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Unread 07-29-2013, 07:13 AM   #5161
Skerr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
I wonder if Clay forgot the spring between the arm and pivot, the one that keeps the rod in place.

Bill
Check your phone for a text.
I watched him assemble the spring and ball. He placed a dab of grease on the ball to hold it in place. The spring was loose and would fall off. I didn't watch him to completion, however, and I was wondering if he had the TO bearing on backwards??

Getting ready to haul it to town.

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Unread 07-29-2013, 10:16 AM   #5162
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It is at the shop! I am disgusted. I feel like I'm quitting, but I need this done. It has been too long already. The shop that I use is a good one. They know their business, and I never have to go back to get it fixed again. I can't imagine what it will cost to have this work done. Here is the list that they will complete for me.

*= priority

-Inspect the clutch... find out what we did wrong.*
-Weld/repair/replace the bellhousing.*
-Install factory water temp sending unit. This is for the factory gauge. It involves drilling and tapping a boss on the head.
-Replace pulley on pwr steering pump.*
-Find leak on Pwr steer pump (I think the pressure line is leaking, I think we manipulated it too much).*
-Install O2 sensor in exhaust.*
-Connect exhaust system to collector.*
-Connect tach wire.
-Connect CEL.

Now to pull out the boat and check it out. We are going to the Okefenokee to camp on the 14th.
cimg0576_1.jpg

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Unread 07-29-2013, 01:04 PM   #5163
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Don't feel disgusted, you guys did a great job and there is nothing wrong with letting the shop complete a few odds and ends. If I had the extra money my jeep would spend most of its time at a shop being completed.
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Unread 07-29-2013, 11:01 PM   #5164
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Hey Scott, I'm really sorry about the clutch I'd send you a bear hug if it could fit in a box. Sorry buddy.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 04:54 AM   #5165
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Thanks, Guys. I appreciate the vote of confidence.
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Unread 08-01-2013, 11:16 PM   #5166
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The shop where Clay's Jeep is sitting (L&J) called me at work today. The Chief Mechanic, Warren, told me they hit a snag. They have welded up the bellhousing and reinstalled everything, but the clutch still doesn't want to work!! So he has asked me to bring him the old flywheel and clutch set from the 258/T18 combo. The theory is the the flywheels are different thicknesses allowing for more travel in the clutch fork. Where the clutch set and flywheel in the 258/T18 worked fine, we now have a 4.0 engine with a 4.0 manual flywheel and a CJ clutch set. Possibly, the 4.0 flywheel is thinner, allowing the clutch fork to travel forward to the point that it hits the bellhousing flange. That would explain the large amount of slop that is now in the fork and the need for a longer rod. I still have the 258 flywheel, but it doesn't have the notches for the CPS. My AZ boss said to place a small washer under the pivot ball to lift it up, taking up the extra slack, but I don't see how that would be a good fix. More tomorrow...
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Unread 08-02-2013, 05:45 AM   #5167
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Skipper how are thhe bushings on your bell crank? These are plastic pieces and give out over time and can cause a lot of what you maybe experiencing.
http://www.quadratec.com/jeep-replac.../cj-clutch.php

I am talking about 8,9 and 10 in the pic
cj.jpg

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Unread 08-02-2013, 07:26 AM   #5168
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The whole crank could be replaced. There is some slop, but it isn't the kind of slop I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking the clutch fork in your hand and moving it forward/backward.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #5169
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Ok'd here's the problem. Scott is using the 4.0l flywheel with the tone ring and a CPS. The problem is the 4.0l flywheel is 1/2" thinner than the 258 wheel, Scotts mechanic believes this is the problem, after research I agree. The tone ring can't be swapped to the 258 wheel.
Possible solutions.
1.) advance adapters bell housing
2.) move the CPS to the balancer.
3.) extend the pivot point ( the ballbearing) of the clutch arm to move it towards the engine.
4.) a AA longer throw out bearing.

I prefer extending the pivot point of the clutch arm. 2 reasons for this, it's cost effective, and most likely the quickest way to get Clays jeep on the road.
Your thoughts on this problem please!

Thanks, bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
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1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #5170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Ok'd here's the problem. Scott is using the 4.0l flywheel with the tone ring and a CPS. The problem is the 4.0l flywheel is 1/2" thinner than the 258 wheel, Scotts mechanic believes this is the problem, after research I agree. The tone ring can't be swapped to the 258 wheel.
Possible solutions.
1.) advance adapters bell housing
2.) move the CPS to the balancer.
3.) extend the pivot point ( the ballbearing) of the clutch arm to move it towards the engine.
4.) a AA longer throw out bearing.

I prefer extending the pivot point of the clutch arm. 2 reasons for this, it's cost effective, and most likely the quickest way to get Clays jeep on the road.
Your thoughts on this problem please!

