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Unread 06-18-2014, 03:24 PM   #1
jrskihog
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Early CJs

I am hoping someone with an early CJ3 and early CJ5 can tell mw how there ignition switch is wired. I am trying to track down a wiring problem with a 59 Willys Pickup and from what I have found they ignition systems should be the same. motor I6 226 supper hurricane.
The problem is when the headlights are on or you try and use the blower the entire jeep shuts down (engine shuts off and all electrical goes out). Wait about 5-10 secs and then all the electrical comes back and you are able to restart the jeep. If you leave the lights or the blower motor for the heat on it will just shut off again within 5-15 secs. This can also be reproduced without the jeep running and just use of the fan. TIA

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Unread 06-18-2014, 07:22 PM   #2
DanStew
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Unfortuantely the old jeeps have years and years and years and years of owners hacking and cobbling the wiring together. There were no fuse blocks, but some inline fuses. Pretty much you will need to chase all the wires down to see where they terminate. Probably the best thing to do to save sanity if you do not know wiring or like it, is get a new harness and start from scratch. Not much with the older jeeps to rewire them, but most are a nightmare and hardly any are identical.
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Unread 06-18-2014, 07:41 PM   #3
chromegrille
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Most Jeeps from that era had a factory circuit breaker built onto the headlight switch.
You could start there and check to see if it's even there.
Otherwise, you're running down the wiring for the lights and the wiring for the blower fan.
By your description, it sounds like you may a circuit breaker that is overloading then resetting .
The blower power feed could simply be connected to the headlight breaker and the creates more amperage draw than what the breaker is rated for, when both are turned on.
You could also have a short in one or both power feed wires, which would trip the circuit breaker.
I don't see this as an ignition wiring problem, but stranger things have been known to happen.
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Unread 06-18-2014, 09:25 PM   #4
jeepdaddy2000
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Do a search for an early CJ and click on images.
As Dan stated, it sounds like somebody cobbled a circuit breaker somewhere in the main wiring loom. You will have to crawl under there and try to find it. The main wiring should run from the battery/alternator/generator to the ignition switch. It may pass through an ammeter (which could be a problem as well), but all the fuses/breakers should be between the ignition switch and the various appliances. There should be no breaker in the primary ignition side, and none of the ECJ's (or early Jeeps for that matter) ran a main breaker.

File Type: pdf Renegade_I_Wiring.pdf (47.3 KB, 7 views)
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Unread 06-19-2014, 04:32 AM   #5
Mike Romain
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I would start by cleaning all the ends on the main battery and ground cables. A bad connection there can fade out like you are seeing.
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Unread 06-19-2014, 04:57 AM   #6
RWise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrskihog View Post
I am hoping someone with an early CJ3 and early CJ5 can tell mw how there ignition switch is wired. I am trying to track down a wiring problem with a 59 Willys Pickup and from what I have found they ignition systems should be the same. motor I6 226 supper hurricane.
The problem is when the headlights are on or you try and use the blower the entire jeep shuts down (engine shuts off and all electrical goes out). Wait about 5-10 secs and then all the electrical comes back and you are able to restart the jeep. If you leave the lights or the blower motor for the heat on it will just shut off again within 5-15 secs. This can also be reproduced without the jeep running and just use of the fan. TIA
This sounds like a short tripping out an auto-reset circuit breaker, which would not have been there. Bad connections and grounds.
Do the lights/blower come on as they should until it shuts down?
Does the charging system sound loaded down while the lights/blower are on?
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Unread 06-19-2014, 06:32 AM   #7
DanStew
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The Jeep commandos used to have one large circuit breaker and it caused alot of fires behind the dash. The one i had was on its way to burning up, the wires were precharred when i got the Jeep
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Unread 06-19-2014, 07:43 AM   #8
duffer
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I think the circuit breaker on the light switch has been used as the power source for everything else. Originally, that breaker only feed lights and having a short in the lighting harness would not affect the ignition. First thing I would do is try to trace down the source for the ign side of the switch. It should go to the starter as in the diagram posted above. The blower should be wired through the "acc" post on the switch and would have had an in-line fuse. Next, you need to find the short (s) causing the breaker to blow with either lights or blower motor. For the lights, you can disconnect that three post terminal block to help isolate the problem. The blower motor will just be sorting through the rats nest behind the dash. Good luck with your back.
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Unread 06-19-2014, 09:30 AM   #9
jrskihog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanStew View Post
Unfortuantely the old jeeps have years and years and years and years of owners hacking and cobbling the wiring together. There were no fuse blocks, but some inline fuses. Pretty much you will need to chase all the wires down to see where they terminate. Probably the best thing to do to save sanity if you do not know wiring or like it, is get a new harness and start from scratch. Not much with the older jeeps to rewire them, but most are a nightmare and hardly any are identical.
Yes I thought about getting a new harness or just rewire it, most of the wires i have traced are good

