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Clay's Build Thread

556K views 5K replies 145 participants last post by  Skerr 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been contemplating posting a build thread for awhile. After viewing some of the current ones I got really pumped! I also figured that as long as I was going to be asking for help fixing stuff I might as well have it in the thread... so here we go. My 16 YO son, Clay, and I are building his CJ5. It's a 79 that I acquired in a boat/Jeep trade nearly 2 years ago. I got it for myself but I don't fit well, so I got a 7 and gave him the 5. He is really stoked about building the Jeep and I can't think of a better father/son project. Clay will be doing the work while I supervise ;). The 5 has a 258, T18A, D20 with axles from an 85 CJ7, D30 and AMC20. Gears are 2.72. We will probably go to a 3.73 in the future. It will get the RC 2.5" lift, Procomp 9000 shocks, and a urethane bushing kit (already purchased). It also has a FG tub which will require a bit of glass work. We had already completed the frame resto when we discovered that we didn't do it right. So we took it back down to bare metal again, finding some rot and a few cracks. We should have those repairs made in the next couple of weeks. After that the frame gets POR-15 and black implement paint. In the meantime, we'll be working on getting the engine painted and installing the MC2100. In these pics Clay is prepping the T18A for paint. He wanted to paint it silver with a red stripe, but I put the Kibash on that! So he settled for a silver tranny and red shift levers... when we get there. He plans to paint the rig International red (tractor paint) with a silver tub floor. Hmmmm... maybe! It MIGHT look good. We just finished watching the entire Season 2 of the Rat Patrol... so guess what HE wants to mount up!?!? :laugh:
 

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#3,752 ·
Dadamsnv said:
Scary about the house man. That's not good at all. I've been forced to consider getting ADT or something for my hood :/

In other news, I have the carb drain out on my rig over a few days to a week, and the accel pump has no pressure on idle, so I'm gonna say its normalish :confused:
It's not normal for the fuel bowl to be empty after a few days, or even a week. My WAG- gravity , and seeping past the needle valve, thru the fuel pump back into the gas can.

Fuel pump, a interesting idea. The engine sat for 3 years. It's very possible the diaphragm as dried out. It could be pumping enough at a higher rpm, but barely enough at idle. AMC fuel pumps, pump enough at idle for some gas to return to the tank via the filter. So a quick check would be install the filter, and the return back into the gas can. While the engine is running, pull the return line out of the can and have a look to see if there is gas coming from the line.

The fuel pump should pump a given amount of gas in a set period of time while cranking. unfortunately I don't know that amount or the time.

Bill
 
#3,758 ·
Once I have been educated you can bet I will scream it to the world! Supposedly leaking through the jets, but how can you stop that? I'm going to be quiet and let my buddy show me... cause I know he will!

Been keeping up with all your carb issues Scottster and I was thinking vac leaks as well for some of your issues. I had a ***** of a time getting my 2100 to not leak at the metal adapter between the carb and manifold. I ended up red necking it and jb welded the spacer to the manifold and never had a problem after that. Think I must have pulled the carb 4 times, replacing the gasket every time, before I jb welded it. You should buy a decent vac gauge when you get a chance. I swear by them for setting timing, mixture, and diagnosing engine problems. Dont get the little one that u mount in the dash, get a bigger one that you "plug in" when working on the jeep. The big ones have the vac reading broken down in smaller increments and you can watch the needle movement better.
I had the same issues you did on my 7, but I fixed that with gaskets. I took my carb and gaskets off my 7 and installed tham on Clay's 5, but no improvement. But then I was working ABOVE the adapter, and the leak proved to be BELOW.

I will definitely get a vacuum gauge. Maybe check one out today, but depending on cost I may have to wait a bit.

I'll second MoC's notion on the vac gauge for tuning

I've gotten so dependent on mine, I've hooked it up temporarily inside the cab, so that I can monitor the vac while driving.

Some day I'll get around to installing a permanent vac gauge.

Matt
Thanks for the pic, Matt. What kind/s of information will you get from a vacuum gauge in the cab? If vacuum drops, what is it signifying?
 
#3,756 ·
Been keeping up with all your carb issues Scottster and I was thinking vac leaks as well for some of your issues. I had a ***** of a time getting my 2100 to not leak at the metal adapter between the carb and manifold. I ended up red necking it and jb welded the spacer to the manifold and never had a problem after that. Think I must have pulled the carb 4 times, replacing the gasket every time, before I jb welded it. You should buy a decent vac gauge when you get a chance. I swear by them for setting timing, mixture, and diagnosing engine problems. Dont get the little one that u mount in the dash, get a bigger one that you "plug in" when working on the jeep. The big ones have the vac reading broken down in smaller increments and you can watch the needle movement better.
 
