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Unread 08-08-2013, 06:33 AM   #16
walkerhoundvm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith460 View Post
Right now, I put a shroud over the engine hoping it can heal itself!

Hallelujah, amen.
Give it a few days.

That's terrible, Keith. At least you've got the know-how and I think you're on the right track. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

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Unread 08-08-2013, 08:17 PM   #17
OrangeCJ-5
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Not knowing what sort of rebuild you did it's hard to say. I haven't read your rebuild thread. If you had the block decked and the head milled to make sure both are flat than I'd lean toward a head gasket failure. Maybe the old bolts are to blame although a cracked head is a possibility. If it was mine, I'd try another gasket before condemning the head.
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Unread 08-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #18
BlkCJ7Laredo
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Keith, I'd recommend against putting any kind of sealant on a Fel-Pro gasket. That's why they put the blue coating on them, that acts as the sealant. I believe there's probably a slip of paper in with the gasket saying not to put anything on it.

I am not sure if the 258 head bolts are "Torque-to-yield" but I've put a few of them together using the original bolts and they have never bothered, including my present engine which came from an '88 YJ and now has about 35,000 trouble free miles on it. I used Victor Reinz gaskets on that build. I hope it continues to be trouble free when I put it back into my CJ when it's done, I did do a freshening of the exterior and this is how it looks now:




Best of luck getting it back up and running. If you do end up needing a head core, I think I have one or two out back in the shed.
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Unread 08-09-2013, 07:15 PM   #19
billybooster2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkCJ7Laredo
Keith, I'd recommend against putting any kind of sealant on a Fel-Pro gasket. That's why they put the blue coating on them, that acts as the sealant. I believe there's probably a slip of paper in with the gasket saying not to put anything on it.

I am not sure if the 258 head bolts are "Torque-to-yield" but I've put a few of them together using the original bolts and they have never bothered, including my present engine which came from an '88 YJ and now has about 35,000 trouble free miles on it. I used Victor Reinz gaskets on that build. I hope it continues to be trouble free when I put it back into my CJ when it's done, I did do a freshening of the exterior and this is how it looks now:




Best of luck getting it back up and running. If you do end up needing a head core, I think I have one or two out back in the shed.
The 258 headbands are not tty, hence their slightly lower torque spec. Ive reused 258 b4 but not 4.0 which are tty. And i agree with blkcj never sealant on head gasket. Use the expensive felpro. Its expensive coz it works.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 06:04 AM   #20
keith460
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When the engine was being rebuilt in 2009, the block and head were both magnafluxed and decked. It is one of the reasons I use 89 octane fuel now instead of 87. The compression a little higher from the decking and I can feel the difference when driving using 89 octane.

The Fel-Pro head gasket replaced a Crown head gasket that was put in in 1990 that I had absolutely no problems with. Used sealant on that one and I forget why I needed to take the head off as it was a long time ago. But anyway, the Fel-Pro gasket didn't have a piece of paper in the package stating not to use sealant or other wise. It went on dry, and now I have leaks. My new head gasket from Quadratec came in yesterday and it is another Crown head gasket for $12.99. Same one they made 33 years ago and had good luck with and I can see the difference from the more expensive $30.00 Fel-Pro version. The Fel-Pro version does not have raised sealant or "edge molded sealant beads" around the each coolant passage or port like the Crown version does. The Fel-Pro was just flat with the blue chalk like sealant only. I'm liking the Crown version already as it is just like the OEM one used by the factory. And for once it's not made in China, but in Peru! At least that is one of the America's.



My bet is still leaning towards stretched head bolts is the cause for the leak.

Got most of my parts in except the 3.75"L head bolts from ARP as they are on back order right now. I'll be sucking all the gunk off the top today and prepping the removal of the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds still attached.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #21
gmakra
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Kieth have you considered a MLS (multi layer steel) head gasket?
I am running on on my Jeep and it works very well you do not use any sealant on it and FelPro and Mopar make them.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 08:29 AM   #22
keith460
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FedEx just arrived with the rest of my ARP head bolts so I will start the cleanup today while I have the time.

I just looked at my Healing Shroud covering the exposed valve train and I believe I can see 'his' face in the oil stain! I going to sell the shroud on eBay to the highest bidder to recoup the cost and lost Jeep driving time. I swore I wouldn't go there but, what fun would that be if I just ignored it!

What do you think, can you see 'his' face?
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Unread 08-10-2013, 08:33 AM   #23
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Here's all my parts laid out.

Head gasket, Valve Cover, 14 ARP Head Bolts, 14ea. Washers, Assembly Lube and as a bonus, Summit Racing shipped two bottles of "Five Hour Energy". I guess they knew I would need it.

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Unread 08-10-2013, 08:36 AM   #24
billybooster2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith460
FedEx just arrived with the rest of my ARP head bolts so I will start the cleanup today while I have the time.

I just looked at my Healing Shroud covering the exposed valve train and I believe I can see 'his' face in the oil stain! I going to sell the shroud on eBay to the highest bidder to recoup the cost and lost Jeep driving time. I swore I wouldn't go there but, what fun would that be if I just ignored it!

What do you think, can you see 'his' face?
Turin my a$$!!! Its definitely healing!!
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Unread 08-10-2013, 09:44 AM   #25
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Keith, I really don't think it was a used head-bolt issue in your case.
I have seen this issue before with felt-pro. I for one am NOT impressed at all with their gaskets, and will NOT use them.
Just don't forget to do a re-torque of the headbolts when you get about 500 miles on the engine.
Good luck,
LG
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Unread 08-10-2013, 12:59 PM   #26
BlkCJ7Laredo
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Best of luck Keith. That Crown gasket looks like the Victor Reinz gasket I used in my rebuild.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 01:59 PM   #27
keith460
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I got the Cylinder Head off and can clearly see that the Fel-Pro gasket did not seal against the block. It sealed against the Cylinder Head but the small coolant passages between the cylinders and the push rod cavities are soaked with coolant and oil residue.

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Unread 08-10-2013, 07:02 PM   #28
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I strongly recommend three coats of copper spray gasket on the bolt threads and both gasket surfaces. I have use every gasket there is on fresh heads and blocks. Nothing sealed until I used spray gasket.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 04:21 AM   #29
keith460
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Got back into the engine late in the afternoon after doing a work related job for a customer on Sunday.

With the Cylinder Head off, it was time for some cleanup work.

Cylinder Head scraped and cleaned of the Fel-Pro head gasket. I used a razor scraper and a soft brass brush.


Cleaned out the Lifter Gallery with a vacuum attachment and generally sucked up any gunk with it.




Thoroughly cleaned out the head bolt threaded holes and chased them with a 7/16-14 tap.




I'm off to a business trip to the Carolina's for the rest of the week so no Jeep time this week. Might be able to fire up the pressure washer before I leave and give the head and valve cover a good cleaning.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:35 AM   #30
billybooster2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith460
Got back into the engine late in the afternoon after doing a work related job for a customer on Sunday.

With the Cylinder Head off, it was time for some cleanup work.

Cylinder Head scraped and cleaned of the Fel-Pro head gasket. I used a razor scraper and a soft brass brush.


Cleaned out the Lifter Gallery with a vacuum attachment and generally sucked up any gunk with it.




Thoroughly cleaned out the head bolt threaded holes and chased them with a 7/16-14 tap.




I'm off to a business trip to the Carolina's for the rest of the week so no Jeep time this week. Might be able to fire up the pressure washer before I leave and give the head and valve cover a good cleaning.
When does the shroud warrant a 'Holy Toledo' quip!!?
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