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Unread 10-20-2013, 10:41 AM   #31
83vert
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Nice job Matt, I have said it before but your stuff is always spotless. Keep us updated too

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Unread 10-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #32
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George,

I plan to mount the isolator on the firewall above the batteries and I wanted to keep the cable from the backup battery to the isolator as short as possible, hence the orientation of the backup battery. There's nearly 4" from the hood to the positive lug, so I think shorting out should not be an issue. I agree, a more stable hold down is probably in order.

Keith and 83vert, thanks for the kind words. I'll post an update when my isolator gets here and I get it all put together.

Matt
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Unread 10-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #33
chris989604
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Hey gentlemen,

I've decided to upgrade to dual batteries.

As usual, I've done quite a bit of research, but I'm still confused over which system is better.

The Hammer advocates constant duty solenoids, but his arguments seem a little dated. I've had another member recommend using the Hellroaring Isolator and remote switch, stating the install is much easier and the newer technology makes it a superior system.

I don't really understand the difference and I was hoping a few of you could explain it in layman's terms.

Thanks

Matt
Matt,
I installed a marine battery switch, Never had to worry about any electronic failures and I could isolate the batteries without worry. I would only use one battery at a time when wheeling in case of a short. If i had to winch someone i would use both at the same time.

THe set up has been in for 15 years now and never an issue.

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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:07 PM   #34
Matt1981CJ7
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Howdy genglemen,

Another update. Today, I received my Hellroaring isolator shortly after returning home with the materials to build my cables. So the fun began.

I went with #2 ga welding cable, brass terminals, and marine style top post lugs. I crimped, soldered, and shrink-wrapped all the cables.

The isolator install was simple. The Hellroaring package was complete, and the instructions were thorough. George will be happy to see I added a more stable hold down to my tray. All I have left is to hook up the remote switch, tidy up some wires, and this mod is complete.

Thanks for all the help.

Matt
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:15 PM   #35
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Well executed!! And done in a timely fashion. The HR I/C is tiny by isolator standards. How was the actual install and instruction detail? The final draft of the hold down looks good too. HR must have sent that thing to you by sling shot, seems like you had it fast.

If you dn't mind or find it inappropriate, what did the HR set you back?

WSS

PS, is that fuel line around the inner + post?
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:35 PM   #36
Matt1981CJ7
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WSS,

Thanks!

The Hellroaring kit wasn't cheap. I think it was around $200. The remote switch was a little extra. Cables and hardware was probably $80. Batteries...well...just bend over.

The instructions were outstanding, even an electrical retard, like me, could follow them easily.

I just fired up the engine and immediately noticed a much stronger crank from the starter. That was with the main battery only, the backup was isolated. I think the improvement is due to the upgraded cables and fresh battery. I bet she spins like a top with both batteries engaged.

PS: That's 5/8" fuel line I slipped over my winch cable for added protection.

Matt
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #37
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5-90, I have read your post here and am not understanding a few terms. I googled "en banc" and it is a French legal term LOL. I see you have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject and I would like to understand completely.
"en banc" can also refer to a number of cells wired directly together without intervening electronics - in series, parallel, or series/parallel hookups. An automotive battery is a set of six 2.1VDC cells, for a total of 12.6VDC. The cells are connected en banc in series (voltage is additive,) and if one cell should "go dead," it will pull the other cells down with it.

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When you say "cut", does that translate to "open" line/switched off?
"Cut in" - switched ON, added to circuit, whatever.
"Cut out" - switched OFF, removed from circuit, whatever.

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Does flat mean dead?
Correct. "Flat battery" = "dead battery." (My use of language is an interesting mix of Midwestern American English, British English, Australian English, International English, and assorted "trade dialectizations" - which is where I get such interesting abbreviations...)

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Whats a trigger lead?
A "trigger lead" is simply a variety of "sense lead" - if you were to pull, say, a "switched 12VDC lead" from the ignition switch circuit ("Hot in RUN," for instance, where the circuit only has power with the key in the RUN position,) and use that to switch on a relay or solenoid, that would be a "trigger lead." (FYI, there are three basic power classifications in a vehicle - "Always Hot," "Hot in Run," or "Hot in ACC" (the last is hot with the key in ACC or RUN.) The latter two may be branched as low-current trigger leads (the typical relay or solenoid requires 150-500mA to trip.)

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Sorry to be tediuous!
Don't be! I'd rather you asked questions to clarify than you guessed and got it wrong!

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I am putting together all my parts right now, I should be building this system next week (If "work" does not get in the way). I am not clear on what my best option is, isolator or CD relay (solenoid). I will need 24v to weld and I would like to be able to put both batts to work during winching.
I don't know how to switch series/parallel for charging offhand, you may have to dig around for that (I'm sure it's doable, I just don't know how.) Essentially, you need to be able to switch between having the batteries connected in parallel (voltage static, current additive) to charge, and then switch to series (voltage additive, current static) - which may be more easily done manually. NB: In this case, you definitely want batteries matched for this!

