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Unread 11-28-2009, 10:21 AM   #16
molsenice
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1964 CJ5 
 
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Location: Glens Falls, NY
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Quote:
Remember, the trigger signal isn't produced until the TRAILING EDGE of the reluctor breaks (magnetic) contact with the TRAILING EDGE of the stator core...
I am sooooooo glad you posted this - I have been mistakenly thinking it would be the leading edge.

and I would like to say thanks again

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Unread 11-28-2009, 01:17 PM   #17
molsenice
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Quote:
If you hook up the ignition, put a test plug in the coil, turn the key on with the distributor OUT,
And spin the distributor,
You SHOULD see a fireworks show...

If you do that, you have VERIFIED the distributor is sending signal,
That signal is getting to the module,
That module is switching the coil,
The coil is firing...
the test
YouTube - distributor test
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Unread 11-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #18
Mike Romain
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Link is blank...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 11-28-2009, 04:38 PM   #19
molsenice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
Link is blank...
link works on my end, will look into it Mike and I will get it working, it just shows the sparking of the test plug with the distributor pulled out, ignition on, turning the distributor by hand.

here is what the rotor is looking like now, this is the bottom as the notches show up better in pictures on the bottom.


the newest 2 notches are because I was thinking just before or just after the fins is what wold line up the reluctor / rotor, but not yet., I was also thinking that adusting the timming by twisting the distributor would get me the rest of the way, but not yet

I know I had dead-nuts-on tdc #1.

just to prove I am not going insane - I just dropped the Points dist. back in and she starts instantly.
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Unread 11-28-2009, 07:51 PM   #20
JeepHammer
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Link worked fine for me.

OK...
This might seem silly, but have you VERIFIED the rotor and distributor cap?


I just spend over an hour chasing a 'No Start' problem on a 'TeamRush' upgrade for another forum user, turned out his center electrode (Carbon Pile) was damaged off the shelf, and no current was getting to the rotor.
--------------------------------

When you turn the distributor to get your 'Timing' correct,
You are misaligning the rotor phasing with the cap terminals.

Get yourself running, then use a test cap to fine tune the rotor sweep.

Test cap also lets you know where the rotor position is when #1 is firing when trying to work out where the reluctor belongs.

I usually use a test cap when I'm fine tuning the reluctor for rotor phasing/sweep past #1... Makes things SO much easier.
----------------------------

You have tested and VERIFIED the power to the ignition in 'RUN' position,
But have you tested or verified the power to the ignition coil/module in the 'Cranking' or 'Starting' position?

Could this be a glitch in the wiring when you are cranking the engine with the starter?

Last edited by JeepHammer; 11-29-2009 at 09:41 AM..
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Unread 11-29-2009, 10:55 AM   #21
molsenice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
Link worked fine for me.
Good to know
Quote:

OK...
This might seem silly, but have you VERIFIED the rotor and distributor cap?


I just spend over an hour chasing a 'No Start' problem on a 'TeamRush' upgrade for another forum user, turned out his center electrode (Carbon Pile) was damaged off the shelf, and no current was getting to the rotor.
pulled every plug wire off the spark plugs and used a grounded test plug - got spark at all 6

Quote:
You have tested and VERIFIED the power to the ignition in 'RUN' position,
But have you tested or verified the power to the ignition coil/module in the 'Cranking' or 'Starting' position?

Could this be a glitch in the wiring when you are cranking the engine with the starter?
pretty sure the test plug showing spark at every wire proves power to the modual during cranking - I have been wrong before


now - I am pretty sure my family is going to call the nut house on me soon

but

here are pictures of the reluctor keyways I have, either factory or ones I have made. I tryed to get the magnetic pickup in each pic (note the blue dot), for each pic, I kept the shaft so the rotor would point at #1
rotor pointing at number one

Factory position

first made keyway

second made keyway

third made keyway

fourth made keyway



so, any advice? - position that should work? new location to make a keyway?

go drink heavily and stay away from sharp objects?

here is my mailing address, send me that $%#*ing distributor, I will set the reluctor just so you stop posting about this
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Unread 11-29-2009, 12:04 PM   #22
Mike Romain
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Man I wish my CJ wasn't stuck way out in the bush at our cabin so I could go and just take a photo of mine with the rotor off so you could line up the arms with the notch in the shaft the same. Maybe some one here has a photo?
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:04 AM   #23
JeepHammer
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Depends on which distributor you have...

The 'Pre Computer' distributors have a different reluctor position from the 'Computer' distributors.

The computer receives the signal from the trigger,
Then 'Retards' that signal so it can manipulate the signal to the ignition module (controlling advance/retard based on engine RPM and input from the O2 sensor)

The NON-computer models have what we refer to as 'Straight Up' signal,
Where the distributor signal is processed directly by the ignition module.

You will find the computer reluctors fire EARLIER than the Non-computer counterparts because there is no need to have full advance held by the computer.
-----------------------

I still think someone needs to check the wiring to see if both coil and module are getting dependable power when 'Cranking' the engine,

We know that when the ignition is in the 'Run' position, he's getting signal and firing from the single test plug in the coil.
That single test plug lets us know that the ignition switch is delivering power to both when in the 'RUN' position, but no info on 'Crank' or 'Start'...

