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Unread 10-28-2008, 08:59 PM   #1
LTEJ
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Electronic Ignition ?

New question for you all. In researching this 82 CJ7 i read that it should have electronic ignition, and it does not it has regular points and condenser. Did I miss read or has sombody changed this. I want to go back to electronic, and I was woundering if anybody has tried the DUI set up?

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Unread 10-28-2008, 09:05 PM   #2
foggybottombob
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Search the forum for "team rush" ignition. That seems to be the big ignition upgrade for most people in this forum.
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Unread 10-28-2008, 10:31 PM   #3
Pacfanweb
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DUI is a great solution, if you don't mind spending the bucks.

Mallory also makes a great HEI for Jeeps, but for the V-8's only.
That's the best bang for the buck I've seen.

Bulltear also makes a very reasonably-priced HEI for all Jeeps....they are a Jeep-only kind of place, and build pretty much the hottest AMC engines around. So they know their stuff.
You can PM jeepsr4ever, he's the owner.

You're putting your engine's life (or at least your cam gear's) if you purchase an HEI from Ebay or one of the el-cheapo's, like you get from Summit or Jeg's. They are Chinese-made crap....some folks have luck with them, but the ones that don't have problems that are generally epic.
There was a run of distributor gears that were too hard, and they eat up cam gears on AMC's....which are very finicky about cam gears in the first place.
Some folks have bought the cheap HEI's and put better gears from MSD or Bulltear on them and done fine.
Again, jeepsr4ever is your guy if you want to know about HEI's....his place has done all the testing for most of the off-brand makers, and he knows who has crap gears and who doesn't.

Then again, you can just stick with DUI or the Bulltear HEI and not have a problem.

The other solution is to switch back to the Duraspark that your Jeep had from the factory. With that distributor, you'll be able to do the old large cap upgrade (which you can search for, some call it the team rush, but either will find the info) with a better coil, and you'll have basically the equal of an HEI in sparking power.

IMO, since you'd have to change everything anyway, the HEI is a much simpler, cleaner solution to your problem, plus it's more reliable and if it does fail you can get parts darn near anywhere. Cleaner engine compartment to boot.

There are those who don't like the HEI's because of reasons that really aren't valid, and you'll probably run into a couple of them on different Jeep forums, but there are just millions of satisfied HEI owners out there that would disagree. DUI has been around for a LONG time, building HEI's with great success. I don't know of anyone building any other type of stock-style distributors in the aftermarket, other than HEI's....they are making them for every engine imaginable, and it's not because they don't perform well.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:15 AM   #4
LTEJ
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Thanks for the input Pacfanweb
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Unread 10-29-2008, 03:29 AM   #5
John Strenk
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Yes, since he has to change the distributor anyway, might as well as look into all your options and an HEI is simple.

The more I think about the price of a DUI vs a modified DIY GM HEI, I'm beginning to think a distributor you can just drop in is worth it. I've seen a lot of post about having to swap the right gear and modify the advance and vacuum curves to get them to run right.

Of course with an Duraspark distributor and a HEI control modual, you have the best of both world.

Quote:
There are those who don't like the HEI's because of reasons that really aren't valid, and you'll probably run into a couple of them on different Jeep forums, but there are just millions of satisfied HEI owners out there that would disagree. DUI has been around for a LONG time, building HEI's with great success. I don't know of anyone building any other type of stock-style distributors in the aftermarket, other than HEI's....they are making them for every engine imaginable, and it's not because they don't perform well.
Slam me all you want but for my jeep, starting every day no matter the weather and getting 18 to 20 MPG. I'm happy with the poor $100.00 DSH system I got in it right now.

HEI conversions perform OK, not any better than e-core Duraspark disributor. The bad points about HEI distributors are valid but every ignition sysem has thier plus and minuses anyway. A lot of people are in denial that the exspensive purchase they made isn't any better than something that cost less than half of what they paid.

For every satisfied HEI owner I bet there is a MSD, Ford or Mopar or JEGS Bosch owner also. (Let's leave Lucas out of the discussion) In a jeep CJ you don't need to worry about how well your 258 is firing at 7000 RPM, You just need something reliable. If an DUI can give me another 50 HP or add 10MPG or make my 258 run on water, I'd swap it in right now.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 07:44 AM   #6
Pacfanweb
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Nothing in my post was aimed at Mr. Strenk. OP, he is one of the most knowledgeable people on any Jeep forum you'll come across. So no slam was intended, sir.

