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Clay's Build Thread

556K views 5K replies 145 participants last post by  Skerr 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been contemplating posting a build thread for awhile. After viewing some of the current ones I got really pumped! I also figured that as long as I was going to be asking for help fixing stuff I might as well have it in the thread... so here we go. My 16 YO son, Clay, and I are building his CJ5. It's a 79 that I acquired in a boat/Jeep trade nearly 2 years ago. I got it for myself but I don't fit well, so I got a 7 and gave him the 5. He is really stoked about building the Jeep and I can't think of a better father/son project. Clay will be doing the work while I supervise ;). The 5 has a 258, T18A, D20 with axles from an 85 CJ7, D30 and AMC20. Gears are 2.72. We will probably go to a 3.73 in the future. It will get the RC 2.5" lift, Procomp 9000 shocks, and a urethane bushing kit (already purchased). It also has a FG tub which will require a bit of glass work. We had already completed the frame resto when we discovered that we didn't do it right. So we took it back down to bare metal again, finding some rot and a few cracks. We should have those repairs made in the next couple of weeks. After that the frame gets POR-15 and black implement paint. In the meantime, we'll be working on getting the engine painted and installing the MC2100. In these pics Clay is prepping the T18A for paint. He wanted to paint it silver with a red stripe, but I put the Kibash on that! So he settled for a silver tranny and red shift levers... when we get there. He plans to paint the rig International red (tractor paint) with a silver tub floor. Hmmmm... maybe! It MIGHT look good. We just finished watching the entire Season 2 of the Rat Patrol... so guess what HE wants to mount up!?!? :laugh:
 

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#1,970 ·
If the soft top hardware consists of side rails, it may be a Bestop Supertop. It's mounting hardware consists of a flat strip for the sides and back, a strip for across the top of the windshield frame, and 90 degree bent corner strips.

The doors are typically 2-piece, meaning that they can come apart at the centerline, and can be used as half-doors.

I have this set-up on my 'glass CJ5. I like this better than screwing in snaps as fasteners.

The 3/16" thick flatbar does sound a little thin, but it would work depending on how much stress it would ever come up against. Personally, If I can imagine correctly what you're planning on doing, I would opt for at least 1/4" thick angle iron, perhaps as thick as 3/8". It's already bent, and is pretty strong.

It's OK to weld these to the frame. I welded a similiar scenario many years ago on my '77 CJ7. It was a frame-welded bumper that was used to pull me out of the mud at mud runs, by a backhoe.

Just watch out for the fuel tank!! An "empty" tank is VERY DANGEROUS!! Ask me how I know...

Rich
 
#1,974 ·
SonicR1 said:
The way I was planning on mounting my bumper was to cut rectangular holes in the 2x4, and slide it over the frame. I was going to do the same in the rear, removing the crossbrace, figuring the bumper is stronger than that anyway!
This sounds like a good idea, but, if the ends are welded shut they will hold water like crazy. I would say cut the hole like you say. Then fill it in with the flat stock, like a pocket.

On the rear, I'm concerned the bumper would not stick out far enough from the tub, not offering enough protection.

I think Jim is correct. 3/16" x 2" for the rear isn't strong enough. When you told me the other night. I thought you meant the 3/16" stuff was for filling in the angled cuts on the end of the bumpers.

I would use 3/8" x 3" flat stock thru bolted in the frame. And use tube crossways inside the frame rails, for the bolts to go thru. This is the same way a winch should be mounted. Use the existing holes in the frame. There should be 2 holes per side.

The flat stock should be long enough to allow use of both holes and extend 2" (1.5" would also work) past the end of the frame. Drill the holes in the flat stock, and bevel the ends where they will be welded to the 2"x4", Bolt them on.
Hold the 2"x4" tube in place and tack weld.

Remove and weld it up (gussets would be good also, the 2" clearance makes room for them). Don't forget, when putting the 2" reciever on it should pass thru the tube, and be open on the tub side. This gives 2 welding points on both sides of the reciever. It also allows for different length hiches, and water to drain.

Bill

On edit, a even better thing to do with the flat stock would be to make them long enough to pass thru the 2x4, and come out the front 3". Then weld another 3/8" piece along side, just on the face of the bumper. With a 3/4" hole, this makes for the best point for pulling when used with a clevis. The same could be done for the front (tie the tow points into the frame) the front tow points on the Khaki Jeep are done this way.
 