Thanks, bill
This makes sense to me. As long as there is enough thread on the pivot stud to shim it with washers, it should still be a solid repair. Maybe worst case scenario cut the stud of the pivot and weld the top part onto a longer bolt?
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1978 CJ5 258/T177/D300, '86 D30/D44 WT axles, 'glass tub windshield frame, and fenders, 31x10.5 BFG A/T, TDK galv'd frame - DD and weekend toy

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ri...8-cj5-1223197/
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Unread 08-02-2013, 12:13 PM   #5171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlass327 View Post
This makes sense to me. As long as there is enough thread on the pivot stud to shim it with washers, it should still be a solid repair. Maybe worst case scenario cut the stud of the pivot and weld the top part onto a longer bolt?
If Clay's clutch fork pivot is like mine, the actual pivot ball is a 1/2" ball bearing that sits in a cup on a boss in the bellhousing. This can be worked around, but it is not as simple as adding a few washers...



Here's a thread on the subject of pivot balls and how to install them...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...89/index2.html
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Unread 08-02-2013, 01:10 PM   #5172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO_Ken View Post
If Clay's clutch fork pivot is like mine, the actual pivot ball is a 1/2" ball bearing that sits in a cup on a boss in the bellhousing. This can be worked around, but it is not as simple as adding a few washers...



Here's a thread on the subject of pivot balls and how to install them...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...89/index2.html
Exactly right, Ken. I spoke with EJ from Novak. I can't say enough good stuff about EJ and the staff at Novak for their willingness to help me with Jeep conversion issues. I bought my pilot bushing from EJ, he explained how to install, and he was beyond patient and polite. In this case, where I was buying nothing, he worked through the whole scenario with me and made the most logical, cost-effective suggestion. The thinner flywheel causes the TO bearing to sit farther back, requiring more clutch travel to engage. The clutch fork actually makes contact with the edge of the square hole from which the fork extends, stopping any more motion to engage the pressure plate. EJ recommended a longer TO bearing to take up that slack. When I explained to my mechanic (Warren) he grasped it immediately and went on the prowl. Let's see what happens.

To Bill's credit, I had phoned him to ask for help finding the answer. If ya'll don't know Bill, he is like an encyclopedia! And his Smart Phone makes him beyond compare! Anyway, Bill had come back to me with the suggestion of the longer TO bearing before anyone else.

In all the reading about the 4.0 swap I did not see anything relating to this specific problem. How is everyone else getting around it? I'm pretty sure I did not miss a step. Maybe it is inherrant of a T18/4.0 conversion???
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Unread 08-02-2013, 03:08 PM   #5173
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Not inherent to the T18, the tranny doesn't make a difference.

Like SLO-Ken said I wouldn't place washers behind the ball. After modifying the existing ball mount by beefing it up, I would use a adjustable one. After drilling and tapping.

image-4139552784.jpg



image-380952168.jpg

GM vehicles used these.

Bill
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1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 04:43 PM   #5174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
The shop where Clay's Jeep is sitting (L&J) called me at work today. The Chief Mechanic, Warren, told me they hit a snag. They have welded up the bellhousing and reinstalled everything, but the clutch still doesn't want to work!! So he has asked me to bring him the old flywheel and clutch set from the 258/T18 combo. The theory is the the flywheels are different thicknesses allowing for more travel in the clutch fork. Where the clutch set and flywheel in the 258/T18 worked fine, we now have a 4.0 engine with a 4.0 manual flywheel and a CJ clutch set. Possibly, the 4.0 flywheel is thinner, allowing the clutch fork to travel forward to the point that it hits the bellhousing flange. That would explain the large amount of slop that is now in the fork and the need for a longer rod. I still have the 258 flywheel, but it doesn't have the notches for the CPS. My AZ boss said to place a small washer under the pivot ball to lift it up, taking up the extra slack, but I don't see how that would be a good fix. More tomorrow...
Scott,

This guy used a T5 bellhousing, modified for the sensor, 4.0 clutch and pressure plate, Luk #01017 so I suspect it has a throw out bearing for that application. I suspect he used the T5 fork, so I am curious if the throw out bearing is too short.

http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=538049

Also, was the backside of the fork hitting the bellhousing?

I noticed this guy had a fork with some clearance...



http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/cjt18/

An image search turned up this photo, the thread "CJ T-18 trans swap" is dead, but it looks like he clearanced the fork.







.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 09:49 PM   #5175
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The top clutch fork is for a T150. In the article, the author states that it is factory punched to clearance a bolt head. He goes on to say that if you don't clearance the fork on the T18 it may not allow the pressure plate to release. That isn't our problem. Our fork is hitting the housing. I didn't get to talk to Warren this afternoon, so I don't know how far he got. Now we have to wait until Monday. Never thought about clearancing the fork... that may have been all we needed to do. Also, if Warren hasn't already fixed it, I will look into the TO bearing for the 4.0 clutch set. Thanks, Dave.
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