And it also doesn't let us know if the coil spark energy produced is getting THROUGH the distributor cap to the spark plug wires...

Wrong rotor, bad cap, bad coil wire, ect. can all cause problems inside the cap that will keep the engine from firing correctly even if you have the reluctor in the correct position.

Wish he lived closer, we could probably knock this out in an hour or two...

I've tried to find a stock reluctor around here, no luck so far, and my 'Straight Up' I-6 distributor pics are on an old 'Zip Drive' that refuses to work for me right now...
---------------

Let me dig around and see what else I have in the 'Old Picture' files!...
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:34 AM   #24
JeepHammer
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OK, first of all,
See if you have a factory drive gear with 'Divot' on the gear.

The 'Divot' is the small mark that looks like someone started to drill a hole in the gear, but stopped.
This is actually an alignment cue for the gear so it goes on the shaft the correct direction.

Since the gear has 13 teeth, there is no way to drill it so you get exactly HALF either way, and the divot on the gear lets you know 'Front' from 'Back' on that gear.
If you don't have the 'Divot' facing the rotor nose, you stand the chance of having the rotor 26 degrees misaligned from the trigger right out of the hat.



Now, this shows the divot line up point,
It should face the rotor nose when installed...
I have polished the factory alignment divot here so you can see it in a distance shot of the distributor....



DO NOT use rotor/reluctor alignment from this Image, there is NO ROLL PIN in that reluctor!

SOME AFTER MARKET DISTRIBUTORS DO NOT HAVE THE DIVOT,
So some of the re-manufactured units will be without divot...


If the rotor phasing is pretty far off when you install and get running,
I often recommend you take the gear off and turn in 180 degrees and reinstall...
This often corrects aftermarket gears/rotor phasing issues.
----------------------------------------

When your distributor is correctly installed, your #1 plug terminal should be where the scratch is shown in this image.
REMEMBER!
Breaker points and electronic ignitions use DIFFERENT LOCATIONS FOR #1 on the caps! So don't get the two confused...
----------------------------------

Rotor should be pointing roughly at the vacuum advance connection point on the distributor...



Some vacuum advance arms are longer than others,
But this will give you a very good idea of where the reluctor should be located under the rotor, and where the trigger STATOR should be in the distributor when you are trying to align the stator to the rotor/trigger.

----------------------------------------------------

Remember, 1-5-3-6-2-4 Clockwise from the vacuum advance pivot connection...



-----------------------------------------------------------

EARLY I-6 (NON-Computer) Reluctor (Same as 'FORD' reluctor)...



Later reluctors will have a notch between 'Arms' and one aligned with an 'Arm'...
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:50 AM   #25
molsenice
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back to work today - so I cannot run out to the garage.

The distributor gear does not have the dimple and I did try reversing the gear, but get this, the hole is not centered, therefore, the gear only goes on one way, try reversing it and the hole no longer lines up
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Unread 11-30-2009, 10:04 AM   #26
John N
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I have (I think) a used 258 distributor and no use for it. Your's for free, if you think it will help. Just PM me your address......
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'81 Scrambler w/ FI 360 AMC, 33x12.50 BFG M/T's, 5" of lift, ARB'd Dana 44's F & R, Dana 300 clocked & twin sticked w/4:1, Warn XD9000i, etc...
2002 Grand Cherokee Limited, 2008 Overland Grand Cherokee, a 1976 CJ-7 in pieces and 3 more off-brand 4x4s...............
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Unread 11-30-2009, 10:53 AM   #27
JeepHammer
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VERY COOL OF YOU JOHN!
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Unread 11-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #28
molsenice
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Location: Glens Falls, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
VERY COOL OF YOU JOHN!
Holy good God - Thankyou - PM SENT

nice way for me to end a MONDAY @ work - and a rough one it was

Headed to POP's house - he turned 80 today
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:55 PM   #29
John N
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I'll try to get it out tomorrow. I hope it helps you get things right......This thread was getting painful.
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'81 Scrambler w/ FI 360 AMC, 33x12.50 BFG M/T's, 5" of lift, ARB'd Dana 44's F & R, Dana 300 clocked & twin sticked w/4:1, Warn XD9000i, etc...
2002 Grand Cherokee Limited, 2008 Overland Grand Cherokee, a 1976 CJ-7 in pieces and 3 more off-brand 4x4s...............
John N
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Unread 12-01-2009, 06:19 PM   #30
John N
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Shipped USPS, you should have it by the weekend.
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'81 Scrambler w/ FI 360 AMC, 33x12.50 BFG M/T's, 5" of lift, ARB'd Dana 44's F & R, Dana 300 clocked & twin sticked w/4:1, Warn XD9000i, etc...
2002 Grand Cherokee Limited, 2008 Overland Grand Cherokee, a 1976 CJ-7 in pieces and 3 more off-brand 4x4s...............
John N
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