#1,975 ·
I would use 3/8" x 3" flat stock thru bolted in the frame. And use tube crossways inside the frame rails, for the bolts to go thru. This is the same way a winch should be mounted. Use the existing holes in the frame. There should be 2 holes per side.

The flat stock should be long enough to allow use of both holes and extend 2" (1.5" would also work) past the end of the frame. Drill the holes in the flat stock, and bevel the ends where they will be welded to the 2"x4", Bolt them on.

Bill
I think this is the best solution Scott, welding is great until the day you have to take it off. Don't think you will need to take it off in you lifetime? Weld it and see what life brings you. :D
 
#1,976 ·
Here's how I attached my rear crossmember...



There's a matching piece on the opposite side (bolt head side) of the frame that sandwiches the frame. Also, there are small steel sleeves inside the frame for the bolts to slide through, so that the frame doesn't collapse when the bolts are tightened.

Rich
 
#1,978 ·
Scott, Rich....I am only referring to welding to the frame.

Also, I would cut the sleeves short 1/2 the thickness of the frame metal. If the thickness is 1/16" then I would cut the sleeves 1/32" short. This will allow the frame to compress slightly providing friction from clamping the metal together, a stronger connection.
 
#1,981 ·
Sounds like the same brand of tub. What was sloppy, where you added some reinforcement?

Rich
 
#1,982 ·
Sounds like the same brand of tub. What was sloppy, where you added some reinforcement?

Rich
It's like the top was bent over the edge/lip of the bottom. The overlapping lip isn't flush/tight to the bottom half. Don't know how they did it, but I know how they DIDN'T do it. So we applied a single layer of 3/4 oz mat to that edge, just to be on the safe side. We don't want the top half of the tub to blow off once we make the jump to hyperspace!
 

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#1,983 ·
We've had colds running through the house all this past week. I had it for awhile, but the kids got it bad. Two of 'em (including Clay) are running 102 temps. This is the 5th day I've had a ose bleed. Had my blood pressure checked, and it's good. So maybe dry air? FG dust?? Stayed home from church this morning. Kids are watching Captain America. Mom is too!! So I'm on the Jeep, and this is what's happening today.

The first two pics are foam injected between the double-walled floorboards. The PO drilled holes for some reason or another. The wood in between is completely rotted out. I'm NOT going to cut it open and do surgery, so sprayed the foam between to eliminate flexing.

The second pics are the inside of the tub where we had cut oout old rotted wood. It was way back in the thread when we did this. I need to blend the edges. I'm not putting wood back in here, so I have to build it up with glass. This heavy roven is all that I have. Thought I had an unopened pack on the shelf. So "doing" with what I have. More pics to follow...

Here is a website, posted by Jeff Scherb on his tub trailer build thread, for everything you will ever want when it comes to fiberglass work. This is a good link and one that you should save.

Later...
http://www.uscomposites.com/index.html
 

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#1,984 ·
Thanks to scoutboater, making some peanut butter. Or mayonnaise! Or Goop! Whatever... Using this to fill voids. Pics of success, or failure, later...


Poured polyester resin into old ProGlas can.

Cut some glass fibers into roughly 1/4" pieces. Don't know how much... just add to taste. These strands of fiber come off of the roven glass when it starts to unravel.

Added some Cabosil (Fumed Silica) to thicken the mix up. Add Cabosil until you get to the consistency you want.

I am adding cream hardener because it is colored. I don't know if cream hardener works with polyester resin! Some I'm only doing a test plot. You can tell if it is mixed with the color. It mixed up VERY quickly, which makes me think this isn't going to work! If it doesn't, I will dig it out and do it again with clear hardener. I'll let you know...
 

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#1,985 ·
Does cream hardener work with polyester resin? Yes! I did the other side with clear hardener, and they came out the same. While still tacky, I put the roven in place. Mixed up some resin and blended the edges of the floor pan to the repair I did earlier in the thread. I will cover all of this with 1 1/2 oz mat, including the floor that I filled with expanding foam. Then I think we are done with the glass.

Please feel free to interject on cages, bumpers, etc. I'm not trying to blow past anything to divert critiques. I need y'all's input... especially on the square tubing. I like the idea of it with the mental picture I have, but I'm mental!!

