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Unread 07-14-2003, 06:44 AM   #1
Popol
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clunking beyond annoying now..

Hello all.,

Im not certain if some of you remember, i posted a while ago about clunking (1979 CJ7 V8 Auto) when turning sharp right or left and moving forward slowly or reversing.

When I saw "Clunking" this is way way way too much of an uderstatement, I mean CLUNKING, as in turn sharp left maybe five metres on full lock, and its CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK, the vibration fills the whole car and shatters my teeth, not to mention the noise can be heard about 30 meters in any direction.

Also, I noticed when I put the car into gear either forward or reverse immediately there is now a clunk, so im guessing the play is being taken up.

Now I have taken it to 3 garages, consensus of opinion is that the driveshafts maybe warn, or maybe its the transmission, (front or rear they dont say) but all the garages are saying its not serious, leave it a year and change it (whatever it is that needs changing then).

My brother had an old 740 Volvo which clunked like this, he ignored it too until the propshaft snapped on a motorway doing 70 mph with him me and 3 girlies in it, first as it snapped it cut the brake lines, then it cut the fuel line, then it dragged along the motorway setting alight to the leaking fuel lines, we stopped by handbrake, ran v quick and 40 seconds later no volvo, just a iron shell with wheels and a "bit of fire damage" as the insurance sellers say.


So, to cut a long story, my father is coming to visit soon, im hoping he is going to take pity and help me out a bit, but before I know whats its going to cost, I need to know what it is.

What is it most likely to be? Front or rear transmission case? or both>? or warn driveshaft/propshaft/UV joints? Someone suggested getting underneath it when it clunks, bit dificult as car needs to be moving and only me able to drive it.

On the straight and narrow its fine when its moving, it really seems to clunk when under load turning sharp left or right, going forwards or backwards, clunk doesnt sum it up, I mean I can actually tell when its going to clunk before it does it, its like the car slows down fractionally, does this almighty clunk with major vibration, then loosens up until propshaft has rotated slightly then slows down and clunks again. any ideas?

Lastly, and this is probably the most important bit of all, I am in spain, parts are as diificult and expensive to find as for a ferrari, I kid you not.

So popping down to joe's quick fit tranny shop is a no no as is getting a replacement transmission, shipping alone is going to kill me, so I have to be 100% sure what it is, and then buy it outright, no refunds on old units, and when it arrives it has to be right, I cant afford to resend it back if its the wrong part, so can anyone tell me exactly what I should be looking for, and how hard is it to rebuild the transmission myself? it may be cheaper in the long run.




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Unread 07-14-2003, 07:57 AM   #2
mxg342
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Have you looked at the U-joints on the ends of the Axles. This would be the first place I would suspect because they seem like they are binding when you are making turns.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 08:48 AM   #3
rustyCJ
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you need to find better mechanics. climb under your jeep and turn your front driveshaft forwards and backwards but watch your front axleshaft u-joints through the back of the knuckles. if your shafts are turning on the u-joints a lot you need to replace them. an axleshaft u-joint letting lose on the highway isnt a safe thing.

if the axleshaft u-joints dont have play in them watch the driveshaft u-joints and see if they have play in them.

im guessing its your axleshaft though cause like state above its more noticable when turning.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 08:55 AM   #4
twmattox
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With an automatic tranny, the front axle is always turning. This places a lot more wear on the axle u-joints. Start by replacing them. If you want to play it safe, replact the u-joints in the drive shafts too.

You may want to double check the ball joints (lift the front of the vehicle, grab the tire on top and bottom). If you can wiggle the tire, the ball joints will need to be replaced too.

All told, these are fairly easy projects and should not take more than a weekend to complete.d
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Unread 07-14-2003, 09:24 AM   #5
rustyCJ
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Quote:
Originally posted by twmattox
You may want to double check the ball joints (lift the front of the vehicle, grab the tire on top and bottom). If you can wiggle the tire, the ball joints will need to be replaced too.
or that the wheel bearings need repacked/replaced.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 12:05 PM   #6
MR.CJ-7
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Quote:
Originally posted by twmattox
With an automatic tranny, the front axle is always turning.
How is it always turning? I have an auto trans. and with the transfer case in 2 Hi and the front hubs in freewheel the front axle isn't spinning.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 02:42 PM   #7
mxg342
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Quote:
Originally posted by MR.CJ-7


How is it always turning? I have an auto trans. and with the transfer case in 2 Hi and the front hubs in freewheel the front axle isn't spinning.
Two different animals we're comparin here.... The 79 has full time 4wd with the quadratrac system.. you however have major differences with the TF999 tranny.

