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JK Vent Covers - NalinMFGRing & Pinion's, Lockers, 4340 Axles, Install Kits, BaTJ 5.25" Speaker Adapters - NalinMFG

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Unread 11-01-2011, 02:44 AM   #16
John Strenk
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Does the bleeder loosen up easily? Sometimes you can get some movement out of the Slave cylinder by opening up the bleeder.

Usually they are so rusted they just break off though.

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Unread 11-01-2011, 07:39 AM   #17
lucdog
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Was the thing locked up when you got it?
When I did my drivers front 2 weeks ago, I had pulled it locked up 30 feet on dirt. I did not check the adjuster. It had sat since "09". I removed the wheel/tire, put the lug nuts on to protect the threads, and went at it. Not hard blows, but with some force.

I hit the wheel mount surface, a dozen times or so working around the studs. Then switched to the outer diameter, working around the drum, hit it at least 30 times. Went back to the WMS, and back to the outside.

I then started hitting from the back to knock it off. Twice each at the 2,6, and 10 o'clock positions. After about 10 minutes it was off.

You could see that the shoes were froze to the drum. Cleaned the drum up, (where the shoes rub)

Put the drum back on, turned like new.

I will add, nothing broke ( I was careful ). And was not concerned if the brakes worked after.

Bill
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Unread 11-01-2011, 08:18 AM   #18
mopar346
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Do the drums slide off of these without taking the hub apart or are the swedged to the lugs?
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Unread 11-01-2011, 08:25 AM   #19
John Strenk
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Not attached to the lugs. Should come right off. IF it wasn't rusted to something.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 09:16 PM   #20
mopar346
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Thanks John. Just want to be prepared to help. What type socket takes the spindle nut off if necessary? Big hex, 4 tab typical 4X4 socket, or something I'm not familiar with?
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Unread 11-09-2011, 06:26 PM   #21
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OK guys, we got him done tonight. We found that the shoes were expanded and the adjuster stuck not really rusted to anything, don't know why it was so tight. We had to take the hub apart and pry the drum off, not too tough or a hard pry, didn't even tweak the backing plate. The studs ARE swedged to the drum, you could clearly see the marks, whether they were supposed to be or not some one at some point did it, we even took a 2X4 and a 2 lb hammer to it to see if we could knock it loose once it was off the vehicle, no luck. It isn't hurting anything so I would just leave it that way.

If someone has any of the roller bearings or pins that the locking hub slider ride on, it is missing 3 of them. The rest of the hub assemble looks good, so if he can get these he want have to buy a new one. He's a good guy, if anyone wants to send them to him. They are warn hub held on with 6 3/8 bolts if that helps, it's a 70 CJ5.

Anyway thanks for all how help with input, it went as planned.
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Unread 11-10-2011, 06:54 AM   #22
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You need to pry between the shoes and the backing plate to DETERMINE IF THE DRUM IS RUSTED TO THE HUB OR THE SHOES.

If the drum moves on the lug studs, it's the shoes holding it in place.

If the drum does NOT move on the studs, the drum is rusted to the hub drive flange where the studs mount.

There are TWO different problems, you need to go about it differently for each.

---------------------------------------------


If the drum is actually rusted to the shoes, there can't be any pads left,
And if you use a pry bar between backing plate and drum, you should be able to move the entire drum/brakes around on the backing plate a little... You will see the drum move in relationship to the studs/drive flange plate on the hub.

The shoes rusted to the drum, you just take a Big hammer, pound around the drum while prying the drum outward and it should pop loose.
Eventually, you will break the shoes loose from the drum and the drum will come off.

I have had to break the drum away from the hub before,
I have had to use 'Wedges' to get the drum broken free from the drive flange of the axle and shoes from drum before...

This is probably going to take a LOT of force to do... And you aren't going to get out damage free, expect some carnage...
I would source parts before I went hammering around on things, see what you MUST save at all costs...

*IF*...
You drive on the drum punching it outward, don't worry about the brake shoes, pins, springs, they are all available still.

The drums are expensive, but the drums are the usual sacrificial pig in this situation.

------------------------------

Drum rusted to hub...
This is the most common,
And you need an air hammer... Hammer between the lug studs to break the rust loose.
Use a wedge to apply outward between backing plate and drum,
Use an air hammer with flat nose chisel between the lug studs.

Eventually the air hammer will break the rust loose between drum face and the hub.
You will probably find the adjuster is all the way expanded, then you have to deal with shoes caught in the wear groove in the drum...
Then you start with prying, and banging on the outside of the drum to vibrate the shoes out of the groove so you can get the drum off.

DO NOT FORGET TO PUT NEVER-SEIZE ON THAT HUB FLANGE WHEN YOU REASSEMBLE!
Don't over do it, but a little protection will help out the next time.

----------------------------

There are alternatives,
You can use wedges between drum and backing plate to keep constant pressure on the drum outward.
I use metal, but you can pick up wooden wedges from any home improvment or hardware store for a couple of bucks.
They are used to square up door and window frames.

Cut the noses off the wedges to get the thickness you want, and drive them in to maintain constant pressure.

You can drill holes in the face of the drum (where the lug studs are) just inside of the drum rim where the hub flange IS NOT,
And use 'Lag Screws' in those holes, combined with a slide hammer to get some outward shock force going to get the drum off.

You can also grind slots in the flange face of the drums, outside of the wheel mounting flange, and use a gear puller to yank on the drum, just remember to take the lock out off and put a 1/4" piece of steel over the hole to push against...

Anyway you look at it, FORCE is going to be involved...
So take your time, figure out what you have to work with, where it needs to be to separate the drum from the drive flange/shoes, and make it happen SAFELY...
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Unread 11-10-2011, 08:15 AM   #23
jeepdaddy2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar346 View Post
OK guys, we got him done tonight. We found that the shoes were expanded and the adjuster stuck not really rusted to anything, don't know why it was so tight. We had to take the hub apart and pry the drum off, not too tough or a hard pry, didn't even tweak the backing plate. The studs ARE swedged to the drum, you could clearly see the marks, whether they were supposed to be or not some one at some point did it, we even took a 2X4 and a 2 lb hammer to it to see if we could knock it loose once it was off the vehicle, no luck. It isn't hurting anything so I would just leave it that way.

If someone has any of the roller bearings or pins that the locking hub slider ride on, it is missing 3 of them. The rest of the hub assemble looks good, so if he can get these he want have to buy a new one. He's a good guy, if anyone wants to send them to him. They are warn hub held on with 6 3/8 bolts if that helps, it's a 70 CJ5.

Anyway thanks for all how help with input, it went as planned.
The rollers you are speaking of are for an old style heavy duty Warn or a loc o matic spraig clutch, which is a different animal altogether.
If it is a standard Warn, my suggestion is to replace them with a newer spring style. While brutally strong, the early style requires precise alignment with the axle to engage, and can almost be impossible to disengage, especially with a limited slip. The spring style hub allows you to "disengage" the hub then drive. If there is wind up in the drivetrain, the springs in the hub will keep pressure on the mechanism till you make a corner and then unlock.
As for the loc o matic, if you want to keep it, you may try the binderplanet forum. These were very popular on Scouts and the guys over there love them. They have an excellent writeup on ID'ing and servicing them. I'll bet someone has the parts you need.
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