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Unread 12-09-2007, 07:46 AM   #16
petey156
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my jeep has a sending unit for the oil pressure guage, with this circuit work for the switch?

thanks for all the wonderful info and help!!

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Unread 12-09-2007, 10:02 AM   #17
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petey156
my jeep has a sending unit for the oil pressure gauge, with this circuit work for the switch?

thanks for all the wonderful info and help!!
Nope, but I allow for that sending unit when you build the oil pressure manifold block, see the 'Print' drawing below,


Instead of one threaded hole in the side, You will have two, one for the pressure line 'In' and one for the electric gauge sending unit.

If you look at the side of this one, where the single hole is, it's marked for two more holes. By simply drilling and threading one of these extra holes, you can install your stock pressure gauge sending unit, and the large head of that sending unit will just be hanging off the inner fender well, instead of hanging off the block.


Last edited by JeepHammer; 12-09-2007 at 01:49 PM..
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Unread 12-09-2007, 11:16 AM   #18
kappa505
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I am positive that I want to do the dual batteries, my wife is more apt to not make comments about spending money on this as it will allow her to keep parking in the garage (she hates scraping ice from windows). I picked up an oil switch today to do the self isolating setup with the relays (which I will get soon). I dont remember seeing any fuseable links anywhere under the hood when I was putting the motor back in.

The battery goes dead (so no failed fuseable links) overnight in the winter, but in the summer it will last a few days. It did start this morning after the oil change and contact cleaning. I will get the charging system tested before I do anything else. Thanks so much for your help.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 01:57 PM   #19
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kappa505
I picked up an oil switch today to do the self isolating setup with the relays (which I will get soon). I dont remember seeing any fuseable links anywhere under the hood when I was putting the motor back in.
Have a looks at the battery cable side of the starter solenoid. There should be at least three wires hooked up there, and the first 4" or so of all of them is a fusible link.
One should be to the alternator, Another is the master power to the fuse block and ignition, the third is the master power to the headlights.
There may be more depending on how your system is wired.

Quote:
The battery goes dead (so no failed fuseable links) overnight in the winter, but in the summer it will last a few days.
You DO have a drain somewhere.
It might be an alternator with a bad regulator or rectifier, or it may be a radio or some other device with 'Memory'...
But your battery should last AT LEAST A MONTH in charged but idle condition.

Quote:
It did start this morning after the oil change and contact cleaning. I will get the charging system tested before I do anything else.
You also might want to look for the drain in your system, when you get ready to, let me know, and we'll go over a good way to track it down.

Quote:
Thanks so much for your help.
No problem, just wasting time on a raining day...
(Avoiding 'Honey-Do' projects too.
If I look busy, she leaves me alone.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 02:20 PM   #20
kappa505
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Nope, no fuseable links anywhere (they are just a wire with a fuse inline right). I dont have a radio, believe it or not so it wouldnt be that. I do have some wires here an there that are not connected to anything but have that rubber boot on them so they shouldnt be drawing any current right. Things like the two that plug into the cigarette lighter. Under the hood there are a few more which I have no Idea where they go. i dont have any of the emmissions stuff so I assumed that they are from them. I can take pics tomorrow. I want to find the problem before i go home for christmas for a month, then do the dual battery setup when I get back before school starts. I hear it gets wicked cold up here around jan/feb so I want to get everything squared away. Today I changed my thermostat to 195, and added a ground to the starter.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 07:52 PM   #21
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kappa505
Nope, no fuseable links anywhere (they are just a wire with a fuse inline right).
NO!
A fusible link is a piece of fused wire.
It's made of several different compounds that will burn through if exposed to too much current draw.

It will look like a regular piece of wire, but if you take a very close look at it, you will find it's about 4" or 5" long, ring terminal on one end, and a butt 'Crimp' connector on the other where it connects to the regular wire.

The insulation will feel a little 'Rubbery', but otherwise it will looks just like any other wire...
The insulation is designed to contain all but the most violent 'Burn Throughs'.

You should always go at least TWO wires sizes smaller on a Fusible link than the wire you are protecting.
The idea being the fusible link be the WEAKEST link in the circuit.
I recommend you go FOUR WIRE SIZES SMALLER than the wire you are protecting.

IE:
10 Ga. wire, use a 14 Ga. fusible link.
12 Ga. wire, use a 16 Ga. fusible link.
14 Ga. wire, use a 18 Ga. fusible link.
Ect...

Once installed with a little heat shrink tubing to protect the connections, Fusible links don't need any maintenance, they are impervious to the elements (something you can't say about fuses and fuse sockets!)
And are very easy to carry and use.

