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Unread 09-17-2012, 05:30 PM   #4216
MoC
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Jeep looks GREAT Scott.


I am curious about the paint. I remember a page or so ago you said it was scratching really easy and not the dust thing. Any ideas whats going on with that. Maybe a hardener issue?

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Unread 09-17-2012, 05:32 PM   #4217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
... If I had a vehicle today I would borrow a trailer and get it into the alignment shop.
Save the money and align it yourself - you and Clay could do it in an hour! All it takes is a couple of 4' boards, a couple of bungees, and a tape measure. Jack up the front end until the tires clear the ground (best to use jack stands for safety). Strap the boards horizontally to the front tires with the bungees, so some sticks out to the front and some to the rear. Use the tape to measure the distance between the boards just in front of and just behind of the tires. The front should be 1/8" narrower than the rear (toe in). Loosen the clamp bolts on the tie rod and then use a pipe wrench to rotate the tie rod to lengthen or shorten it until the toe in is correct, then tighten the clamp bolts back down (use a rag between the pipe wrench's teeth and the tie rod to protect the paint). You can then lengthen or shorten the drag link to get the steering wheel straightened.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 07:18 PM   #4218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8pitcher View Post
Can't wait to see that tire carrier finished I need some more ideas.
Clay ran into a roadblock this evening. He needs a 1 3/4" metal hole saw, and he was headed to Lowes to get one, but he has a Trig test Wednesday, so Mom put the kibash on the trip. It will have to wait until after Wednesday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoC View Post
Jeep looks GREAT Scott.


I am curious about the paint. I remember a page or so ago you said it was scratching really easy and not the dust thing. Any ideas whats going on with that. Maybe a hardener issue?
I'm thinking hardener too. Although I followed the directions on the label, it is not hard. If you remember, I had the same issue with the frame paint. Could be me. Could be humidity. Could be both??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ-Joe View Post
Save the money and align it yourself - you and Clay could do it in an hour! All it takes is a couple of 4' boards, a couple of bungees, and a tape measure. Jack up the front end until the tires clear the ground (best to use jack stands for safety). Strap the boards horizontally to the front tires with the bungees, so some sticks out to the front and some to the rear. Use the tape to measure the distance between the boards just in front of and just behind of the tires. The front should be 1/8" narrower than the rear (toe in). Loosen the clamp bolts on the tie rod and then use a pipe wrench to rotate the tie rod to lengthen or shorten it until the toe in is correct, then tighten the clamp bolts back down (use a rag between the pipe wrench's teeth and the tie rod to protect the paint). You can then lengthen or shorten the drag link to get the steering wheel straightened.
Thanks, Joe. That's clear as a bell. Here is what I discovered...

Tightened everything down in the front end related to steering. I found I had not torqued the ball joints. I can't get to the lowers, but the uppers are torqued properly. I had three or four good pulls before they reached torque, so I have to assume I left the lowers the same... just sort of tight. I now have the tires aligned as best as I can get them. I took it down the road. The steering felt so much better just heading out of the driveway. I got up to 30 MPH on the hardtop, and it would suddenly dive to the side, left or right. Not vaguely wander, or ease off to one side, but suddenly try to shoot across the road! Wow! Drew my nuts completely inside my body cavity!! Turned around, stayed at 20 MPH, and pulled back into the shop. Got Clay to turn the wheel while I watched up front and discovered the whole steering box is moving significantly. Which is very bizarre, considering I torqued it down using new grade 8 bolts. I found one bolt completely missing... so maybe I missed it, and the related captured nut is not present in the frame. Great. I guess a brace is in order. Is the diving issue related to the steering box, ball joints, or a combo? Also, the Jeep has a defined "limp" while going down the road. Maybe a bent rim, out of balance, etc. Gotta get the new rims on.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #4219
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But it was SO FRIGGIN' COOL going down the road with the lights on!
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Unread 09-17-2012, 08:02 PM   #4220
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I looks great!!! The new wheels and tires will be icing on the cake.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 08:11 PM   #4221
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I hate that nuts-in-the-body-cavity feeling...I used to get it, every time I jumped out of a helicopter. It is a helluva rush though, I gotta admit.

I envy you guys....mine is still in a million pieces.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 08:21 PM   #4222
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Ok Scottie, 2 choices.
1. Turn the wheels to the outside , see of you can tighten the lowers with a open end wrench.

2. The preferred method, take everything apart , caliper, hub and rotor,and spindle, pull the axle shaft. And torque the nut (s).

Steering braces are around $60 . Clay could make 1, I'm making one for myself . Tomorrow. For about free.

This is what I'm starting with.



image-2242531141.jpg

The last 2 pictures are A store bought one.

image-2370618853.jpg



image-3155779580.jpg

If you have the 2.250" ID tube it would take a couple hours.

Bill
image-2784161173.jpg   image-2539826099.jpg  
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #4223
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I dunno Scott.... if Clay is gonna take it on the highway I think i would take a few steps back and tear it down and check the torque on all front end components.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 09:07 PM   #4224
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Did you torque the sleeve ( the proper name escapes me) under the top nut to the proper torque?

I think you need to check every bolt pertaining to steering, stopping, suspension, and driveline before driving.

My $.02

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 12:09 AM   #4225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle71 View Post
I looks great!!! The new wheels and tires will be icing on the cake.
Thanks Turtle. I'm looking forward to the icing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLynes View Post
I hate that nuts-in-the-body-cavity feeling...I used to get it, every time I jumped out of a helicopter. It is a helluva rush though, I gotta admit.