On the pic of the firewall, what PO holes can I fill?

And just an overall pic, because I think it's cool!
 

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#1,990 ·
I missed your post, Bill. I agree... I don't like the looks. I liked what TJ-Joe posted up, and I am sold. We'll go with the DOM.
 
#1,991 ·
The last picture is cool,

I"m concerned the seats might be to big.
Clay 6' 4" wow.
Most inportant, I hope the family gets over the sickness soon.

One more picture. of the square tube buggy. (for FYI its built on a shortened F-150)

Bill

O and Scott, my neighbor is leaving a week from tomorrow. I still have to pull the 3.54's out of the 20.
http://mijc.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/browns-and-dukes-july-4-2008-036.jpg
 
#2,000 ·
Thank, Bill, for the family wishes. Can't seem to get much of a break around here. Colds usually go through our house a couple of times. Just so it's all over for our Thanksgiving camping trip!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll add the Grand Prix to our list of possible donor cars. Trying to talk Clay into a Ranger split bench... then he coulld have a fold-down console where he hold hands with his sweetie... some day! :D

I would also like to add that Bill is a real blessing to our family. He has very generously donated the carriers and R&P (3.54s) to Clay's build. Now we can toss the 2.73s!! Thank You, Bill!!! On top of that, Bill is so powerful and respected, he talked his neighbor into driving them down here for me!! :D

Back to the seats. If the backs are to wide, roll bar issues could arise. I have seats from a 2000 Pontiac Gran Prix in my 7. Great seats and comphy. The outside edge rubs on the roll bar. The seats in the Khaki 7 are from a S-10, they also rub in the same place.

Darn I wish you were closer. You could have the seats with the mountain and rising sun, from the plow Jeep. Seat covers would be a plus. Hahaha.

Bill
I think that bada$$ cowboy... you know the one that the sticker describes as having owned that Jeep... was a sissy! Seat covers would be imperative!!
 
#1,993 ·
DOM is a type of ERW, which costs more because it requires more steps to manufacture.

ERW = Electric Resistance Welded - steel bar is cold rolled into a tube and then contuously welded.

DOM = Drawn Over Mandrel - takes ERW tubing and draws it throught dies and over mandrels, which makes it more dimenionally consistent, and then is annealed to improve the tensile strength and hardness.

ERW is generally more brittle than DOM - it can crack when bent in a bender or split in a hard impact and so is not recommended for cages (and is banned for competition cages). Back to the old standard: don't cut corners on safety.
 
#1,999 ·
Thanks, Jim. We have looked all through that sticky. Lots of ideas there. We still have a "plan" that exceeds just a roll cage. We want to add a mod to provide more utility, but we're keeping it secret for now! :shhh: The cage we have in mind won't be like yours... at least we're not planning it to be that advanced. The ideas we have we think are cool, but who knows if we really get there! You know how plans change...
 
#1,995 ·
[: don't cut corners on safety.[/QUOTE]

And I agree with you.

Did you read somewhere in my post where I said to use ERW, or HERW, over DOM.

Scott has already decided to go with the DOM.

Since you brought up the ROPS, Caterpillar Tractors Home is where I live. I know a couple people who work at their proving grounds. When they check the ROPS, they roll the tractor down a hill. IIRC they roll 5 or 6 times. I dont know if the ROPS are solid steel or tube. It would interesting to see.

Bill
 
#1,996 ·
Back to the seats. If the backs are to wide, roll bar issues could arise. I have seats from a 2000 Pontiac Gran Prix in my 7. Great seats and comphy. The outside edge rubs on the roll bar. The seats in the Khaki 7 are from a S-10, they also rub in the same place.

Darn I wish you were closer. You could have the seats with the mountain and rising sun, from the plow Jeep. Seat covers would be a plus. Hahaha.

Bill
 
#1,997 ·
:confused: I don't think that I stated or implied that you thought ERW was OK, Bill. You posted, "a basic description of DOM vs ERW" with no context, which I interpreted as you asking if either would do. Since some people use ERW for cages to cut costs, I wanted to stress the importance of safety and did not want to see Scott buy ERW when he saw the price difference without understanding that there is a safety difference.
 
#1,998 ·
I don't know what happened to the cut and paste, Its not there. Your post on this was good. Anyway it was a basic description.