#3,760 ·
I'll second MoC's notion on the vac gauge for tuning

I've gotten so dependent on mine, I've hooked it up temporarily inside the cab, so that I can monitor the vac while driving.

Some day I'll get around to installing a permanent vac gauge.

Matt
I did the same thing. Its cool watching the gauge as you go up and down hills, or accel and decel. I'd like to get a permanent one mounted some day as well

The gauge basically lets you know how hard the motor is working. As vacuum falls, you are using more fuel for more power and getting worse economy. The more vacuum the gauge shows, the better your fuel economy. The gauge will train you how to get the best fuel economy form your jeep
 
#3,759 ·
I have a great link at home that I will send you when I get back Scott. You can use the vac gauge to determine all sorts of problems. As far as in cab goes I guess it just let's you keep a eye open for developing problems. Once you get it tuned and see what your vac reading is it gives you a base to watch. Vac goes down or does not hold steady you know something is going on. A steady drop could show a vac leak has developed and how the needle acts on acceleration and idle can tell you about all sorts of valve problems and worn rings.
 
#3,761 ·
Dadamsnv said:
I did the same thing. Its cool watching the gauge as you go up and down hills, or accel and decel. I'd like to get a permanent one mounted some day as well

The gauge basically lets you know how hard the motor is working. As vacuum falls, you are using more fuel for more power and getting worse economy. The more vacuum the gauge shows, the better your fuel economy. The gauge will train you how to get the best fuel economy form your jeep
I'm gettin one too I think.
 
#3,762 ·
Spent a little time this morning with the carb and adapter. I think at this point all I need to do is go and get some gasket material and mount it up. Here is a common problem with mounting the MC2100. I had the same issue on my 7, and I have heard of this issue with other JF members.

The first thing I did this morning is file both sides of the mounting surface of the adapter flat. I don't know if it is milled or cast, but it is dependent upon the gasket mashing enough to fill all the voids. There was a lot of voids.


This is after I filed this side. Be sure to keep the file flat and move it around 360* as you work. I'm not digging deeply into the aluminum, just enough to make it flat from side to side.


In this picture you can see the phenolic gasket (black, plastic gasket) I am using. This gasket came from the Ford truck I snagged my MC2100 for my 7. Apparently, it is a factory application. If/when you get a MC2100, be sure to get the gaskets that are with it. There are several combinations of mounting up the adapter with the phenolic gasket. This gasket will make a seal to the bottom of the carb, but you need to install it correctly. It also has a top and bottom, and I'm not smart enough to know which is which! You can see all of the cut out areas on the gasket, and I assume this is the surface that goes against the carb base. It would make sense that it allows the carb to function correctly with vacuum.


Here is a picture of the phenolic gasket installed with the adapter plate. I installed it with the cut out areas facing down toward the intake. Look closely and you can see the gap on the side of the carb between the adapter and and the phenolic gasket. This will create a huge vacuum leak.


Here is the gasket installed with the cut out areas up against the carb base. These areas match the bottom of the carb, and it would seem that this would assure proper vacuum functions. If anyone knows this is incorrect, I would appreciate the feedback. Notice the good seal around the edges of the carb. With the proper paper gaskets this would not leak.




I was thinking about making an all-in-one adapter that would eliminate the need for three gaskets. I was thinking I would make it out of this piece of aluminum, but on second thought, I'm afraid it would warp once it was torqued down to the intake manifold. I believe it would be beneficial, but it needs to be thicker stock. Maybe I can get someone to mill one!?


I hope this will help anyone mounting up a Motorcraft 2100.
 
#3,766 ·
Don't get a gauge from HF. I did, and the inner workings are sloppy. Tap it lightly and the needle moves almost 1" of vacuum. Was hard to adjust with the needle moving around so much... I had a couple from Auto Zone, and they seem much better.
 
#3,767 ·
No worries there, Rick. My affair with HF is over and done. I will not give them another cent for 10# of their crap. I have a HF torque wrench that I do not trust, and I mean I felt like I was going to far on the bearing cap bolts during the RMS replacement. The HF torque wrench is 1/2" drive, but I checked it against my Craftsman 3/8" drive, and the Craftsman started clicking immediately, which the HF NEVER DID!

No Sir. You guys can have every last "tool" HF sells.
 