OP asked about DUI's specifically, so that's what I concentrated on.

Agree about just having a drop-in unit. I personally having everything contained is a great idea.

OP, Mr. Strenk has come up with a way to use a stock Motorcraft distributor, with an HEI module. The HEI module is a more reliable unit than the Duraspark. It involves some wiring, and if you are a "tinkerer" with some experience, you might want to read up on it.
If not, I think an HEI is the best route....it's the easiest way to go.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 08:05 AM   #7
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I have heard great things about the Team Rush ignition upgrade. Additionally, I had the DUI distributor in my old Jeep and it was AWESOME. I actually took it out of the Jeep and put in a cheapo before I sold it because I liked it so much.

If you do decide to go DUI, I recommend ordered it directly from the company. The company will adjust the curve/advance for your specific engine and engine modifications. I think I spent about $400 or so straight from the company. A tad bit more money then if you buy it somewhere else, but worth it.

The DUI is just a cleaner install. One wire going to the dizzy and thats it. You can get rid of your old module, coil, and cap and its a plug and play installation.

I will be putting mine back in at the same time I install my Howell TBI
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Unread 10-29-2008, 10:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTEJ View Post
New question for you all. In researching this 82 CJ7 i read that it should have electronic ignition, and it does not it has regular points and condenser. Did I miss read or has sombody changed this. I want to go back to electronic, and I was woundering if anybody has tried the DUI set up?
Dear LTEJ,

Welcome to the JeepForum. You are correct and your Distributor and apprears the igniton was changed. The Stock DuraSpark was mounted on the drivers fender and is a aluminum box6x6" and 2" thick or so. It still might be there. YOu can post a pic on Photobucket and put the link here and we can post and look at it to see if ignition box there. My guess there was a computer PO did not want to deal with and PO changed back to what they understood POINTS and most likely changed out the carb to a non feedback also. PIC of your carb would be good idea also.

If you do NOT have the DuraSpark Ignition Modual there are two price ranges. The cheap 25$ units have issues and do not last made in china, thee better ones will run $80 and are recommended.

AS FOR THE HEI, there are widespread problems with the HEI used in the AMC engines both the 6 & 8. NOt only are there hardened gears, too long shafts, varrying shaft diameters, too much advance, the need to recurve for your AMC engine, spark grounds out to the distributor, and there is more and more to consider. The good news there are HEI that are still good and work well w/o the gear problems. MSD and DUI are both safe and good.

Pacfanweb tells part of the truth and leves out quite bit. THIS HEI STUFF HAS BEEN HASHED OUT MULTIPLE TIMES AND JEEPFORUM ADMIN. HAS CLOSED MANY THREADS BECAUSE OF THE ARGUMENTS. SINCE I JOINED IN DECEMBER LESS THAN YEAR I HAVE READ 40 POSTERS OR SO THAT HAD COMPLETE FALIURE. THE HARDENED GEAR TOOK OUT THE CAM AND PUT ALL THE METAL SHAVINGS IN THE ENGINE. I HAVE ALSO POSTED I WOULD NOT BUY A AMC WITH A HEI UNLESS IT WAS A DUI OR MSD.

I have asked Pacfanweb many times if he is going to post and push the HEI Distributor that he at least post all the truths and other options. I have also said if this continues I will reasearch all the posts of Failed HEI Installs and save them to copy and past to put an end to this. The problem is the next reader of this Thread 6 mo from now, buys the HEI on ebay, installs the new better not hardened gear and the saft is too long and binds the oil pump when clamped down and the engine fails due to failed oil pump fuction.