I envy you guys....mine is still in a million pieces.
You'll get there Grasshopper... patience! We all have to have something to do when we finish, so we'll be watching yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Ok Scottie, 2 choices.
1. Turn the wheels to the outside , see of you can tighten the lowers with a open end wrench.

2. The preferred method, take everything apart , caliper, hub and rotor,and spindle, pull the axle shaft. And torque the nut (s).

Steering braces are around $60 . Clay could make 1, I'm making one for myself . Tomorrow. For about free.

This is what I'm starting with.



Attachment 474308

The last 2 pictures are A store bought one.

Attachment 474311



Attachment 474313

If you have the 2.250" ID tube it would take a couple hours.

Bill
2 1/4" ID tubing?? That's hefty! I was thinking 1" EMT??

Quote:
Originally Posted by VACJ7 View Post
I dunno Scott.... if Clay is gonna take it on the highway I think i would take a few steps back and tear it down and check the torque on all front end components.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Did you torque the sleeve ( the proper name escapes me) under the top nut to the proper torque?

I think you need to check every bolt pertaining to steering, stopping, suspension, and driveline before driving.

My $.02

Bill
Yeah, yeah... I know.
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But the right word at the right time... "Hey, give me a little hug!" That's the difference between lightning and a harmless lightning bug!
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Unread 09-18-2012, 12:11 AM   #4226
TJ-Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Tightened everything down in the front end related to steering. I found I had not torqued the ball joints. I can't get to the lowers, but the uppers are torqued properly. I had three or four good pulls before they reached torque, so I have to assume I left the lowers the same... just sort of tight. I now have the tires aligned as best as I can get them. I took it down the road. The steering felt so much better just heading out of the driveway. I got up to 30 MPH on the hardtop, and it would suddenly dive to the side, left or right. Not vaguely wander, or ease off to one side, but suddenly try to shoot across the road! Wow! Drew my nuts completely inside my body cavity!! Turned around, stayed at 20 MPH, and pulled back into the shop. Got Clay to turn the wheel while I watched up front and discovered the whole steering box is moving significantly. Which is very bizarre, considering I torqued it down using new grade 8 bolts. I found one bolt completely missing... so maybe I missed it, and the related captured nut is not present in the frame. Great. I guess a brace is in order. Is the diving issue related to the steering box, ball joints, or a combo? Also, the Jeep has a defined "limp" while going down the road. Maybe a bent rim, out of balance, etc. Gotta get the new rims on.
Could be a number of things, but my bet is alignment. If this happened when driving straight on a smooth surface, It's most likely improper toe in - if the front is wider than the back, it will get awful squirrelly, especially as you speed up - try aligning it as I described.

The steering box flexing on the frame could make it worse - you definitely need to have all all the bolts attached - if not, it could easily tear off the frame (ask me how I know, LOL). Personally, before I made a brace, I'd buy a M.O.R.E. heavy duty steering box mount, or have Clay weld up one like it.

As for the ball joints, jack it up, grab the tire on top and bottom and try to tilt it up and down - if it moves, the ball joints are shot or loose. Even it they don't move, I'd follow Bill's advice to torque the lowers. I'd also torque and lube everything on the front end, including the spring u-bolts.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 12:45 AM   #4227
Skerr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ-Joe View Post
Could be a number of things, but my bet is alignment. If this happened when driving straight on a smooth surface, It's most likely improper toe in - if the front is wider than the back, it will get awful squirrelly, especially as you speed up - try aligning it as I described.

The steering box flexing on the frame could make it worse - you definitely need to have all all the bolts attached - if not, it could easily tear off the frame (ask me how I know, LOL). Personally, before I made a brace, I'd buy a M.O.R.E. heavy duty steering box mount, or have Clay weld up one like it.

As for the ball joints, jack it up, grab the tire on top and bottom and try to tilt it up and down - if it moves, the ball joints are shot or loose. Even it they don't move, I'd follow Bill's advice to torque the lowers. I'd also torque and lube everything on the front end, including the spring u-bolts.
Thanks, Joe. Looks like that will be tomorrow's project.


Does anybody have a pic of the their steering box mount installed. I'm talking about the heavy duty aftermarket mounts. If so, would you post up a pic?
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Unread 09-18-2012, 06:06 AM   #4228
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The heavy duty steering box mount goes on exactly like the factory mount , with the exception of 1 extra bolt that goes in the frame cross member . 1 hole needs to be drilled, approx. between the 2 existing bolts.

The 2.250" tube is the part that goes around the steering box on The round part just above the pitman arm. That's the 2 pieces of 1/2 tube in my picture. 4 tabs will be welded to the 1/2 tube for the bolts.

I wonder if Jim has a pattern for the mount, he was thinking of making them.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 06:54 AM   #4229
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This is my mount on my 5.


image-1001761088.jpg



image-1150214108.jpg



image-1405022030.jpg

And a better picture of the brace that goes on the box.


image-3525782676.jpg

Haha, good morning sunshine. Get busy, you have a boat load of stuff to do today.

On edit, that's good about the breast. .

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 07:09 AM   #4230
8pitcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog
This is my mount on my 5.

And a better picture of the brace that goes on the box.

Haha, good morning sunshine. Get busy, you have a boat load of stuff to do today.

On edit, that's good about the breast. .

Bill
Do you have manual or power steering? Or does it matter for the brace?
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1976ish cj5 304 t18 d20 2.5" lift

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