#3,768 ·
Sorry, Rick. I walked into the house with a cloud over my head. :mad:

Here is the latest stuff on Clay's Concubine Carburetor! Tightened the manifold bolts. Installed new gaskets. Installed carb. Primed carb. Wham-O!!.... started right up. Sounded better immediately. :) Tried to adjust idle. No go. Listened with a rubber hose (per Bill) for vacuum leak, but my ears are defective? I'm half deaf? Don't know what I'm hearing? IDK, but I couldn't determine a vacuum leak. I think there was just too much noise around me. Tried propane again. BINGO!! Worked this time. I must have gotten rid of "enough" leaks for the propane to have an effect. Coming from where the intake and exhaust manifolds bolt together. uh-oh... :eek: :( Tightened down the bolts, and when I got to the two bolts "down inside the intake", this is what I got. One of the studs pulled out. :crying: :umbrella: :tinfoil: W-A-A-A-A-Y back in the early part of this build thread I had drilled off-center, trying to drill out a broken stud in the exhaust manifold. AJ ended up using an epoxy on it as the heli-coil would not take on that side. The epoxy has apparently burnt off, which explains all of the smoke Clay and I were seeing. I need another exhaust manifold!!

In the pics...

First pic is the gasket designed for the factory app on the 2100. $4 at AZ with warranty. I have an old one of these factory gaskets that is like heavy cardboard.

2nd pic is the factory gasket along with the factory phenolic gasket, which I did not use. Don't have bolts long enough for all of this! Does raising the carb have any benefit? Notice how they are designed the same.

3rd is the stud that came out when I put a socket on it.

4th is the area it came from.

I am done, done, done for the day. I am going to read a book, a fiction, with bullets and explosions, where bad guys get killed and the good guy wears a white hat. It should not have mention of Jeep in the story. I quit.
 

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#3,769 ·
Skerr said:
Sorry, Rick. I walked into the house with a cloud over my head. :mad:

Here is the latest stuff on Clay's Concubine Carburetor! Tightened the manifold bolts. Installed new gaskets. Installed carb. Primed carb. Wham-O!!.... started right up. Sounded better immediately. :) Tried to adjust idle. No go. Listened with a rubber hose (per Bill) for vacuum leak, but my ears are defective? I'm half deaf? Don't know what I'm hearing? IDK, but I couldn't determine a vacuum leak. I think there was just too much noise around me. Tried propane again. BINGO!! Worked this time. I must have gotten rid of "enough" leaks for the propane to have an effect. Coming from where the intake and exhaust manifolds bolt together. uh-oh... :eek: :( Tightened down the bolts, and when I got to the two bolts "down inside the intake", this is what I got. One of the studs pulled out. :crying: :umbrella: :tinfoil: W-A-A-A-A-Y back in the early part of this build thread I had drilled off-center, trying to drill out a broken stud in the exhaust manifold. AJ ended up using an epoxy on it as the heli-coil would not take on that side. The epoxy has apparently burnt off, which explains all of the smoke Clay and I were seeing. I need another exhaust manifold!!

In the pics...

First pic is the gasket designed for the factory app on the 2100. $4 at AZ with warranty. I have an old one of these factory gaskets that is like heavy cardboard.

2nd pic is the factory gasket along with the factory phenolic gasket, which I did not use. Don't have bolts long enough for all of this! Does raising the carb have any benefit? Notice how they are designed the same.

3rd is the stud that came out when I put a socket on it.

4th is the area it came from.

I am done, done, done for the day. I am going to read a book, a fiction, with bullets and explosions, where bad guys get killed and the good guy wears a white hat. It should not have mention of Jeep in the story. I quit.
I will sell you my exhaust manifold if you want stock.
 
#3,783 ·
Thanks, Trent. I will let you know if I need it.

Sorry to hear of your frustrations, I know how those can add up in a hurry. I hope things start going in the right direction for you, but I think you've got the right idea though, time to walk away from the project for a bit and get your head back in the right place.
It'll get straightened out. I already know that, but I have to pout every now and then! :eek:

see you back at it tomorrow:D
You're sick...

hey, aren't you the one who said I should braze my old manifold. I feel your pain.
...and probably psychotic too! :D

Sorry you are frustrated. I get really bummed out about mistakes I make or how much crap my heep is in some days....then others things go well and I can't wait to get back into the garage. =)

Keep in mind your thread is one of the best on here in my opinion and I am sure it is an inspiration for many of us. I think it is one of the five greats.
Well Thank You, Sir!! I am humbled, and I appreciate the inspiration.

Git to work, Skipper!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No love! You can say that since your Jeep is "dun". NOW what are you going to do? Why don't you invite me up there for a fishing excursion??

Yeah man, your thread kicks *** :thumbsup:
Thanks, Dad... means a lot to me.

