Didn't preload T 176 when I rebuilt it. What now? - JeepForum.com
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Unread 08-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #1
Shlomi
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Didn't preload T 176 when I rebuilt it. What now?

How do I cancel end play of the mainshaft?
I also have some play in the gears left to right. How could it be cancelled?
I suffer from wining noise in first to third since I rebuilt it a month ago, and according to many others opinions it is caused by unset preload.
Also, do you believe the main clutch shaft bearing was damaged in that month? It is new.

Thanks.

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Unread 08-21-2013, 10:47 AM   #2
LumpyGrits
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Rebuild it 'rite' this time.
The endplay is what's kill'n you pilot bearing.
You set the preload with shims...
LG
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Unread 08-24-2013, 08:28 AM   #3
Shlomi
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Preloading it is done by checking the gap only in the end of the mainshaft or should I put the filler gauge in each gear? and if I find too much slop what shim can I use?
Simply apply another thrust washer in a place i find slop?
After finishing, and when the mainshaft will be in place with the bearing, should i still be able to move the gears a little bit? Can I know there is enough pressure on the bearing?

Please try to tell me more about all this, as I dont have much experience in this, and today I took the tranny off again in order to fix all this, and I really want to make this whining noise pass.

Thanks a lot.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 08:45 AM   #4
shadoow
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the whine you have in first to third probably has something to do with the counter shaft cause the counter shaft carries a load in first to third gears. Fourth gear is a 1:1 ratio so only the main shaft and input shafts are carrying to load and the counter shaft just spins.
What instructions are you using for your rebuild? The instructions shows you where to check end play and what the specs are.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 09:49 AM   #5
Shlomi
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I used a manual I found in google, I dont know how its called, but its the most popular one I think. In it they say to check with a filler gauge in three points: reverse shaft, countershaft, and the end play in the last snap ring(near third gear).
Still, I can move the first gear left and right about 1.5 mm, so should it be like that? prehaps I should replace the first gear thrust washer. I simply dont see how all this creates the necessary pressure on the clutch shaft bearing, if its the one making the noise.
About the countershaft idea, you may very much be correct, but that would mean that replacing the countershaft thrust washers will cancel that option?
also, the pressure on the mainshaft on 1-3 gears is also different from the pressure on 4th, so i dont know if it rules it out.
I did replace the countershaft roller bearings, and the countershaft rod itself(not the cluster).
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Unread 08-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #6
John Strenk
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Left to right?
Are you sure all the needle bearings are in place?
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Unread 08-24-2013, 01:09 PM   #7
Shlomi
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The movement left and right i was refering to the gears on the mainshaft. I can move each of them by hand left and right on the mainshaft a little bit. If I can do that, then it sounds obvious that there's no pressure on the input shaft bearing.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #8
shadoow
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what was your measurement between the 3rd/4th gear synchronizer and the snap ring??
When you move the gears left/right are they installed in the case, sitting on the work bench, ??? There is a tabbed thrust washer and snap ring between 2nd and 3rd gear so movement back and forth from 3rd gear and the 3rd/4th gear synchronizer is restricted to by that snapring and the one on the outside of the 3rd/4th gear synchronizer. First gear movement is restricted by its thrust washer, which mates with the rear case bearing, and the snap ring between 2nd and 3rd gear.
when i rebuilt mine i remember have some movement in the gears on the shaft, but did not measure it. I made sure the feeler gage measurements were in spec though and to get the proper end play on the 3rd/4th gear synchronizer and snap ring i had to change the 2nd/3rd gear tabbed thrust washer and/or snap rings.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 10:58 PM   #9
Shlomi
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I see, Ill do that, and I hope it'll fix this whining noise. I'll replace the countershaft thrust washers also just to make sure.
I ask myself whether I should replace the input bearing even that its new, because perhaps it's damaged or something.
Any other tips for fixxing this?? I hate this noise.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 07:36 AM   #10
shadoow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shlomi View Post
I'll replace the countershaft thrust washers also just to make sure.
and verify all the needle bearings are installed properly in the counter shaft/cluster gear. Also look at the bearing surfaces on the inside of both ends of the cluster gear where the needle bearings go to ensure there's no scoring on the surfaces. Same thing on the surfaces of the counter shaft where the needle bearings ride.
And again verify counter shaft and main shaft end plays are in spec.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 10:55 AM   #11
agear
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When I bought my rebuilt t176, it made a grinding whining noise. It turned out one of the countershaft/clustergear thrustwashers had fallen off when they assembled the transmission. I found the thrustwasher chewed in some gear teeth. The countershaft was free to moved forward and back right much and should not have been able to. Replacing the thrustwasher fixed that grinding noise.
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1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 01:55 PM   #12
Shlomi
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Thanks.
I actually have another noise, which happens only when decelerating in 3rd gear. It sound completly different, not a whine, but fast seperate ticking sounds, as if you can actually hear something rotating hitting something else every round.
Do you belive the two noises come from the same reason? I cant find the reason why would a bad input bearing or off preload cause this.
What could it be?
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Unread 08-26-2013, 08:48 AM   #13
Shlomi
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Today I took the transmission to a guy who is supposed to be a great master of mechanics, and by looking at the tranny he told me that there no significance to slop on the mainshaft, and that my problem is wear on all 1-3 gears teeth. That doesnt add up at all with my perception so far of the problem.
From your experience wear on the teeth would cause such a whining noise? The teeth are whole, but their edges have like very very small rusty holes. Ill try to post a pic.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #14
agear
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From a book I have.CLICKING AND CLACKING "A gear with a broken or bent tooth might make an annoying tapping or clicking sound as power is transmitted through this gear. It's unlikely to cause much noise in other gears, or when in neutral, however. You can probably reuse gears like that as long as the edges of the damaged tooth are not sharp."

WHINING AND HOWLING " Gear whine is common in many transmissions, and it is a sound that may not be curable.Some types of gear whine, especially those that appear suddenly , are related to transmission problems, but other types are simply the result of particular gear tooth shapes, oil, or wear. Whine caused by straight teeth on spur gears cannot be eliminated in these gear sets....
Sources of gear tooth damage include corrosion, vibration, and wear. Water in the gearbox oil attacks the steel surface of each gear, causing pitting and abnormal wear. Transmissions used on the street often do not get hot enough to burn off all of the water present from condensation, so this can be a particular problem in humid areas...........

Just a few selected sentences from my book. Just food for thought.
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1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 11:15 PM   #15
Shlomi
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Today I'm going to rebuild it, and I think I'll clean the teeth a little bit with a file or so.
I'll replace the tabbed thrust washer and I hope that will give me proper preload.
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