Here is a good honest write up by JeepHammer on Jeep Ignition
http://www.junkyardgenius.com/igniti...EIcompair.html

I get 21 mpg with the Stock DuraSpark. I used the TEAMRUSH iginiton upgrade by JeepHammer and Ford. This uses an adapter cap, so the cap can be larger in diameter and taller so the spark gets to the correct cylinder. I requires different wires to the more modern style with male terminal on the cap. It is also recommended that grounds be added to head (s) and a gound be added to the Black wire going into the DuraSpark ignition box. These SIMPLE changes improved mileage 2.5 mpg and 15% performance in pep and rpm range. Unbelivelable and TUNE UP PARTS. This is a comparison on rebuilt 258 with all new parts to start with, wires, plugs, cap, rotar, etc. Performacne on the V8 should even be larger because of the higher rpm range. YOu can buy a 1978 Distributor rebuilt from NAPA or similar for $60 if you have the DuraSpark Modual installed still. This is fully tuneable and is much less than the $450 for the DUI. Just a consideration.

THE BEST SOLUTION nobody has mentioned yet is to buy the 1978 DuraSpark stock distributor and buy a MULTISPARK IGNITON from MSD or SUMMIT RACING. I purchased the Summit Digital MSD w/rev limiter. This is 5 full spark per fire and is better than the DuraSpark or HEI no ifs or buts. The Summit MSD can be had for as little as $130. The Digital MSD w/ Rev Limiter, $169, can be set to 4500 or 4700 rpm for the I6. VERY good thing to have if on the pedal and drive shaft breaks or something and keeps you from blowing engine. The MSD added 5 mpg to my hwy mileage but I did not notice any pep change. They even have the wire adapter so you can plug it right into the DuraSpark Distributor. With new wires this could be done for under $250.

A good coil to use with the DuraSpark or MSD is the used Ford E Coil. This can be used with 6 or 8. Can be had at the U pull JUnk yard with mtd bracket, connector, and coil for $4 and I even pulled a few extra connectors for same price. I had the orginal 30 year old oil filled coil and was still working but they do get tired.

Here is a good way to mount the used Ford E Coil in the stock location.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/tfi-ford-e-coil-installation-location-bracket-513978/

The last thing to change with the HEI, DuraSpark w/TeamRush, or the MSD Multi Spark Discharge it to open your spark plug gap to .040 to .045. This will drive the spark voltage up but still controllable. Do not go higher and do not do with the stock ignition with out doing the TeamRush you will get cross fire and arcing.

SPAREs.... I kept the duraspark igniton installed and with the plug in of the two input connectors, plug in the distributor, I have a spare trail ignition with no tools needed. I left the stock harness with not cuts and its all there.

The Cheapest option is the MSD if you do not have the DuraSpark Ignition Modual. It is also the best option and the Jeep Dealer will know how to work on the DuraSpark Distributor and it was made for the AMC engines. Low rpms with lots of torque.

Hope this helps,
Fred
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Unread 10-29-2008, 10:53 AM   #9
Pacfanweb
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And there you have it, folks. I told you you'd hear from an HEI hater.

Once again, Fjguercio comes in to crap another perfectly nice thread.

FJ, I'll ask you this one question, since you say I don't tell the whole story:

What is wrong with a QUALITY HEI, from a QUALITY company, like DUI, Mallory, or Bulltear?

I've asked you this many times, and I put it in EVERY thread I post in about distributors, yet you refuse to answer it.

You keep coming back with all the irrelevant crap about the Chinese-made HEI's....why do I say "irrelevant"?

Oh, I don't know...maybe because I ALREADY MENTIONED IT LIKE I ALWAYS DO??
Yes, you say I don't tell the whole story, but that's a complete lie. Well, you're either lying or you can't read and comprehend an entire post.

I tell people every time not to get a cheap Ebay or Chinese junk HEI. That IS telling the whole story.

OP, sorry for the misdirection of this thread, but like I mentioned before, there are a couple of people who keep doing this here....it's been going on for a little over a year.


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a QUALITY made HEI, like ones from the people I mentioned and the ones the OP asked about.

FJ, how about telling me what's wrong with an HEI from one of those three?
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Unread 10-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #10
Mike Romain
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I personally think you have the best distributor going if you plan on doing any bush runs way back in there like I do. I even checked with Mallory once to see if they still sell point setups for the 4.2 and they did at that time.

