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Unread 08-10-2014, 08:23 PM   #16
Sherms-CJ7
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Thank you, Thank You, and THANK YOU JEEPHAMMER!!!

I'm really bummed to have to deal with this situation, but with you help and insight, I feel better about everything.

I'll be reading through your post at length a couple more times ... after I sober up ... family visiting and we just put down a couple steaks and are chasing that down with IPA's. Need it tonight ...

Thanks again so very much!!!

John

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Unread 08-10-2014, 08:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
You'd be amazed at how well a good cat can act as a filter before the turbo. Yeah, we found the exhaust valve and chunks of cylinder sleeve packed up at the converter.



Again, let's find out if you're leaking pressure through one of the valve seats.

Shawn
Hey Shawn,
Holy #$@%!!! Well, at least I know others have had similar situations ... sorry you had to go through that, but thanks much for sharing. It's sad, but at least I don't feel like only knucklehead with this sort of bad luck ...

Thanks again very much -
John
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Unread 08-12-2014, 08:55 AM   #18
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Well, I drove it some, then rechecked compression - still low. Took it to a mechanic friend and told him we want him to do a leak down test (need him to do it as I don't have a compressor). He said he would, but he thinks it just needs a new engine ... there is sometimes a low knocking sound now in addition to the blow-by. So, if it's the worst situation (I should get answer Thurs or Fri), then I'm thinking the next unfortunate question is ... do I rebuild (no warranty) or just get an engine from Jasper (3 yr./100K mile warranty)? Thoughts ... ?



Thanks in advance for any help and advice you may have -
John
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Unread 08-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #19
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If you've got someone local that you trust with a rebuild, I'd surely go that direction. If you get a crate, you can be pretty certain that the parts used along with the clearances and assembly techniques will be "just" good enough to get you past the warranty period.


Shawn

Edit: Have you read Hammer's recent thread? http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ho...-work-2632818/ That should be enough to put the fear of God in someone looking into a reman engine.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 09:33 AM   #20
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Personally I'd only use a crate engine only if it was impossible for me to find a block to rebuild.

I've heard good about Jasper and I've seen bad from Jasper. I've also seen ATK engines returned defective to shops. For me there's too much work involved in pulling an engine back out because it wasn't built right.

Find a local mechanic or engine rebuilder you can trust or at least has a decent reputation. A local guy rebuilding YOUR engine will consult with you if he finds something wrong. A guy just building an engine to sell might not feel too bad about overboring one cylinder .090 and the rest .060.

Besides, you have more control over the parts used.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 01:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot View Post
Personally I'd only use a crate engine only if it was impossible for me to find a block to rebuild.

I've heard good about Jasper and I've seen bad from Jasper. I've also seen ATK engines returned defective to shops. For me there's too much work involved in pulling an engine back out because it wasn't built right.

Find a local mechanic or engine rebuilder you can trust or at least has a decent reputation. A local guy rebuilding YOUR engine will consult with you if he finds something wrong. A guy just building an engine to sell might not feel too bad about overboring one cylinder .090 and the rest .060.

Besides, you have more control over the parts used.
Hey WindKnot,

Thanks very much replying ...
Yeah, I'm actually considering doing rebuild myself for this very reason, i.e. "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself". Just nervous about potential problems and not having a warranty ... not to mention problems with finding time to do the work and not knowing of reputable machine shops etc. Not sure what to do about this one ... ...
John
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Unread 08-12-2014, 02:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
If you've got someone local that you trust with a rebuild, I'd surely go that direction. If you get a crate, you can be pretty certain that the parts used along with the clearances and assembly techniques will be "just" good enough to get you past the warranty period.


Shawn

Edit: Have you read Hammer's recent thread? http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ho...-work-2632818/ That should be enough to put the fear of God in someone looking into a reman engine.
Hey Shawn!

Thanks much for the info - no, I hadn't seen that thread, but will check it out. Bummer, the mechanic that I trust is the one who's recommending reman. And, without going into the history, this will be my 4th reman ...

Well, might as well give the sad history.
1st engine: pulled head as a stupid 20 something kid (approx 1994 ... back in my early Navy days) and just thought it was a good idea to have engine rebuilt due to wear at top of cylinders ... and was excited to bore out cylinders for more power. Engine blew hole in #1 piston driving home from hanger at 2 AM.
2nd engine: PepBoys reman (approx 1995) ... was burning oil after 9 months. Got money back and ...
3rd engine: got another reman (from ?). That one gave me a few years (approx. 30k - 40K miles) before having blow-by problem (2002). Mechanic recommended a new engine ...
4th engine: reman (from ?) installed by mechanic back in New York. Spark plug failed in cylinder (not sure if this was cause or effect) and currently has blow-by problem accompanied by subtle knock. Mechanic recommending Jasper engine.