Quote:
Originally Posted by chromegrille View Post
Most Jeeps from that era had a factory circuit breaker built onto the headlight switch.
You could start there and check to see if it's even there.
Otherwise, you're running down the wiring for the lights and the wiring for the blower fan.
By your description, it sounds like you may a circuit breaker that is overloading then resetting .
The blower power feed could simply be connected to the headlight breaker and the creates more amperage draw than what the breaker is rated for, when both are turned on.
You could also have a short in one or both power feed wires, which would trip the circuit breaker.
I don't see this as an ignition wiring problem, but stranger things have been known to happen.
Everything works as it should until it shuts down, didn't think about the headlight switch but it does seem alot is powered from that i will take it back down and check

[quote=jeepdaddy2000;23711698]Do a search for an early CJ and click on images.
As Dan stated, it sounds like somebody cobbled a circuit breaker somewhere in the main wiring loom. You will have to crawl under there and try to find it. The main wiring should run from the battery/alternator/generator to the ignition switch. It may pass through an ammeter (which could be a problem as well), but all the fuses/breakers should be between the ignition switch and the various appliances. There should be no breaker in the primary ignition side, and none of the ECJ's (or early Jeeps for that matter) ran a main breaker.

Shouldnt the engine stay running when the power goes out if there is nothing between the battery and the ignition switch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWise View Post
This sounds like a short tripping out an auto-reset circuit breaker, which would not have been there. Bad connections and grounds.
Do the lights/blower come on as they should until it shuts down?
Does the charging system sound loaded down while the lights/blower are on?
The alternator does not seem loaded and it is not showing loaded when running on the amp meter someone perviously installed. Never goes above 20-25 amps

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffer View Post
I think the circuit breaker on the light switch has been used as the power source for everything else. Originally, that breaker only feed lights and having a short in the lighting harness would not affect the ignition. First thing I would do is try to trace down the source for the ign side of the switch. It should go to the starter as in the diagram posted above. The blower should be wired through the "acc" post on the switch and would have had an in-line fuse. Next, you need to find the short (s) causing the breaker to blow with either lights or blower motor. For the lights, you can disconnect that three post terminal block to help isolate the problem. The blower motor will just be sorting through the rats nest behind the dash. Good luck with your back.
Thats what im trying to figure out where the power is coming into the cab still have to trace a few more wires and hopefully move the power draw off of the ignition side and yes it will be back breaking to finish up. The power wire for the fan was missing, someone put a fuse block down by the clutch so that adds to the mess of tracking down wires. My dad said he changed the ignition switch about 15 yrs ago because it would randomly shut off. so of course he didn't look for the problem, but it also wouldn't randomly shut off after he swapped it out from another Willys he had.
The only problem is the wires connected to the ignition are short and the switch doesn't hang down that far to get a good look at the back of it, but I do see a few connectors with no wires attached to them. Thanks
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Unread 06-19-2014, 12:46 PM   #10
jrskihog
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Found the culprit the circuit breaker under the hood it is wired from the starter solenoid to the amp meter from the aunt meter to the circuit breaker circuit breaker supplies power to the horn and light switch in the light switch is providing power to the ignition switch and everything else. I don't see a 14 gage wire supplying enough power and amps for everything. Someone got rid of the voltage regulator which serves as a distribution block or this is what they replaced it with when they upgraded from a generator to an alternator. I still can't find out how the fan is supposed to be wired up if it's through the light switch, ignition switch, or some other way.