Bill
 
#2,001 ·
Scott, do you have the factory non tilt riser for the drivers seat? On my Jeep with the GP seats, I shortened the riser by 1.5"

Of the seats I have, non of them were bolt in. Your 3/16' flat stock will come in handy. The seats in my full sized Blazer (its actually a GMC Jimmy) have seats from a 80's era Buick Regal. these are some nice seats. The pick and pull may allow you to trade the seats you have, for others. the smaller the car the seats come out of, the better they will fit. Clayton looks really happy sitting in his seat. Again, 6' 4" wow. how tall are you?

When the front bumper was discussed, I liked the idea of the pocket like RIX suggested and what I added. Just welding tabs on the 2x4 may stick the bumper out to far. You mentioned no holes in the rear of the frame, all the better, clamp the flat stock ( with the holes in it) to the frame. Then drill the frame. The flat stock holes, for best results, should have a vertical slot in the forward most holes, for final adjustment.

Have a great week my Friend, and Thank You, Bill
 
#2,002 ·
In the two or so years we've been building this thing, I have come a very long way! I was greener than green when we started. I don't have any idea what color I am now! Clay's Jeep had the low-back buckets in them, which I thought was out of... something... surely not a Jeep. They were rough, and I tossed them. I didn't know that was a factory style. I wouldn't have kept them regardless, but I would have kept the brackets had I known what I was doing. I thought the factory seat brackets from the buckets in my 7 would fit, but they're not even close! So we'll have to fab something.

I'll try tomorrow and see if the JY pwner will swap seats. He has been pretty good to me since I started scrounging in his yard.

Clayton is 6' 4". Wifey is 6' 6". So is Jake, my 19 YO. I'm 5' 8"! I have to stand on a box to kiss her!! :eek: Got two more squirts who promise to be big.

The rear frame horns have holes, but I also have a rear crossmember welded in place. The FRONT frame horns DO NOT have holes. I could drill them easy enough, but it looks like the holes would be too close together for real strength.

Holler at ya tomorrow...
 
#2,003 ·
wow I missed allot, just catching up and the tub looks great, as to the debate over round or square just remember how strong an arch is compared to a flat bar with two right angles, for the bumpers clay can weld the square tubing closed well enough to serve as a tank for water or air, also when mounting remember the rear bumper has to be far enough away from the body to keep the tire from hitting the soft top.

your work looks great and the end looks like it is in sight;)
 
#2,004 ·
Those seats don't look much larger than the Corbeau seats I have in mine. I had to move them in a little, the driver seat was against the side, and the rain would drip from the top down onto them and run down the bolster and soak my leg. The fore/aft positioning doesn't look to bad either. Have him get in and out a few times, especially when wearing boots. If it seems like it is a pain to get out from catching his foot on the opening and the seat, move it back a bit. I will say, they look a little lower, but it all depends on how tall the seat bottom is, and what is comfortable.
 
#2,005 ·
Thanks, Rick. Have a look at this thread I started. Best pics of the seats. They are sitting on the floor. Once we fab brackets it's going to move them up some.
 
#2,006 ·
Latest Treasures...

Seats out of a Grand Am.. These will work better, and we'll be able to incorporate the cage into the mounts. Gonna have to clean them up. Anyone know if seat covers are available for these?
 

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#2,007 ·
And this tilt column out of a 3/4 ton Chevy. I didn't notice the pocket for the column selector when I pulled it. I was pretty bummed! I don't know if junkyards are the same all over, but I assume they are. This yard is dirty! Fireants, paper wasps, Goathead, Spanish needle, Beggar weed... all over. You have to pick the seed pods off your clothes when you get done! Rotted carpet, mildew... next time I need to remember to bring a dust mask. The owner gave me the column for $20. Rough, but it will clean up.
 

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#2,008 ·
I don't see a columne selecter. Do you meen the hole for the key.The plastic ring will take the place of the rusty one on the steering wheel.

The seats look good. I'd google for a
Gran Am forum for the seat covers. or Just generic ones.

Bill
 
#2,009 ·
I don't see a columne selecter. Do you meen the hole for the key.The plastic ring will take the place of the rusty one on the steering wheel.

The seats look good. I'd google for a
Gran Am forum for the seat covers. or Just generic ones.

Bill
Ima Idiot! Thanks, Bill
 
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