Quote:
I dont have a radio, believe it or not so it wouldn't be that. I do have some wires here an there that are not connected to anything but have that rubber boot on them so they shouldnt be drawing any current right.(?)
Clipped and sealed end wires shouldn't be the problem...
If they are just hanging, where they can swing around and touch things, a wire with power WILL weld it's self to something and cause problems!

Quote:
Things like the two that plug into the cigarette lighter. Under the hood there are a few more which I have no Idea where they go. i dont have any of the emmissions stuff so I assumed that they are from them. I can take pics tomorrow. I want to find the problem before i go home for christmas for a month, then do the dual battery setup when I get back before school starts. I hear it gets wicked cold up here around jan/feb so I want to get everything squared away. Today I changed my thermostat to 195, and added a ground to the starter.
Get a multi-meter from Wally-World for about $10, set it to volts, remove the NEGATIVE battery cable from the battery, and connect your multimeter between the battery cable and the battery post...
The drain should show up as voltage. About 1/2 volt is normal...Leakage through switches, corrosion in connectors creating current paths, ect.

Loosen the smaller wires from the battery cable side of the starter solenoid, but leave the batter cable on there.
Touch one at a time to the starter solenoid post and watch the meter.

One will be the wire to the alternator.
Leakage through the alternator is common, so it's a definite possibility.

Depending on your year, one will be the feed for your head light switch.
Head lights are on a different circuit from all other lights and have their own circuit breaker built into the switch, so depending on the wiring harness, they have their own feed line.

One will be the feed for the fuse block.
If this is the one that is causing problems, then you will have to pull one fuse at a time until you find the offending circuit,
Then check the wiring diagram for the items on that circuit, lighter, dome light, radio, ect. are often grouped together.
Then you will have to check each item on that circuit.
Better than having to change each and every item in the jeep!

If there is anything connected to the positive side of the battery, you will have to pull those wires and check them one at a time also...

Here is a hint, those power cords with transformers you plug into cigarette lighters are MURDER on batteries if your cigarette lighter is 'ON' when the key is off!
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Unread 12-09-2007, 08:16 PM   #22
kappa505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
NO!
A fusible link is a piece of fused wire.
It's made of several different compounds that will burn through if exposed to too much current draw.
I thought that I saw some at the parts store that just had an inline fuse.
It will look like a regular piece of wire, but if you take a very close look at it, you will find it's about 4" or 5" long, ring terminal on one end, and a butt 'Crimp' connector on the other where it connects to the regular wire.
Will check that tomorrow
The insulation will feel a little 'Rubbery', but otherwise it will looks just like any other wire...
The insulation is designed to contain all but the most violent 'Burn Throughs'.

You should always go at least TWO wires sizes smaller on a Fusible link than the wire you are protecting.
The idea being the fusible link be the WEAKEST link in the circuit.
I recommend you go FOUR WIRE SIZES SMALLER than the wire you are protecting.

IE:
10 Ga. wire, use a 14 Ga. fusible link.
12 Ga. wire, use a 16 Ga. fusible link.
14 Ga. wire, use a 18 Ga. fusible link.
Ect...

Once installed with a little heat shrink tubing to protect the connections, Fusible links don't need any maintenance, they are impervious to the elements (something you can't say about fuses and fuse sockets!)
And are very easy to carry and use.



Clipped and sealed end wires shouldn't be the problem...
If they are just hanging, where they can swing around and touch things, a wire with power WILL weld it's self to something and cause problems!



Get a multi-meter from Wally-World for about $10, set it to volts, remove the NEGATIVE battery cable from the battery, and connect your multimeter between the battery cable and the battery post...
The drain should show up as voltage. About 1/2 volt is normal...Leakage through switches, corrosion in connectors creating current paths, ect.

Loosen the smaller wires from the battery cable side of the starter solenoid, but leave the batter cable on there.
Touch one at a time to the starter solenoid post and watch the meter.
I should be grounding the other end of the voltmeter to the battery correct?
One will be the wire to the alternator.
Leakage through the alternator is common, so it's a definite possibility.

Depending on your year, one will be the feed for your head light switch.
Head lights are on a different circuit from all other lights and have their own circuit breaker built into the switch, so depending on the wiring harness, they have their own feed line.
If one of the wire circuits is drawing current, the voltage will drop right.
One will be the feed for the fuse block.
If this is the one that is causing problems, then you will have to pull one fuse at a time until you find the offending circuit,
Then check the wiring diagram for the items on that circuit, lighter, dome light, radio, ect. are often grouped together.
Then you will have to check each item on that circuit.
Better than having to change each and every item in the jeep!
No lighter, no dome light, no radio. So basically there are only three circuits that come from the starter solenoid, the "starting circuit" the "headlight" circuit and the "fuse box" circuit with every thing that is involved in the fuse box(things that are plugged into it)?
If there is anything connected to the positive side of the battery, you will have to pull those wires and check them one at a time also...