You can see that it doesn't have turn out hubs in the pic.
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Unread 07-14-2003, 03:13 PM   #8
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Ahh. I didn't look at the pic that closely. Thanks for the info.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 06:58 AM   #9
Scrambler82
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Popol,

Have you found your problem ?

If you go under the vehicle and check your u-joints by twisting the driveshafts, listen to see if there is clucking from inside of the axle housing near the pinion shaft (input shaft).

Could be a pinion bearing or just wear.

LOL,
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:31 AM   #10
Popol
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still here dude, got berated by the wife when i got home last night so ended up driving miss dasiy to the local ice cream parlour, and of course ended up visiting relatives...

Today working the long shift, so not getting home till 11pm at which point ill be cracking a cold one and putting my feet up.

Tomorrow I will definately be taking a peek, I finish at 7pmn and lots of daylight left after that, so as soon as I get home I will take a peek tommorrow and let you know what I find, ill probably drag the digital still camera under with me show i can share the joys of discovery )

Thanks for all for putting some time into your replies, i know your eager to find out what horrors are lurking underneath, ill post as soon as I am able..
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Unread 07-16-2003, 03:23 AM   #11
Kilrain
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With any luck, the following may help explain your "clunking" and vibration problem.

Let me preface this by saying that I own a 78 CJ7, 304 V8, automatic transmission(Turbo 400), Quadratrac full-time 4 wheel drive, "The Golden Eagle" model. Damn, that was a mouthful, eh? Anyway, if your 79 has an automatic, it should also be the Turbo 400/Quadratrac combo unless it was a really late production 79 that bled over in the 80 production year or somebody changed it prior to you getting it.

That being said, if yours is equipped with the Quadratrac, fear not, the "clunking" and vibration you feel during tight turns at low speeds is a very common complaint and problem with this transfer case and it is called "stick-slip". I have felt it and would describe it more as a rough, vibrating, pulsating sort of chatter, maybe like driving over a dirt road that has "washboarded" out for you desert guys.

Anyway, let me ramble more.... . Because the QT was not as common in the CJs as it was in the full size Jeep models, most of the good info on this particular t-case is availabe on the full size jeep forums.....like www.ifsja.org. Anyway, I'll just skip to the info in the article I found on their site:

"Stick-Slip Condition.....When the brake cones in the Quadra-Trac limited slip differential stick and release, it is under a torque windup condition as in a conventional transfer case. Sudden release of the cones under this condition results in a constant, pulsating, grunt-like or rasping noise. This is a low-frequency noise that is most noticeable to the driver at slow speeds, such as when slowly turning a corner, or when maneuvering to park the vehicle.

Stick-slip noise will not occur when the vehicle is driven in a straight-ahead position. If a noise similar to stick-slip, but much louder, occurs in the straight-ahead position, the chain should be inspected for excessive looseness

Proper lubricant is important in preventing stick-slip noise. Use Quadra-Trac lubricant or equivalent only. Multi-grade, detergent-type oils must not be used. A stick-slip condition caused by improper lubricants may be corrected by completely draining the Quadra-Trac and low range unit (if equipped) and refilling with the specified lubricant.

NOTE: If a vehicle is not driven for a week or more, the stick-slip condition may occur when the vehicle is first driven. This is considered normal and should be of no concern, as the noise will usually disappear with continued driving.

Uneven tire inflation pressures and mismatched tire types and sizes will also cause stick-slip noise. All tires must be inflated equally and must be of the same size and type.
(End Quote)

The manual also goes on to say that stick-slip continues it may be corrected by checking the tire pressures, and changing the QT fluid. The manual also advises to (Quote) Drive vehicle in circles, both clockwise and counterclockwise for approximately 15 minutes to allow lubricant to circulate throughout differential NOTE: When driving the vehicle in circles do not turn the wheel to the stop position. (End quote)"