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Unread 06-19-2014, 08:37 PM   #11
jeepdaddy2000
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Unfortunately, it sounds like you have multiple wiring issues. My suggestion is to start from scratch and build it right. You can use the CJ diagram I supplied or build one using a marine or salvage yard fuse block. If you go system by system you can do this rather easily. Be sure to post a picture of the existing alternator so we can give you some idea how to wire it.

Main circuits are the ignition system (primary) no fuse
Charging system no fuse
lights usually 25 amp
Heater motor usually 25 amp
turn signals/brakes usaually15 amp
Instrument cluster/horn/radio/ uaually15 amp
Whatever else you decide to include (fog lights, amps, cigarette lighter/power port etc....)

By installing a hot lead to a fuse block, then running each of these circuits through the appropriate fuse, you can build a simple loom. Insure your hot lead is large enough to handle the load, or run two and split the fuse block.
If you use a junk yard box, get all the wiring you can from the car and shorten each leg you use. This will give you labeled fuses for each circuit. If you build one from scratch, be sure to research wiring gauge so you can match the wire diameter to the appropriately amped fuse.

Doing this and cleaning up the engine bay will garner you a simple, reliable, and clean wiring loom that will last you for many years.
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Unread 06-20-2014, 07:12 AM   #12
zillla
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Try over at earlycj5.net... Lots of info on old Jeeps over there
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Unread 06-21-2014, 08:01 AM   #13
jrskihog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
Unfortunately, it sounds like you have multiple wiring issues. My suggestion is to start from scratch and build it right. You can use the CJ diagram I supplied or build one using a marine or salvage yard fuse block. If you go system by system you can do this rather easily. Be sure to post a picture of the existing alternator so we can give you some idea how to wire it.

Main circuits are the ignition system (primary) no fuse
Charging system no fuse
lights usually 25 amp
Heater motor usually 25 amp
turn signals/brakes usaually15 amp
Instrument cluster/horn/radio/ uaually15 amp
Whatever else you decide to include (fog lights, amps, cigarette lighter/power port etc....)

By installing a hot lead to a fuse block, then running each of these circuits through the appropriate fuse, you can build a simple loom. Insure your hot lead is large enough to handle the load, or run two and split the fuse block.
If you use a junk yard box, get all the wiring you can from the car and shorten each leg you use. This will give you labeled fuses for each circuit. If you build one from scratch, be sure to research wiring gauge so you can match the wire diameter to the appropriately amped fuse.

Doing this and cleaning up the engine bay will garner you a simple, reliable, and clean wiring loom that will last you for many years.
I am just going to build one from scratch as I have most of the stuff from projects on the TJ. After looking at the wiring from the Alternator I am not sure it is wired up correctly. My dad was told the alternator is a chrysler. Any help with that part of the wiring would be great.
the blue wire goes to the amp meter and then the green wire comes back to power the circuit breaker that keeps reseting and the red wire goes to the headlight switch to power everything.
It seems that one of the pictures got messed up the black wire from the alternator goes to the box that the text was half cut off on. If I understand the was this is recharging the system it is though the little 14 ga green wire to the ignition, as the black wire is 10 or 8 ga
image-8-.jpeg

image-7-.jpeg

image-6-.jpeg

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Unread 06-21-2014, 11:00 PM   #14
jeepdaddy2000
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Looks like this


This is an old Chrysler system. Might be a good idea to upgrade to a Delco unit

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Unread 06-22-2014, 03:23 AM   #15
RWise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrskihog View Post
I am just going to build one from scratch as I have most of the stuff from projects on the TJ. After looking at the wiring from the Alternator I am not sure it is wired up correctly. My dad was told the alternator is a chrysler. Any help with that part of the wiring would be great.
the blue wire goes to the amp meter and then the green wire comes back to power the circuit breaker that keeps reseting and the red wire goes to the headlight switch to power everything.
It seems that one of the pictures got messed up the black wire from the alternator goes to the box that the text was half cut off on. If I understand the was this is recharging the system it is though the little 14 ga green wire to the ignition, as the black wire is 10 or 8 ga
I dont think that alt~r will work like that, both the terminals/fields on it should go to the regulator. One of them will get power from the ignition the other is controlled by the regulator to ground. I myself like the Chrysler alternator, and have never had any problems with one other than the brushes were out, but you can change them without dismounting the unit. I would get the mopar regulator that goes with it and wire it in.
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