Everything Checks out but still no turnover

kovic · 07-02-2012, 05:16 PM

Hey guys, back with more electrical crap on my 1983 jeep cj5 258l

All I get is a buzzing at the solenoid. I took my battery and starter to autozone and they tested both of them and they came back good.

I replaced the solenoid but no help there. I bought a starter anyways to try and the same thing happened so I returned it.

I also replaced the battery cables and switch to starter cable.

so, the battery checks out, the starter checks out, new cables, new solenoid and still same issue.

I dont know where else to turn.

When I jump to the ignition stud on the solenoid and have someone turn the key, i can feel the starter do somthing, but still no turn.

I dont want to keep wasting money trying things, if anyone has any idea please share.

Jeep was fine, i took the battery out to try and start another vehicle, then put it back in, I put my electric fuel pump back on and started it, there was a gas leak, so I turned it off, fixed that and went to start it again and it just buzzed.

Thanks

BagusJeep · 07-03-2012, 01:21 AM

Jumping to the I stud will not help. that is a feed to the ignition when the solenoid is energised. You need to go back to basics and look at the blindingly obvious and eliminate issues.

Testing the battery - yeah I know they told you it was good. Have you tried turning on the headlights for 5 minutes? Are you SURE it is fully charged? Low voltage would be my first guess, or some inability to pass current of any size, often a battery issue.

If satisfied get a long jumper lead and connect from the S terminal (where the light blue wire goes) to the battery +ve. Any joy? Here we are testing the ignition switch and wiring out to the starter. You can get the same effect by jumping between the large red lead and the S terminal at the solenoid.

Get same long jumper lead and ground between the battery -ve post and the outside of the solenoid. Any joy when you turn the key? This is to check the grounding of the solenoid which can be problemmatic. When you changed the battery -ve lead did you connect it to the starter bolts?

IF YOU WANT TO WELD METAL TRY THIS. JUMP BETWEN THE LARGE RED CABLE FROM THE BATTERY AND THE RED CABLE TO THE STARTER WITH A SPANNER. IT WILL TRY TO WELD ITSELF ON WITH LOTS OF SPARKE BUT YOU WILL MAYBE HEAR THE STARTER SPIN. IF SO IT IS THE SOLENOID WIRING OR GROUNDING OR SOLENOID ITSELF.

kovic · 07-03-2012, 06:41 AM

Thanks for the response. I charged the battery up, got it to 13.96 volts on my volt reader. I got and old cable and touched it to the + post and to the S post on the solenoid, it gave me the same buzzing sound as if I just turned the key.

Then I when from the - post to the outside of solenoid and had someone turn the key, no sparks, and no change in the noise.

I also when from + straight to starter with no result.

Thanks

CSP · 07-03-2012, 06:46 AM

Voltage means diddly squat for starting power. You need amperage.

Did the guys that tested the battery do a load test on it? If so, what amperage did they pull?

A battery with a dead cell will still show 12-14v and not have enough "UMPH" to kick the starter over. That's why your solenoid is just buzzing and clicking.

**thantos858** · 07-03-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovic

Thanks for the response. I charged the battery up, got it to 13.96 volts on my volt reader. I got and old cable and touched it to the + post and to the S post on the solenoid, it gave me the same buzzing sound as if I just turned the key.

Then I when from the - post to the outside of solenoid and had someone turn the key, no sparks, and no change in the noise.

I also when from + straight to starter with no result.

Thanks

Sounds like a battery issue. Do you have another battery that you can connect to it?

dslywalker · 07-03-2012, 12:51 PM

Can you turn the engine over by hand.Maybe something is binding it.Take the starter out and see if its spining normally out of the engine.

CSP · 07-03-2012, 02:33 PM

Thinking about this some more, the starter could also be to blame regardless of testing ok.

I had one that tested ok in my 7.3 Powerstroke. The problem was they didn't test it long enough and the resistance wasn't building on their machine like it was on my truck. Despite being told it was ok, I had it tested at another store and there it was, bad as could be. This was after chasing my tail looking for the problem after being told everything was good.

Get a 2nd opinion from another source on the battery and starter. Make sure that they spin the starter for a good 30 seconds or longer on their machine.

kovic · 07-03-2012, 02:40 PM

They did 3 separate fairly lengthy tests on the starter, and said it was strong... it did sound good. Now with the battery, Im not sure how to test the amp, but when I hold the volt meter to it as the key is turned and it is buzzing it drops down to 3-4 volts total.

But I have tried 2 other batteries out of working vehicles and the same buzzing occurs.

And I had even bought a starter just in case and tried that and it did the same thing so I returned it. I'll look more into the battery I guess.

Thanks guys

DougE · 07-03-2012, 03:24 PM

Certainly puzzling. Buzzing solenoid is typically low voltage. If the solenoid pulls in and you get a loud "clunk" from the starter that's usually low amperage as the starter isn't getting enough power to turn the motor over. Have you checked the ground side? The solenoid must have a good ground path back to the battery to pull in. The solenoid grounds through its mount on the fender and through various straps and cables to get back to the battery.

kovic · 07-03-2012, 04:49 PM

When I take the volt reader and touch the positive and touch the solenoid ground it reads the same as if I am touching both battery studs

lostnorweegian · 07-03-2012, 05:30 PM

Have you tried to read the voltage on your battery while yor trying to start it?
And is your engine ground good?

kovic · 07-03-2012, 06:54 PM

Yes I have tried that, When i read the voltage and start it it drops down to 3 - 4 volts, so from 13 or so all the way down to 3 or 4, and yea I checked the engine ground and it is good.

Matt_G · 07-04-2012, 12:15 AM

somethings not right between your battery and you starter, this we already know.

there are four key elements to check
1)Battery
2)solenoid
3)Starter
4)Wiring

IFyour battery really is good and so is your starter. then that breaks it down to the solenoid and the wiring. get a piece of wire and cross the S and the I terminal, if it buzzs like before, then you know its in the wiring. everytime my solenoid has buzzed, it was because of lack of power. so inspect your cables, make sure they have good connection, check for frayed ends, burned insulation, is you ground strap from frame to motor good? if all checks out, find someone with a similar output battery that will let you use it, see if it will start.

lostnorweegian · 07-04-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovic

Yes I have tried that, When i read the voltage and start it it drops down to 3 - 4 volts, so from 13 or so all the way down to 3 or 4, and yea I checked the engine ground and it is good.

That sounds like it drops to much if you ask me.
Im not shure if i remember this right but i dont think it should drop much under 8v
Have you tried jumpstarting it?

BagusJeep · 07-04-2012, 12:50 AM

The way to test a battery is by hydrometer and by a heavy load discharge.

The hydrometer checks it is is charged, based on specific gravity. We will assume it is.

A heavy load dischrage test uses a box with a large carbon resistor and an ammeter. Basically it is seeing if it can maintain a 55Amp load for 15 seconds. At the end of the test you then measure the voltage. 9.6V is the threshold, any less and you throw the battery away. If it only showing 3-4 Volts there is no way the batetry is going to hold up to a starter motor.

I had my company 2 year old Toyota out to the airport last week. 100 mile round trip, got back to the flat, left the lights on for 4 minutes whilst I nipped inside and it refused to restart, though the headlights would come on and I could swear it was fully charged. Little guy came on a scooter with a new battery and the heavy load discharge box. Tested the old battery, got 6V after the test. Nice new battery installed, cranked right up. The point of the story is that a seemingly fully charged battery that had started the vehicle only an hour earlier and then been run at high speed was now defunct.