Lol.. no offense taken! I know those days, been there myself many times... some time away to relax, calm down, and get your mind off it helps - that's what helped me when I was getting frustrated putting my trans in.. the next day I walked out there, tried it, and it slid right together!
Funny how that kind of stuff happens, but I have experienced it too. Thanks for the big heart Rick. :thumbsup:

Scott I'd like to recommend a movie to watch that will help you deal with mistakes and stress. "Act of Valor" it's based on our Navy Seals and it kept me on the edge of my seat. I watched it 3 times and some sceines several times. There's just something about large amounts of brass rolling off the side of a mini gun with tracer rounds completely blowing the you know what off of drug dealers that warms my heart, it will yours too. Might want to keep the kids away from it cause there's a good bit of killing and some bad words.

Hope you all get back on track this weekend. I'm sure you will.
:D :D :D (nothing else to say!) Beth wrote it down.

Random thought... I think I will go to the fish house and get a few pounds of fresh crab. Then we'll have a good 'ol crab boil. After we engorge ourselves on Blue Crab, I will take all the shells and busted pieces and dump them in the corner of my property, right behind my sorry neighbpr's back door! That makes me giggle! :rofl:

Ok my friend, to take your mind off the manifold mess ponder on this for a while.

I want to make a radiator fan shroud for my 360. I have 1 factory V-8 shroud on my DD, I don't want to ruin it. Can it wax the heck out of it like they do to molds when making boats, then coat it with fiberglass resin then lay cloth on top and recoat to build thickness.

Remember I'm lazy.

Thanks buddy, Bill
Yes, you can. Your "process" is not correct, but you're not far off. I will PM the details or call you. Working Sat and Sun, off Mon and Tues.

Here's a site for some modern, inexpensive mold release agents. These would work better than wax, but Johnson's Paste wax will do the trick.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/moldrelease.html

There are a couple different threads on making shrouds, TKFiremans thread being the latest. One of the other threads the guy made a frame out of wood, and built off that.

Shrouds need to made off a pattern, I have a perfect pattern.

Bill
If a tree doesn't fall on it. :rolleyes:
 
#3,774 ·
Sorry you are frustrated. I get really bummed out about mistakes I make or how much crap my heep is in some days....then others things go well and I can't wait to get back into the garage. =)

Keep in mind your thread is one of the best on here in my opinion and I am sure it is an inspiration for many of us. I think it is one of the five greats.
 
#3,777 ·
Lol.. no offense taken! I know those days, been there myself many times... some time away to relax, calm down, and get your mind off it helps - that's what helped me when I was getting frustrated putting my trans in.. the next day I walked out there, tried it, and it slid right together!
 
#3,778 ·
Scott I'd like to recommend a movie to watch that will help you deal with mistakes and stress. "Act of Valor" it's based on our Navy Seals and it kept me on the edge of my seat. I watched it 3 times and some sceines several times. There's just something about large amounts of brass rolling off the side of a mini gun with tracer rounds completely blowing the you know what off of drug dealers that warms my heart, it will yours too. Might want to keep the kids away from it cause there's a good bit of killing and some bad words.

Hope you all get back on track this weekend. I'm sure you will.
 
#3,779 ·
Ok my friend, to take your mind off the manifold mess ponder on this for a while.

I want to make a radiator fan shroud for my 360. I have 1 factory V-8 shroud on my DD, I don't want to ruin it. Can it wax the heck out of it like they do to molds when making boats, then coat it with fiberglass resin then lay cloth on top and recoat to build thickness.

Remember I'm lazy.

Thanks buddy, Bill
 
#3,780 ·
Ok my friend, to take your mind off the manifold mess ponder on this for a while.

I want to make a radiator fan shroud for my 360. I have 1 factory V-8 shroud on my DD, I don't want to ruin it. Can it wax the heck out of it like they do to molds when making boats, then coat it with fiberglass resin then lay cloth on top and recoat to build thickness.

Remember I'm lazy.

Thanks buddy, Bill
That certainly doesn't sound like the lazy way out :laugh:
 
#3,781 ·
Dadamsnv said:
That certainly doesn't sound like the lazy way out :laugh:
There are a couple different threads on making shrouds, TKFiremans thread being the latest. One of the other threads the guy made a frame out of wood, and built off that.

Shrouds need to made off a pattern, I have a perfect pattern.

Bill
 
#3,787 ·
Wax and grease remover, but you can do the same thing by taping waxed paper all over it. Also, more modern materials provide the release agent without a wax build-up.

you sound like your in better spirits
meh... no time to pout this week!

I'd love to see how it turns out. I just think that level I custom work is awesome, and people who pull it off are awesome. They certainly seem less than lazy to me. :D

Hats off to you
Bill won't actually do the work. He's supposed to clean the garage. He'll walk out there and look at it, then end up in the recliner. It's a ritual! His wife will build the shroud... prolly use Bill's bald head too!
 
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