Man, I don't mean to be griping, but I've had some bad luck with engines. About that, guess you might be thinking I'm insane ... "doing same thing over and over again, but expecting different results". Seems like it's time I bite the bullet ... and the engine hoist, and to man up and look into rebuilding this thing myself. Just so annoyed, I have other car restoration projects that are waiting for me ... Maybe it's time a consider a new hobby ...

Thanks much for taking the time to help and advise!!
John
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Unread 08-12-2014, 04:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherms-CJ7 View Post
...Maybe it's time a consider a new hobby ...


John
John, I don't think there's an engine builder alive or now passed who hasn't uttered those very words... usually more than twice!

I think you've answered your own question regarding reman engines. The question now is, "can you find someone in your area that you can trust to do competent machine work?"

There really aren't too many things you need to rely on him to do at this hp and rpm level. If he can grind the crank down to the clearances needed for your new bearings (not just grinding .010 under and assuming the bearings will be correct), resize the rods, square the deck and head, align-hone that 4 foot long block and bore and finish hone the cylinders to the actual size of the pistons, you'll be far ahead of anything you'll likely get from another reman "chop shop". If he can do all of that, he can *hopefully* apply the same attention to detail to the valve job and guides.

You also won't be strapped to the same sh*t-quality China parts that the reman guys subject everyone to. You can choose your own pistons, timing set, cam, etc., all of which he can likely order so you don't offend him.

With just a couple of specialty tools, you can do the assembly yourself at your own pace and there are plenty of guys here to help.

The cam alone is something worth looking into. If you go with another reman engine or even let the shop choose some typical "replacement" cam, 99 times out of a hundred it'll be ground on some old, soft core with the accuracy of blind monkeys throwing darts and you'll have to break it in and hope it lives with today's crappy oils.

I just learned last week that Comp doesn't even grind a large portion of their catalog cams. Accuracy is all over the place and the cores are typically too soft. If you go custom, you can at least specify the core and any additional hardness treating you want done and Comp will actually grind it. If what I heard is true, Lunati is pulling the same thing. I guess "imagine that" as Comp bought Lunati.

Can you milk this thing out until the weather turns? It might be a cool winter project while you're parked anyways.


Shawn
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Unread 08-12-2014, 09:21 PM   #24
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Hey Shawn!!

Can't Thank You enough for laying all this out ... though the list of required machine work is intimidating. 25 years ago I helped a friend rebuild the motor to his family car, and I just didn't remember there being that much machine work ... well, I didn't know; he dealt with the machine shop. And, I don't know anything about machine shops in my area (Northern VA). Guess I'll start where allot things do ... and start making a few phone calls. The question now becomes - is there any way the machine work can be verified once you get the block back?

I'm nervous about taking this on, but it would be awesome to make this right on my own ... i.e. with the help of great guys like you from this incredible forum. You've given me allot to think about.

I'll tell you ... I am annoyed at myself that there's even a question of whether or not I should take this on ... I even have an engine hoist that I bought from a friend when I started my CJ restoration. It's just that ... as I mentioned before, I've got 2 other cars in the garage that I'm supposed to combine into 1. Got my hands full ...

Thanks so much for all the help and encouragement!! Can't tell you how much it helps ...
John
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Unread 08-13-2014, 01:27 AM   #25
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I lived about 3/4 mile from JET (Jasper Engines & Transmissions) when I was younger.
When we were into full scale racing JET contracted me and the supercharger company I was working with to help line out their new performance 'crate' engine program.

They have all the right tools, good facility ect, but I won't buy anything from them after having to inform my customers about the qualit of what they paid perfectly good money for.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 08:48 AM   #26
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I don't know if you have any dirt track racing going on near you but, if you do, go watch one night. Drink some old, stale beer from a plastic cup, have a turkey leg but, more importantly, stroll through the pits and ask who does good machine work in the area.