When the nearest parts store is a hundred miles away, it is sure nice to be able to repair a spark issue with a nail file or to have a simple $15.00 point and condenser pack in the glove box for a quick fix. Now I have to carry a spare distributor and spare ignition module, thankfully don't need a spare computer because I put that out of my engine's misery a long time back....
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Unread 10-29-2008, 12:05 PM   #11
LTEJ
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OK being new here I can see I have opened up a can of worms. let me clarify something. I came into this jeep at a good price it is of sound mind and body (which is rare) and I want to do it justice by putting it back like it should be. The last CJ i had, had all the electronic stuff and I got pretty familure with it (it was brand new) and in cleaning this Cj up I noticed that some things were not right. I was told from the begining that it had carb issues well that is becuase they put the wrong carb on it. It starts and runs but it is in sad shape (Choke not working, poor throttle response ect.ect.) the control module is "gone", it had a home made air cleaner sustem HAHA and huge shakles with 35s on it drives like a boat on land. (that is being corrected now, waiting on parts)
as far as the ignition goes I want something good, I have learned over the years "several" that you get what you pay for I prefer going straight to the manufacture of the product. I want to build a dependable good looking jeep to keep for several years. If it ain't a CJ it ain't a jeep as far as I am concerned, Just my opinion.
Thanks everybody for the input and lets play nice.
EJ
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:31 PM   #12
Pacfanweb
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BTW, OP, the DUI's are now 299, price was just lowered, according to 4wd Hardware's site.

With the DUI product, you have none of the issues that have been mentioned with the Chinese-made HEI's.

You CAN do the conversion back to the Duraspark system, and it'll probably be cheaper, but you didn't ask about that so I didn't cover it.

Since you have to change the whole mess anyway, I'd still lean towards the HEI setup. It'll be right from the get-go...just drop it in, set the timing, and roll.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacfanweb View Post
FJ, how about telling me what's wrong with an HEI from one of those three?
Well, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a HEI, but there's also not much advantage either. Just money thrown down the drain. A Motorcraft ignition with the large cap upgrade will fire a V8 engine just fine and parts are just as available as HEI parts, at a much smaller total cost.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbojeepman View Post
Well, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a HEI, but there's also not much advantage either. Just money thrown down the drain. A Motorcraft ignition with the large cap upgrade will fire a V8 engine just fine and parts are just as available as HEI parts, at a much smaller total cost.
And I've never said different. But a DUI like the OP asked about will be MUCH easier to get running correctly.

To get the same performance with the Motorcraft setup, he'd have to
1. Replace the distributor
2. Get a cap adapter, cap and rotor
3. Get plug wires.
4. Get a Duraspark module
5. Get the appropriate wiring if it's been cut out of his harness.
6. Get a TFI coil, or E-coil. (they came on TFI systems primarily, which is why some call it the TFI upgrade)
7. Get a hop-up kit for the new Motorcraft distributor to change your advance curve.
8. Do all this work himself.....including the trial-and-error of messing with the advance springs and weights, which is harder with the Motorcraft than an HEI.

With an DUI he'd have to:

1. Call DUI and order the distributor.
2. Buy plug wires.
3. Install the distributor and wires, set the timing.
4. Enjoy his new performance gain over the points, easier starting, and better gas mileage.

To some, that is worth the extra bucks. Plus, the HEI module is more reliable than the Duraspark (even the anti-HEI folks admit this).
Is that a lot of work for an experienced mechanic? Not really.
Might it be intimidating for a novice? Yep.
It really all depends on what the owner WANTS.
If he wants to use mostly stock parts and tinker with it, then the large cap deal is a good candidate.

If he wants a very simple solution PLUS a better-looking engine compartment, with the least amount of work possible, the QUALITY HEI is the way to go.

And to the people (Fjguercio mostly) who keep harping about the problems Jeepers have had with HEI's, remember: Those have been ONLY with the cheap, Chinese-made HEI's.
Nobody has had those gear problems with DUI's. So it's nothing to worry about.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 03:27 PM   #15
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Sorry to interrupt the regularly scheduled programing...

Suggestion.. when we post up in a thread, let's just state our own opinions/ideas and not even mention the other "party's" point of view.

No problem saying, "I like distributor X but not distributor Y because...."

The problems arise when we make statements like, "I like distributor X but some others will tell you incorrectly that distributor Y is better..." Statements like that tend to be taken personally..

Let's do the OP justice and keep this thread civil, fact filled and positive... or I'll have to lock it.
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