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Unread 07-09-2013, 03:56 PM   #1
Alex77cj7
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Full width, soa, and shackle reversal?

Is it recommended? Is it possible to do without using a "kit" from online?

Thanks,
Alex

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Unread 07-09-2013, 04:52 PM   #2
CSP
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You're mixing things that are done for different reasons.

Full width doesn't mean you have to do a spring over swap which doesn't require shackle reversal.

Look at posts about each one individually, weigh the pros vs cons, and decide if one, two, or all of them meet your needs and what you expect out of your CJ.

There is no set pattern or rules on any modifications. It's all about individual wants and needs and what it takes to meet them.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 05:27 PM   #3
Alex77cj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP
You're mixing things that are done for different reasons.

Full width doesn't mean you have to do a spring over swap which doesn't require shackle reversal.

Look at posts about each one individually, weigh the pros vs cons, and decide if one, two, or all of them meet your needs and what you expect out of your CJ.

There is no set pattern or rules on any modifications. It's all about individual wants and needs and what it takes to meet them.
I'm already soa and I'm about to put my full widths I had people tell me not to do soa and shackle reversal with stock axles cause it would be dangerous but a lot of the pics I see of full width axles under cj's online have a shackle reversal... And I know what each one does individually but I've heard mixing soa and shackle reversal could be dangerous...
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Unread 07-09-2013, 06:37 PM   #4
CSP
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Dangerous in what way? Where are you hearing it could be dangerous?

Every 1999-2004 Ford 4x4 Superduty pickup is spring over and has shackle reversal. Why wouldn't it work on a CJ?

Shackle reversal has its pros and cons which you need to educate yourself on if you're considering it, but this is the first I've heard of it being "dangerous".

People might be telling you not to go spring over on stock axles because that in itself isn't a good idea because of the lack of width. That would be true for shackles in the stock position or reversed. You might be incorrectly mixing shackle reversal in with that.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 06:56 PM   #5
lucdog
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Shackle reversal isn't a problem for this friend of mine.

.

image-1329783221.jpg

My CJ 5 is SOA, with RE 1.5" springs in the front , shackles are in the stock location.
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #6
Alex77cj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog
Shackle reversal isn't a problem for this friend of mine.

.

My CJ 5 is SOA, with RE 1.5" springs in the front , shackles are in the stock location.
Thank you. That's what ill do then. Don't I have to move the springs something like one once forward to accommodate for the extra axle movement?
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:15 PM   #7
Alex77cj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex77cj7

Thank you. That's what ill do then. Don't I have to move the springs something like one once forward to accommodate for the extra axle movement?
Inch**

My phone hates me.. Sorry guys
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #8
lucdog
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I'll post a picture of mine tomorrow.

So you can see what it looks like. My 5 has full width axles cut down 4".the rear axle is set back 3.5" from stock. Handles great, I ran it at 70 for 10 miles coming back from a trail in Moab last year, with a mile shot up to 80. One hand on the wheel, the other on the shift lever.
Like CSP said before, the tie rod doesn't need to attached to the hi steer arm. I did mine on the hi steer arm to get it up and out of the way.

CSP, the 3.5 stretch on the rear isn't enough for me to get up Rocker Knocker. And I tried numerous times, tried it straight up as well. No luck there either. The by pass IMO was almost as bad, made it without the winch though.
The guys in our group with 100"+ wheel base didn't have any problems. The other 2 jeeps, a TJ and CJ 7 with 1" longer wheelbases didnt make it either, both lifted 4 or more inches. We all were using 36" or better tires.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:24 PM   #9
CSP
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Move the axle forward? Maybe.

Then you introduce problems like the drag link and tie rod in contact with each other, depending on your steering setup.

All of this is why you need a well defined plan. The devil is in the details.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:40 PM   #10
Alex77cj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP
Move the axle forward? Maybe.

Then you introduce problems like the drag link and tie rod in contact with each other, depending on your steering setup.

All of this is why you need a well defined plan. The devil is in the details.
Which is why I'm asking so many questions. The only reason I asked about moving the axle is cause I noticed some of the kits move the axle forward.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:43 PM   #11
Alex77cj7
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Thanks for all the help you guys. Pics would be greatly appreciated.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #12
lucdog
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I can't help with the shackle reversal, I've not done one.

I will add I use a MORE steering box mount, I don't remember if it moved the box forward. I do know I'm using a stock pitman arm, and my drag link and tie rod don't make contact. They are close though,
If I were to do it all over, I wouldn't change anything, I like my Jeeps to look as much like a Jeep as possible, and with the exception of the Obstacle I mentioned , and 1 other ( don't remember the name, but it's just before the final hill, this is the one I winched on, the jeep may have made it, I didn't have the Testicular fortitude,) on the same trail,(google Prittchett trail) it does everything I need it to do. It has a real good break over angle.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 08:33 PM   #13
Alex77cj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog
I can't help with the shackle reversal, I've not done one.

I will add I use a MORE steering box mount, I don't remember if it moved the box forward. I do know I'm using a stock pitman arm, and my drag link and tie rod don't make contact. They are close though,
If I were to do it all over, I wouldn't change anything, I like my Jeeps to look as much like a Jeep as possible, and with the exception of the Obstacle I mentioned , and 1 other ( don't remember the name, but it's just before the final hill, this is the one I winched on, the jeep may have made it, I didn't have the Testicular fortitude,) on the same trail,(google Prittchett trail) it does everything I need it to do. It has a real good break over angle.

Bill
Thanks so much for all the help. I'm so ready to get these axles under my jeep! Lol
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Unread 07-10-2013, 09:08 PM   #14
lucdog
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.

.

image-2596341644.jpg



image-2422327952.jpg



image-1908823413.jpg



image-3047764172.jpg

Edit, it works pretty good.
how it looks level.

The top 4 pictures were taken today. The last 4 were taken when the Dana 30 was still under the front.
If you look close at the next to last picture you can see I did what your friend did. The only difference was I welded the square metal blocks to the passenger knuckle. I did this knowing the 30 would be changed out after returning home from Moab.
I did not run this configuration at speed on the street. Nor would I suggest doing it on your jeep.

Bill
dscn0770.jpg   dscn0771.jpg   dscn0948.jpg   dscn0776.jpg  
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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