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Unread 03-19-2009, 03:55 AM   #1
BioTex
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A cure for bumpsteer maybe

I have a bit of bumpsteer, but what bothers me the most is when I hit the brakes. I'm pulled to one side or the other depending on braking or accelerating. Doesn't feel safe.
I was under the front looking things over, and it looks like there is an installed lowered pitman arm, just not quite low enough. So I'm checking it out, and I'm wondering if swapping the steering rod from bottom to top would help.
I don't know the names of all the front end parts, but I'm talking about the rod that hooks to the pitman arm, and the runs to the pass. side wheel. It bolts on from the bottom, and if it were bolted on the top, the rod (whatever it's called) would be more parallel to the (other rod).
Sorry, I'm trying to learn what they are called. I heard the term drag link, tie rod, etc...
Has anyone tried this to solve bumpsteer? Maybe mine is on backwards to begin with...

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Last edited by BioTex; 03-19-2009 at 03:56 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:28 AM   #2
CJ Chet
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I put a "flip kit" on mine. Works real good, no bump steer at all. You need to have your tie rod and drag link as parallel as possible.

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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:35 AM   #3
BioTex
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Why do you need a flip kit? Can't you simply just flip it? Are you talking about flipping at the pittman arm , or at the wheel end of the tie rod?
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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:38 AM   #4
Mike Romain
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You are describing a blown wheel bearing or bad tie rod end or drag link end. I would be jacking up the front wheels and seeing if they flop around loose in all directions (bearing) or are loose in a right/left way which would be tie rod.

Putting a pry bar under the main ball joints to check them for play is also called for.

Bump steer is when the steering wheel dives to one side when you hit a bump, not a directional change in the Jeep under braking or acceleration, that is a bad part.
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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:41 AM   #5
BioTex
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My thought was that if I brake, the fron end dips down, and when I accelerate it rises. This I thought would do the same as hitting a bump. Is that wrong?
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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:54 AM   #6
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
My thought was that if I brake, the fron end dips down, and when I accelerate it rises. This I thought would do the same as hitting a bump. Is that wrong?
Yes, this is wrong.

You are just describing soft springs and maybe bad shocks with the nose diving or even unadjusted or bad back brakes. Directional changes are bad parts.

Bumpsteer involves the steering wheel, it violently jerks to the side when you hit a bump if you have that problem. I have about 1/2" of bumpsteer on really hard bumps.
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Unread 03-19-2009, 07:25 AM   #7
CJ Chet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
Why do you need a flip kit? Can't you simply just flip it?
That won't work because those are tapered holes.
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Unread 03-19-2009, 07:55 AM   #8
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this is the tie rod flip kit I used, easy cheesy
http://www.ok4wd.com/index.php/catal..._rod_flip_kit/
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Unread 03-19-2009, 02:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
My thought was that if I brake, the fron end dips down, and when I accelerate it rises. This I thought would do the same as hitting a bump. Is that wrong?
No, that's not "wrong", but that's not what's most likely happening. If your drag link is at a downward angle and your suspension compresses (assuming the steering wheel is held still) the 2D cross-car distance (straight horizontal, not point-to-point) between the end of the pitman arm and the knuckle grows (since the drag link is a fixed length), pushing the passenger knuckle to the right. That's exactly what bumpsteer is. It can come back through the steering wheel - just depends on the path of least resistance. It can technically cause the conditions you are experiencing, but its less likely that your nose is diving far enough to cause this upon braking than it is that you may just have a worn component somewhere.

If your nose is diving and rising a lot, you may also have an unrelated worn shock problem on top of whatever else is going on that would amplify the problem. If you think its too much, replace the shocks. it will help you isolate the problem.

The tie-rod flip is a great solution for getting your drag link more horizontal when a dropped pitman arm is not enough as long as your spring configuration and drag link geometry will accomodate it. As CJ Chet said, the holes in your steering arms are reamed from the bottom up. Some tie-rod kits account for this and come with inserts so that the kit is a true bolt-in, but some of those kits are comprised of hybrid tie-rod ends that look like they are beefy, but actually have a rather small stud and joint.

If you aren't satisfied with the bolt-on kits due to the marginal increase in strength, the other solution (that I call the "real" one) is to use true 1-ton GM TRE's (that you can buy at any parts store) and ream out the steering arms from the top-down. JCR Offroad actually has all the part numbers listed on their site for the DIY'er. You'd just buy the ends and rod that you need for a CJ's crossover system instead of the driver's one shown for the inverted-t:

http://www.jcroffroad.com/Merchant2/...tegory_Code=S6
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Unread 03-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #10
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I'm going to have to rule out the shocks, since they are new Rancho's. The bumpsteer I'm experiencing is only when I hit the brakes fairly hard, or accelerate quickly. I looked at the link you provided, and I don't want to spend that much right now, so I will try the flip kit with reamer for around $85 that seventythree used. It should do the job. Before I order it, I want to make sure it won't put me in the same boat, only the other direction. That would suck! Thanks for the help.
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Unread 03-19-2009, 03:13 PM   #11
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Look at Goferit's tierod flip kit. Alot less$.
Check me if I'm wrong, but if you still have the straight OEM pitman arm, you should be able to flip it, but then the angle would be even worse.
Or, is it already flipped wrong?
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Unread 03-19-2009, 06:35 PM   #12
BESRK
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Some diving under hard braking is normal. So is front end rise under hard acceleration.. especially if you've got an engine with some power.

The closer to "horizontal" you can get with your drag link, the less bumpsteer you'll have. However, most rigs can tolerate a couple inches of drag link drop (angle) without much bumpsteer under normal driving... especially with the longer drag link used in crossover steering (like our CJs).
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Unread 03-20-2009, 05:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwolff View Post
Look at Goferit's tierod flip kit. Alot less$.
Check me if I'm wrong, but if you still have the straight OEM pitman arm, you should be able to flip it, but then the angle would be even worse.
Or, is it already flipped wrong?
I have a dropped arm, just not dropped enough.
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1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
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Unread 03-20-2009, 05:21 AM   #14
BioTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BESRK View Post
Some diving under hard braking is normal. So is front end rise under hard acceleration.. especially if you've got an engine with some power.

The closer to "horizontal" you can get with your drag link, the less bumpsteer you'll have. However, most rigs can tolerate a couple inches of drag link drop (angle) without much bumpsteer under normal driving... especially with the longer drag link used in crossover steering (like our CJs).
I will get some pics later, but also I will jack up the fron and check bearings and tie rods. It just occured to me I haven't done that yet. I have been pretty caught up in the engine swap.
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1986 CJ10-A SD-33 Diesel/727/np208
1971 800B with 345/T-19
06' TJ Rubicon, 4" R.C. springs, BFG/AT 35s M.C. 6" fenders, rockers and surrounds, Currie front & rear adj. tracbars, tattons DC rear shaft, adj. upper - lower CA's. Bilstein 5100's
YJ Buggy Build Current project. Stroker/FI ?
1990 MJ Comanche 4.0L AX15/np231
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Unread 03-20-2009, 05:46 AM   #15
twoleos617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Chet View Post
I put a "flip kit" on mine. Works real good, no bump steer at all. You need to have your tie rod and drag link as parallel as possible.

what size pitman arm do you have? Your 4" BDS kit uses a 4" drop pitman right? or, b/c you flipped your tie rod and drag link, did you get a shorter pitman to compensate?
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