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Unread 02-14-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
GADJIT98
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Engine question

Ok, here is a head scratcher....

What would cause smoke/vapor to come out of the PCV valve grommet, the CCV grommet, and the Dip Stick hole where the dip stick goes into the tube.... also I have oil blowing up the CCV hose into the carb breather. Oil is also being blown around in the engine bay.

PCV rattles when I shake it and I have vacuum on the PCV tube.

Any advice would be wonderful!

David

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Unread 02-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #2
Redmanchew
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not good... sounds like rings going down and valve stem seals going up... have you done a compression test?
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Unread 02-15-2012, 10:41 AM   #3
1SASjeepster
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I think redmanchew is correct. Do a compression tests and post the numbers. Have you done a vacuum test yet? A vacuum test can tell you all kinds of information about your valve train. I will post instructions below.

HOW TO USE A VACUUM GAUGE...

When using the gauge, hook into a good port on the intake manifold. Any competent engine should be running between 18-22 inches of mercury.

(1) The vacuum gauge can be used to check for leaks in the valve train, intake manifold or head gasket. With the engine at normal idle and at operating temperature, hook up the gauge. Normal operation would have the needle/ pointer holding steady and not fluctuating. If the needle holds steady, than drops an inch or more, and then returns again to normal, and repeats… this signals one or more engine valves are closing but not seating properly, thus creating a leak. Each time the valve doesn't seat properly, the pointer fluctuates. The fluctuation isn't much, maybe 1-3 inches of mercury.

(2) If the pointer drops sharply 5-10 inches from normal, and then returns… this signals a cylinder head gasket. This behavior will repeat itself. If the leak is between two adjacent cylinders, the leak will be more pronounced.

(3) If the pointer/ needle fluctuates constantly at a reading of 3-8 inches of mercury BELOW normal, It indicates intake system leakage.

(4) If you think you may have a "back pressure" issue, get the vehicle at normal operating temperature and slowly bring engine to 2,000 rpms. Close throttle quickly. If no back pressure is present, the pointer will jump past your normal reading and smoothly return to normal, just as fast. If it is slow or uneven return, there is an issue of back pressure. You can also test it another way… hold the engine at 2,000 rpms and watch needle. If it begins to decrease gradually instead of holding steady, there is an exhaust restriction somewhere.

(5) Continuous pointer movement an inch of so above or below normal indicates the need for further checking of the ignition system with electrical test equipment. You may have a weak ignition coil, high tension cable leaks, bad distributor cap, bad spark plug or incorrect spark plug gapping.

On my 2.5, I didn't have a PCV. Instead there was a brass "orifice" (Jeep's word, not mine…) attached to the front of the valve cover on the intake manifold side of the engine. This orifice had an engineered hole in it to precisely allow a small amount of "vapor" to pass through it to go to the intake system. It was Jeep's version of a PCV. This has to be checked and cleaned with all of the hoses and other fittings.

Most of this information was obtained from an old book I had in my shop titled "Petersen's Basic Tune up and Test Equipment." It is a dated book, but still "worth its salt".


I wish I could help more,

Take care,
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Unread 02-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #4
texasdave
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Old guys used to squirt some oil in the cylinder when doing the compression check if it went up it was the bottom side if it stayed the same it was the top side.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 11:54 AM   #5
hp_lovecraft
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Mines been doing that for years and years. It used to freak me out, but it is what it is. I just keep a watchfull eye on the oil level, and every few months hit the engine with degreaser.

I recently added an oil-catch to the PCV line, and also replaced my dipstick with a tube connected to the breather line. This seems to have stopped any oil from blowing out now. Sure... I could rebuild, but it runs fine otherwise.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:24 PM   #6
GADJIT98
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After a little more digging, here is some additional information:

1. The engine does not smoke bluish smoke, only black and only then at start up. I do think it is running rich though....

2. After 48 hours of sitting, you can now rotate each pushrod with finger pressure EXCEPT #10 and #12. With all my strength, I cannot move rotate them with just my fingers.... and all the rockers appear to be in the same position, I assume this is due to lifter bleed down.

3. There is a dark liquid on the threads of the #4 and #5 spark plugs....mostly #5.

4. The PCV has a "plug" type thing in it that does not appear to be controlled in any way by a spring, it just appears to be floating in the chamber that sticks into the VC grommet.

5. Using a stethascope, there is lifter noise on #5.


I have not yet done a compression test, but will do one tomorrow.

thank you for any insight,

David
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:53 PM   #7
mopar346
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"Most of this information was obtained from an old book I had in my shop titled "Petersen's Basic Tune up and Test Equipment." It is a dated book, but still "worth its salt"."

So are these vehicles.

The reason you cant turn those push rods maybe that the they are in an actuated position (the engine stop point is when they in their action). The others are in a relaxed position, I actually set up most of my hydraulic lifter engine using that method. Set TDC adjust appropriate cylinders, tighten until I can just barely roll the push rod and tight 1/4-3/8 turn, run to operating temp and go back through them, turn 90* repeat, turn 90* repeat, turn 90* repeat.

Oil in the cylinder will indicate top end or bottom end, you can also use the head end of a compression tester to inject compressed air into the cylinder and check for leak down/bleed by.

Anyway you slice it, it don't said good. Of course, I love when I have reason to replace or build an engine for one of mine. One of my biggest disaapointments with my CJ is that the engine look fresh inside, no reason to build.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #8
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Anyway you slice it, it don't said good. Of course, I love when I have reason to replace or build an engine for one of mine. One of my biggest disaapointments with my CJ is that the engine look fresh inside, no reason to build.[/QUOTE]

HEY I HAVE AN ENGINE THAT YOU CAN BUILD FOR ME I'LL EVEN LET YOU BUY ALL THE PARTS AND DO ALL THE WORK ON IT THEN I'LL PUT IT IN MY CJ...... SOUND LIKE A GOOD DEAL TO ME
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Unread 02-16-2012, 04:29 AM   #9
mopar346
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Don't tempt me.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 04:47 AM   #10
86cj74.2L
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Does you oil smell like it has gas in it from running rich? What color are your plugs?

I had a roadrunner with a 383 and cylinders were soo worn it would blow the dip stick out.

Took 2 overbore's to clean up the cylinders. But otherwise ran fine. Probably spent most of its life before me with no air cleaner on it.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 10:29 PM   #11
GADJIT98
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....And the head scratching continues....

Here is what I know....

Plugs on #4 and #5 have a little black liquid on the THREADS. All plugs are soot black.

Compression numbers: 1=150+ 2=145 3=150 4=85 5=65 6=150

Note the liquid is on the two cyls with the lowest pressure.

All cylinder bores look fine, no real issues, no scoring , nothing obvious.

Have not pulled lifters yet, but visual inspection in the bores, they look fine.

No real definitive clues on the head gasket - no carbon paths, no burns.

A couple of the rocker bridges are bent slightly.



What say ya'll?

Thank you for all the help!

David
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Unread 02-17-2012, 12:02 AM   #12
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You have problems on 4 and 5, those readings are out if the Jeep tolerance which is 120-150psi with up to 30psi variation between cylinders. You are at the top end on most cylinders, congrats, but are leaking on 4 and 5.

You should have leak tested the cylinders 4 and 5 to determine if it was pistons or head before you stripped it down.

Next step is to look at valves and piston rings. The valves need to be stripped out and then side play and seat need to be examined. Pistons need extracting to examine the rings, you may have some broken ones. However same result could come from poor valve adjustment i.e. they stay open.
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