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Unread 03-20-2015, 10:43 PM   #1
KevinHD
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engine dies... any advice ?

This forum has been very helpful.
I recently started using this Jeep after it sat for 10 years.
It was running rough & wouldn't idle much below 1000 rpm. The local mechanics' solution was to set curb idle at 1500 rpm... so...
I studied several threads, did the nutter a couple days ago and reworked vac hoses this morning.
There's been a noticeable improvement every step of the way. It runs much smoother, has more power than before and will idle at 650 rpm.
I still have work to do...
A couple issues present before nutter still exist... an occaisional sputter (?) in the exhaust like it almost stalls but recovers... and the most pressing matter... while driving, when you aproach a near stop the engine dies when you step on the clutch and let off the gas.
before nutter when coming to a stop, you had to rev it for awhile till I guess the cpu controls caught up and it was able to maintain idle. now after nutter and vac lines, it's a fairly short interval, just a quick punch on the gas pedal and it's fine.
Still, it's rather inconvenient.
Tomorrow I plan to cap the canister and erg lines to eliminate that possibilty. Plus I still need to adjust the fuel air mixture screws. I held off on that till the timing light arrived.
That's the story. The question is why does it die when coming off throttle ?
I first thought vac advance hooked to "S" ported vacuum was retarding timing too greatly when letting off throttle... that's why I was waiting for the timing light.
I'm also thinking aforementioned canister and carb adjustment might have an affect.
So... has anyone seen this issue before ? any ideas ?

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Unread 03-20-2015, 10:56 PM   #2
Cutlass327
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Yep, a common thing with carbs. When was the last time the carb was taken apart and the crud from sitting 10 years cleaned out? Idle circuit is probably dirty or plugged, which is why the 'fix' was to up the idle. This then puts the adjustments off. Don't mess with the timing until the carb is redone and running good.

And also, don't cap off the canister. You could cause the tank to not vent properly, causing more issues.
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Unread 03-20-2015, 11:21 PM   #3
KevinHD
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I'm sure you're right...

ok...
That carb and everything else hasn't been adjusted in over 30 years.
I was hoping for a quick inexpensive patch to make do for a bit
At some point I plan to go with a new webber 32/36... maybe a 38 but highway speeds are seldom seen so from what I read the 32 may be a better option. I'll research that more. So, a rebuild kit for the stock carb might be necessary to get me by.
Thanks Rick!

Last edited by KevinHD; 03-21-2015 at 02:12 AM..
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Unread 03-21-2015, 02:09 AM   #4
KevinHD
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although the carb looks spotless there's not dirt or buildup in it. it's always had every hose hooked up with air cleaner in place.
I know I can't rule anything out though cuz it's all stock except the tires and that means everything needs to be replaced cuz nothing lasts forever.
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Unread 03-21-2015, 04:28 AM   #5
keith460
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Carb rebuild kits are cheap, like $15.00.

As stated your carb is way over due to be cleaned and rebuilt. The idle tubes get clogged and gummed up with varnish from gasoline that must be removed and cleaned out if you ever expect the engine to idle at a more reasonable rpm like 650. Carter carbs, with the Stepper Motors, are notoriously known to have poor idle habits when the idle tubes get clogged.
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Unread 03-21-2015, 05:49 AM   #6
Mike Romain
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You first need to address the timing after the nutter, it will have changed.
Second, the gas filter is only good for a year or so on a daily driver and they clog up when it sits for long periods. Be sure the new one goes in level with the return line up top.
You don't want to mess with the canister, that is the gas tank vent. If bad, your idle will surge, if its air filter has issues, you can try driving with the gas cap cracked open to see if the issues went away.
You should read this thread for how to set the carb up after the nutter:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ho...bypass-522262/
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Unread 03-21-2015, 05:52 AM   #7
pman
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X2 what Cutlass and Keith said. A carb rebuild IS a cheap and easy fix! Start here for the common idle tube clog Keith mentions (you can do this before you remove the carb-the cleaning of the tubes can be done by simply removing the air cleaner hoop and choke plate, then pulling the venturi's out with needle nose pliers):
http://jeeptech.com/engine/carter.html
Before you go plugging the EGR, with the engine running, take carb cleaner (or propane) and spray around the EGR valve gasket surface, carb base, carb throttle shaft, intake manifold where it mates to the head, etc. and look for rpm changes.