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My CJ currently has a yellow Opitma (deep cycle) that is two years old, should I try to find one the same age (easy actually, my local oreillys has one that has been there at least that long)?
The longest I've heard of an automotive battery lasting? My granddad bought a 1972 Datsun pickup, brand-new. When he sold it in 1994, it still had the factory battery in it! Outside of that, use and environment are the major factors.

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Matt, sorry to seem hi-jacky.
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Unread 10-22-2013, 05:59 AM   #38
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Matt it looks good! Did you tie the grounds together at the same place?
I ran a jumper from negative to negative post I did this in case one of the grounds failed or had a slightly different resistance value.
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Unread 10-22-2013, 06:18 AM   #39
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Thanks George,

I ran both battery grounds to the same bolt on the block at the engine mount. Do you recommend a jumper between the - posts in addition to what I have? What would slightly different resistance in the grounds do to the system?

My kit also included a 150 amp fuse. I'm a little foggy on where I should stick that. Any suggestions?

Matt
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Unread 10-22-2013, 11:32 AM   #40
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If they terminate at the same location I wouldnt worry about it.
I didnt use the fuse and have had no problems.
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Unread 10-22-2013, 11:58 AM   #41
83vert
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I'm adding this to the list of mods for sure
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Unread 10-22-2013, 01:07 PM   #42
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It is a tidy installation, however I wouldn't count on those wing nuts staying tight. I'd use nylocks.
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Unread 10-22-2013, 01:45 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
"en banc" can also refer to a number of cells wired directly together without intervening electronics - in series, parallel, or series/parallel hookups. An automotive battery is a set of six 2.1VDC cells, for a total of 12.6VDC. The cells are connected en banc in series (voltage is additive,) and if one cell should "go dead," it will pull the other cells down with it.



"Cut in" - switched ON, added to circuit, whatever.
"Cut out" - switched OFF, removed from circuit, whatever.



Correct. "Flat battery" = "dead battery." (My use of language is an interesting mix of Midwestern American English, British English, Australian English, International English, and assorted "trade dialectizations" - which is where I get such interesting abbreviations...)



A "trigger lead" is simply a variety of "sense lead" - if you were to pull, say, a "switched 12VDC lead" from the ignition switch circuit ("Hot in RUN," for instance, where the circuit only has power with the key in the RUN position,) and use that to switch on a relay or solenoid, that would be a "trigger lead." (FYI, there are three basic power classifications in a vehicle - "Always Hot," "Hot in Run," or "Hot in ACC" (the last is hot with the key in ACC or RUN.) The latter two may be branched as low-current trigger leads (the typical relay or solenoid requires 150-500mA to trip.)



Don't be! I'd rather you asked questions to clarify than you guessed and got it wrong!



I don't know how to switch series/parallel for charging offhand, you may have to dig around for that (I'm sure it's doable, I just don't know how.) Essentially, you need to be able to switch between having the batteries connected in parallel (voltage static, current additive) to charge, and then switch to series (voltage additive, current static) - which may be more easily done manually. NB: In this case, you definitely want batteries matched for this!



The longest I've heard of an automotive battery lasting? My granddad bought a 1972 Datsun pickup, brand-new. When he sold it in 1994, it still had the factory battery in it! Outside of that, use and environment are the major factors.
Big thanks! I have the 24v worked out, it is best to have the batts disconnected from the Jeep's electrical system. I will not be able to charge while welding but apparently, I can weld for on 1/4" plate for 20min solid and still be able to start the Jeep. That should be OK.

I will be using a handful of Anderson connectors to make a "yoke" that will be arranged for 24v when plugged in.

English idioms are hard enough, then throw in Australian! Get your bonnet up on your ute straight away. LOL
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Unread 10-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #44
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It is a tidy installation, however I wouldn't count on those wing nuts staying tight. I'd use nylocks.
Stick a star washer under the wingnut if you feel they may loosen but dry cells don't expand and contract as much as wet celled batts.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 06:39 AM   #45
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Mornin' gentlemen,

Here's the final install. I took Hubs advice and used nylocks on the top post terminals. I also installed the 150 amp fuse (just right of the isolator) for some added protection. Lastly, I re-routed the winch cable and accessory wiring to the side terminals of the main battery, which tidied the wiring up a little more.

Unfortunately, the LED light on the remote switch was no good. The switch worked but the little indicator LED didn't. Hellroaring is sending be another switch.

I tested the system and all seems well. In "automatic" mode (both batteries get charged but the backup is isolated from loads), with the engine at high idle, both batteries are showing 14.58 volts. At normal idle they show 14.28 volts. So the alternator and isolator are both doing their jobs.

Matt
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