Here is a hint, those power cords with transformers you plug into cigarette lighters are MURDER on batteries if your cigarette lighter is 'ON' when the key is off!
I have pretty much all day to work on this tomorrow so I will get on it, thanks again
quoted in your quote.
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"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Supposedly President Coolidge

Last edited by kappa505; 12-09-2007 at 08:29 PM..
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Unread 12-09-2007, 09:43 PM   #23
JeepHammer
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Quote:
I should be grounding the other end of the voltmeter to the battery correct?
That's what, "Between the battery cable and the battery post" means.

Quote:
If one of the wire circuits is drawing current, the voltage will drop right.
NO.
With everything off, all circuits should be dead, or in proper terminology, 'Open'.
0 (zero) voltage moving from chassis ground to battery.

Voltage will increase as you use something, and that current flow needs to seek ground.

If you have a draw somewhere, clock, cell phone charger, lamp left on, ect.
IT will show voltage moving through the meter.

Quote:
No lighter, no dome light, no radio. So basically there are only three circuits that come from the starter solenoid, the "starting circuit" the "headlight" circuit and the "fuse box" circuit with every thing that is involved in the fuse box(things that are plugged into it)?
Some of the older jeeps only have two circuits, one to the alternator, one divided between the headlights, fuse box and primary ignition.
If you don't have a least two fusible links connected to the battery cable side of the starter solenoid, there is something TERRIBLY WRONG!

Once the primary feed hits the fuse box, it goes several directions.
SO,
If you find it's the fuse block primary, then start pulling fuses one at a time until the draw drops, then you know what fuse is powering the leaking circuit....

Now you are down to tracking the points of 1 circuit, instead of every electrical component on the vehicle...
...................

If you only have two fusible links hooked to the starter solenoid, then the one that feeds the Fuse block also feeds the headlights and ignition primary.

Headlight take their power BEFORE the fuse block, so there is no fuse for the head lights.
This is a safety issue, so if the fuse block decides to do something stupid, the head lights don't go out!

The head light Primary wire is protected by a fusible link, and the head light circuit is further protected a circuit breaker built into the head light switch.
The idea is if something goes wrong with the head light wiring, the breaker will open the circuit, but then allow the circuit to work again so you don't have a complete black out while driving.
If something happens to the headlight primary wire, the fusible link will blow, and keep the wire from catching fire.

All other lights will have fuses in the fuse block.
You life doesn't depend on brake or tail lights they way your life depends on headlights...

Primary (Starting) ignition circuit bypasses the fuse block also. It's protected by the fusible link.

The 'Run' ignition circuit has a fuse in the block.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 10:00 PM   #24
kappa505
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That sounds easy enough to do. I will add the fuseable links between the solenoid and the alternator, fuse box, and headlights circuits.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Supposedly President Coolidge
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Unread 12-09-2007, 10:05 PM   #25
73jeep
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or you can use one of these and not have to mess with oil pressure switches.http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf
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Unread 12-09-2007, 10:09 PM   #26
kappa505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73jeep
or you can use one of these and not have to mess with oil pressure switches.http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf
I am sort of poor.
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"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Supposedly President Coolidge
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Unread 12-10-2007, 12:20 AM   #27
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73jeep
or you can use one of these and not have to mess with oil pressure switches.http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf
Yup, $277.99 for that thing, which you have to send back to the company that built it for service...
OR,
$10 for a oil pressure switch,
$10 for a second starter solenoid,
off the shelf at any auto parts store...

Only you can decide how deep your pockets are.

You have to buy battery cables for each battery anyway, so that is a wash...
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Unread 12-10-2007, 12:21 AM   #28
JeepHammer
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Quote:
That sounds easy enough to do. I will add the fuseable links between the solenoid and the alternator, fuse box, and headlights circuits.
Should already be there.
Just look for a crimp connector or plastic collar on the wire about 4 or 5 inches from the ring terminal.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 05:13 AM   #29
jeepdaddy2000
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I have to ask, did the original poster get his question answered? I have yet to see a reply as to why a dual battery set up was needed in the first place. While all this discussion is cool, it gives all kinds of complicated options without any specific reconditions.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 07:05 AM   #30
petey156
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Yes, I am going to go with that last diagram with the oil pressure switch controlling a solenoid.

is the solenoid a regular ignition one, or is it something special for continous use?
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