Keep us posted!
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Unread 03-21-2015, 10:53 AM   #8
KevinHD
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Mike,
yes that's a good thread. My intention when I metioned caping the canister was as a test to see if symptoms disappeared I was thinking well some people run without them so... but you all have convinced me. the canister stays. the filter has been changed but probably wouldn't hurt to change it again. the timing I have to verify... it's at the 7th notch, I believe. if the notches are the same as the diagrams I've seen on this forum that makes it about 10 btdc wich may be a good spot for running at 6,000 feet. I thought I use to set it on other vehicles years ago by turning the distributor till it ran best then backing off slightly, so I did that after nutter due to lack of a timing light. when the light arrived it seemed the notch was off the scale advanced. so I retarded it to 10 which is a little more advanced from where it was initially. it's on the list of things to address or verify.
Thanks for your insight, Mike.

Keith & pman,
I ordered a carb kit. local store wanted over $27. Autozone $20. Amazon $17 +s&h. I'm heading to Autozone in a few. maybe just as well in the long run.
It is cheap & for ya'll it may be quick haha but I'll be taking it slow cuz I haven't rebuilt a carb since I was 16. haven't even run a carbed vehicle since 1988.

Many thanks for all your input. I see the error in my ways... for now.
Good looking Jeeps too. Mine has paint issues after sitting so long... one of many items on the list.
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:14 PM   #9
KevinHD
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Finally got the carb rebuilt. everything takes time up here since it takes so long just to gather the materials you need.
carb-vent.jpg   carb-float.jpg   carb-airhorn.jpg  

Last edited by KevinHD; 03-29-2015 at 04:38 PM..
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:33 PM   #10
Matt1981CJ7
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The balancer will hit TDC twice in one combustion cycle. Once at the exhaust stroke and once at the combustion stroke.

You need to confirm TDC of the compression stroke of #1 cylinder. Then check rotor position and timing marks.

Also, be sure to unplug the vac advance, and plug the vacuum source, before setting initial timing.

Matt
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:40 PM   #11
KevinHD
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After starting the Jeep it still seemed to be missing and not running as smooth as I expect properly tuned engines to run, but it sounded much better than before, so I took it around the block & was amazed at how much more power it has! I didn't have to downshift to gain speed uphill. Felt like a race care in comparison.
But... now it's making loud sounds like marbles in the front of the valve cover ???

This is where I'm kicking myself cuz I tried merely checking the timing with a timing light & never could get it right even though the notch was where it was supposed to be around 10 degrees BTDC it wasn't right by the sound and performance.
So, with this new development of loud marbles, I set the notch on the flywheel at TDC & removed the distributor cap. The rotor is pointing to #6 sparkplug, not #1. OMG. Is this what's been the problem ?
motor-dist.jpg   motor-pass.jpg   motor-front.jpg  
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:40 PM   #12
KevinHD
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Thank You Matt !!

Last edited by KevinHD; 03-29-2015 at 04:55 PM..
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:42 PM   #13
Matt1981CJ7
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You snuck an edit in on me as I was responding. See above.

Matt
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Unread 03-29-2015, 04:53 PM   #14
KevinHD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
The balancer will hit TDC twice in one combustion cycle. Once at the exhaust stroke and once at the combustion stroke.

You need to confirm TDC of the compression stroke of #1 cylinder. Then check rotor position and timing marks.

Also, be sure to unplug the vac advance, and plug the vacuum source, before setting initial timing.

Matt
lol yes sorry bout that was trying to figure out how to post pictures... add to that a very slow internet connection... nothing I can do though, satellite ISP.

I have more things to check now.

Thank you Matt !!
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Unread 03-29-2015, 06:47 PM   #15
KevinHD
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another rotation of the balancer brought the rotor to #1 with practically no slop. So I set timing with the light. It's firing smoother than it was before it was parked 10 years ago. I'd be happy if not for the new loud marbles.
a large screwdriver indicates it's loudest at the alternator & I noticed while running the voltmeter is around 13.7 whereas before it was constantly at 14.2 so, it may be mostly a shot in the dark but I'll price alternators.

Thanks for your help Matt!
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