the issues you mentioned, I think I'd start from scratch if I were in your shoes.

I'd get a timing tape and piston stop and go through the TDC Procedure to make sure everything lines up for you.

Next would be making sure I had a good, 12V power source to the distributor. I used the large, red wire that originally fed the OEM module. Before you snip anything, make sure that it maintains voltage in both "start" and "run" position from your ignition key. If so, snip it and run it straight over to the distributor. This will ensure that the resistor is out of the loop and you'll be feeding that D.U.I. roughly 13.5 volts when it's running. I'm not sure how yours is wired but my '83 looks like this. If all goes well, you can come back and solder and shrink-tube the connection. The red wire just above the butt connector shot straight down to feed the OEM module.

Lastly, your D.U.I. is set up to run straight manifold vacuum, not ported. Depending on your carb's ported vacuum signal, that may be why you didn't see the results you were hoping for and it could also explain the pinging you heard, aside from the 16* initial advance Having to pull it down to 6* is an indication that something isn't happy, assuming that the timing indicator is accurate.

Let me know if I can help with anything.

Shawn
Thanks Shawn. I might have a mission getting timing tape of here for amc engines. All these jeeps are pretty rare really. I'll have a hunt.
I'll work thru your steps and see how we go. The vac is weak as, and only comes on when revved, I can see the diaphragm working then. My 7 is manifold and and sucks like a new Dyson, pull the timing from 8 up to "out of view" when reconnected.
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Unread 03-18-2013, 06:36 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by gazzo View Post
Thanks Shawn. I might have a mission getting timing tape of here for amc engines. All these jeeps are pretty rare really. I'll have a hunt.
I'll work thru your steps and see how we go. The vac is weak as, and only comes on when revved, I can see the diaphragm working then. My 7 is manifold and and sucks like a new Dyson, pull the timing from 8 up to "out of view" when reconnected.
That's the way it should be hooked up.

The timing tape is generic and available from Summit along with the piston stop or some parts stores can even order it for you for roughly 5 bucks. You just have to measure the balancer diameter and use the correct length tape. You'll probably have to trim the width of the tape to fit the balancer but it's no big deal.


Shawn
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Unread 03-18-2013, 11:43 PM   #85
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Find top dead center and verify its zero on your cover. Advance the line on the harmonic balancer to 10 and draw a white line at zero, advance 10 more degrees and draw another white line.

You will then have 30 degrees marked off. It's a great little trick John mentioned.
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Unread 03-19-2013, 05:51 AM   #86
gazzo
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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L
Find top dead center and verify its zero on your cover. Advance the line on the harmonic balancer to 10 and draw a white line at zero, advance 10 more degrees and draw another white line.

You will then have 30 degrees marked off. It's a great little trick John mentioned.
Hey i was thinking about this, couldn't I put the tape on the HB backwards with zero on the tape level with zero on the timing gear case and then read the advance degrees off the tape at the zero on the case? When I get up in the rev range I just read whatever is next to the zero. Right?
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Unread 03-19-2013, 06:24 AM   #87
Matt1981CJ7
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You can also use a timing mark calculator, like this one, to mark the balancer.

The easiest method is to get a timing light with the adjustable advance feature. Here's the one I use, and it works great.

Matt
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Unread 03-19-2013, 07:05 AM   #88
swatson454
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Originally Posted by gazzo View Post
Hey i was thinking about this, couldn't I put the tape on the HB backwards with zero on the tape level with zero on the timing gear case and then the advance degrees off the tape at the zero on the case? When I get up in the rev range I just read whatever is next to the zero. Right?
Yes but I don't know what you mean by backwards. Eyeball "0" on the indicator and whatever the tape says. Nothing else on the indicator matters when you use a timing tape.

Make sure you use the right product when you clean the balancer to stick the tape on there. I screwed up that simple step by using something that cleaned grease up really well but the tape wouldn't stick to it. Maybe you already know or one of the guys here will know what to use and what not to use. I can't remember but ruining the only correct length tape for your balancer is a bunch of crap, lol.


Shawn
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Unread 03-19-2013, 08:55 AM   #89
gazzo
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Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post

Yes but I don't know what you mean by backwards. Eyeball "0" on the indicator and whatever the tape says. Nothing else on the indicator matters when you use a timing tape.

Make sure you use the right product when you clean the balancer to stick the tape on there. I screwed up that simple step by using something that cleaned grease up really well but the tape wouldn't stick to it. Maybe you already know or one of the guys here will know what to use and what not to use. I can't remember but ruining the only correct length tape for your balancer is a bunch of crap, lol.

Shawn
Hmm I think I was trying to explain exactly what you just said there Shawn. ive never used it ir even heard of it before except for one spot in Matt's or Steve's threads. Sometime words and just don't hit it off.
MEK would be my cleaner of choice for that NOTHING gets left behind after a wipe with that stuff.
Man I just want to get into it, can't believe I have to wait a fortnight before I can have another go.

Think I might keep myself entertained in the meantime and drag out the 360 from under the house. I reckon it's destined for the long jeep sooner or later. now that would be fun in dunes! It was a perfect runner when I took it out of the 7 and stashed it away.it's been warm and dry under there for ten years but I think I'll get a stand and pop the lids and see what's been going on inside. Full rebuild gasket and seal kit would cost what 150 bucks? 2 barrel manifold and 500 Holley might need replacing too if for no reason other than to be a bit more efficient. New flywheel balanced for the V8 too. Didnt know back then that I needed that and she was shaking like a teenager on his first date. Question: is the 360 flywheel going to be the same as any other AMC V8?
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Unread 03-19-2013, 09:21 AM   #90
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Question: is the 360 flywheel going to be the same as any other AMC V8?
No, it's balanced differently than say a 304 flywheel. They look the same from the front, but the 360 has extra weight cast into the back, in a certain spot, for balancing.

Matt
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