My first machinist was an old-timer who detailed my piston tops and labeled them #1, #2, etc, file-fitted my rings and wrapped each set in tape labeled #1, #2, etc, set my bearings and labeled them... then I had one machinist turn my rods purple hanging the pistons so you just never know. Forged SCAT's, too

Unless you want to drop a thousand dollars on bore gauges and micrometers to verify his work, you'll have to find someone with a good name. That's why I say to hit the race track. Just get in there before the season ends or you won't get out, lol.

You'll still be light years ahead of a reman.


Shawn

Edit: Oh, if you do end up at the track, make sure they know you're NOT a racer. If they think you're running recon for another team, God only knows the bs answer you're likely to get
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Unread 08-13-2014, 10:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
I lived about 3/4 mile from JET (Jasper Engines & Transmissions) when I was younger.
When we were into full scale racing JET contracted me and the supercharger company I was working with to help line out their new performance 'crate' engine program.

They have all the right tools, good facility ect, but I won't buy anything from them after having to inform my customers about the qualit of what they paid perfectly good money for.
Hey JeepHammer!!

Wow, Holy #$%@!!!, etc. etc. That's some crazy small world stuff right there. And, it's a bummer and is bad news confirming what Shawn was saying. I read your thread that he posted in one of his responses, and it made me very sad. I wish you still had your shop ... I'd figure out a way to get you my head and block ...

V/r -
John
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Unread 08-13-2014, 11:13 AM   #28
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I say find a good 4.0 core on CL and build an MPFI stroker. Mines got about 1k on it now and I am pretty happy with it. Starts right up, runs great, lots of torque, and emissions should be quite clean.

Any engine build can have problems but the few remans I have seen were put together as cheap as possible, cheapest parts, non matching rods etc. Perhaps if you could get a reman from a local shop that would be willing to go over it with you it would be different.

Rebuilding your own is not very hard, you just need a torque wrench, ring compressor, a good machine shop, and patience.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 12:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I don't know if you have any dirt track racing going on near you but, if you do, go watch one night. Drink some old, stale beer from a plastic cup, have a turkey leg but, more importantly, stroll through the pits and ask who does good machine work in the area.

My first machinist was an old-timer who detailed my piston tops and labeled them #1, #2, etc, file-fitted my rings and wrapped each set in tape labeled #1, #2, etc, set my bearings and labeled them... then I had one machinist turn my rods purple hanging the pistons so you just never know. Forged SCAT's, too

Unless you want to drop a thousand dollars on bore gauges and micrometers to verify his work, you'll have to find someone with a good name. That's why I say to hit the race track. Just get in there before the season ends or you won't get out, lol.

You'll still be light years ahead of a reman.


Shawn

Edit: Oh, if you do end up at the track, make sure they know you're NOT a racer. If they think you're running recon for another team, God only knows the bs answer you're likely to get
Hey Shawn!!

Well, now that's an inventive solution ... and sounds like allot more fun than picking up the phone!!

Thanks man ... this is a pretty depressing problem, but your response here really made me

I'm in Northern VA and ... I think there's a track down in Manassas - I'll have to check it out and will let you know how it turns out!

Thanks so much again!!!
John
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Unread 08-13-2014, 10:43 PM   #30
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Hey Guys,

Wondering if it would be wise to buy block/head on eBay for couple hundred dollars and start there? So, build up a replacement engine and still be able to use mine with the blow-by for local driving, milking it until I get the replacement built up? I know my wife won't like it, but in theory afterwards I could build up a spare, or sell it to some other poor soul who might have had luck like mine. There are a couple on eBay and the sellers mention that they came out of running vehicles. Also, can 70's engines be used in 80's Jeeps? I imagine they can, but what differences are there, i.e. will I need new mounts for power steering etc.?

BTW - I did speak to the one mechanic who I trust about rebuilding my engine ... he'll do it, but won't give me a price. Seems like having a mechanic do the rebuild could get crazy expensive ... Saw somewhere where somebody estimated 40 hrs to do the rebuild work, then you have the labor of remove/install engine, along with parts and machine work. So, at $90/hr for labor, assuming 40 hrs + 16 hrs (8 hrs remove and 8 hrs install ... conservative I think), that would be $5040 right there. Then, maybe $500 for parts (blind estimate), $800 for machine work ... so, I might be looking at $6340.00 - Wow!? Does that imply "figure out how to do it yourself" ... or what? Also, do any of you have any recommendations for quality rebuild kits? I absolutely Do Not want to do all this, just to put it together with parts from China!!

As always, your help is most greatly appreciated!!

Best regards -
John
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