Anyway, I hope this helps and I bet it will if you do indeed have the QT transfer case. In fact, a quick way to determine if you do for sure is look in the glove box, there should be an "Emergency" t-case switch in there. If there is, you got a QT.
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Unread 07-16-2003, 09:52 AM   #12
rustyCJ
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kilrain
With any luck, the following may help explain your "clunking" and vibration problem.
thank you for the long insightful post about stick-slip and QT cases unfortunately if you would have read his post this is not his problem unless he has severely exagerated the symptoms. stick-slip does not cause severe vibration that......can shatter your teeth, nor is it so loud it can be heard......for 30 meters in any direction, and the key thing that tells it isnt stick slip is that it makes the noise when the vehicle is frist put into gear.
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Unread 07-16-2003, 10:49 AM   #13
Kilrain
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Mr. Rustycj,

I can't tell if you are being smart or being a smart @$$ but in any event, I stand by what I wrote. Unless he crawls under his rig and the u-joints are completely and obviously shot, he needs to have a look at what I wrote.

You wrote that stick-slip does NOT cause vibration that does not "shatter your teeth" nor can it be heard from "30 meters" away and I must disagree. First of all, the following is a textbook description of stick-slip:

Quote:
Im not certain if some of you remember, i posted a while ago about clunking (1979 CJ7 V8 Auto) when turning sharp right or left and moving forward slowly or reversing.
Secondly, if the vibration would truly "shatter your teeth" but is non-existant in a straight travel, especially under coast conditions, I fail to see how if could be a u-joint, damaged yoke, driveline, etc. Perhaps I am taking the term "shatter your teeth" a little less literally and believing that it is merely an expression of his obvious frustration at the problem ,
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Unread 07-16-2003, 11:05 AM   #14
Kilrain
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Mr. Rustycj,

I can't tell if you are being smart or being a smart @$$ but in any event, I stand by what I wrote. Unless he crawls under his rig and the u-joints are completely and obviously shot, he needs to have a look at what I wrote.

You wrote that stick-slip does NOT cause vibration that does not "shatter your teeth" nor can it be heard from "30 meters" away and I must disagree. First of all, the following is a textbook description of stick-slip:

Quote:
Im not certain if some of you remember, i posted a while ago about clunking (1979 CJ7 V8 Auto) when turning sharp right or left and moving forward slowly or reversing.
Secondly, if the vibration would truly "shatter your teeth" but is non-existant in a straight travel, especially under coast conditions, I fail to see how if could be a u-joint, damaged yoke, driveline, etc. Perhaps I am taking the term "shatter your teeth" a little less literally and believing that it is merely an expression of his obvious frustration at the problem.

As for the "30 meters" away, I know that when I first experience the stick-slip sensation, I thought my Jeep was coming apart. It really sounded like driving over a washboard and was, as a matter of fact, clearly heard from outside the vehicle.

Lastly, to make the assumption that it is not stick-slip simply because he hears a "clunk" when he shifts into drive is well.........an assumption at best. The other symptoms, in my opinion, sound like stick-slip to me. As you know, stick-slip is usually caused by improper maintenance, ie the fluid may need to be changed, the fluid may be low, he may need to force fluid into the cones by driving in a figure "8", etc. If that is the case, it would be reasonable for me to ASSUME that perhaps he does have a mildly damaged u-joint or, just maybe, his QT chain is stretched and due for replacement.

Lastly, as I said, I'm not sure if your comment about my post being "long and insightful" followed up by the "if you would have read his post" comment was meant to be sarcastic or just direct, but it came across as a little rude. Hey, whatever, I was just trying to throw in an idea for someone who was obviously frustrated. I will say, however, that you gave me a little ground to stand on with the "unless he has severely exagerated the symptoms" comment.....

And before I forget, sorry for the initial and partial repost, I just got out of bed.........
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Unread 07-16-2003, 11:21 AM   #15
Popol
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woah guys!! I'm just about to crawl underneath her now camera in hand, and yes indeed the car does have the Quadtrac option in the glove box (apologies if i forgot to mention it, im new to jeeps and forgot it was an optional component).

Ill post in an hour or so with some pics and let you know what I find, thanks for all the useful information...


P.S> A Slight chatter is not what I would call this, it really is a loud clunk clunk clunk, best way to describe it is if something is under tension then releases and clunks something as it turns... and I mean a LOT of tension, the clunk is awful, wife is refusing to drive in it (this good or a bad thing?) anyway ill let you know what I find, Im just pputting my grease monkey hat on now..

Last edited by Popol; 07-16-2003 at 11:24 AM..
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